Injectors.... clean or replace?

Hi Folks,

For those of you with experience; would you suggest to either replace or have injectors cleaned.

I've been having rough starts in the morning and will be doing a number of maintenance items shortly. I have 250+k on the vehicle and will change glow plugs also.

I got a price from a shop that will clean the injectors for $50CDN a unit. However, the issue is what do drive etc... in the meantime if I go this route.

Your input is greatly appreciated.

I think with those miles, I would replace.

Snowman, you can get an equivalent, new Bosio nozzle from the Kerma for not a lot of money. I can't see fooling around with nozzles at that mileage.

Thanks weed and DD,

I'll have to look up what the stock size is for the injectors. And where the best place is to get em. Any difference between Bosio and stock? Besides the probable price diff.?

Cheers!

Stock size for a manual is .184. There are lots of people who have upgraded that are selling those for $50 or less a set. If you go with something like PP520s expect to see an increase of ~20 HP and 40 lb/feet of torque.
Check my sources page for those who are selling--I bought from Kerma and had a great experience.
Cheers, and good luck!
-BB

the PP357 would be comparable to a stock 5 spd car. The Sprint 520 nozzles would be a nice upgrade but you may take a hit in fuel economy.

Snowman said:

I've been having rough starts in the morning and will be doing a number of maintenance items shortly. I have 250+k on the vehicle and will change glow plugs also.

I got a price from a shop that will clean the injectors for $50CDN a unit. However, the issue is what do drive etc... in the meantime if I go this route.

Click to expand...

Injectors (bodies + nozzles) are probably fine.

I suspect you need a set of glowplugs. That should fix the rough cold starts. Also hook up VAG-COM and see where your injection timing is at. Is your Check Engine Light (CEL) on? (Might have a glowplug-related code stored.)

Do these things first before deciding to touch the injectors.

Good luck.

Thanks BB,

I've been reading REAMS of posts on injectors and I'd like to try to get some clear unbiased (read factual) answers on the following.

1. If I change to a larger non-stock size of nozzle, is it possible to have pre-mature failure of another component? (i.e. turbo, clutch etc...)
2. If answer to 1 above is yes, then which component(s) may be affected.
3. Is it necessary to have new injectors pop tested or only new injectors that are larger than OEM/stock?
4. If new injectors are not pop tested what if any adverse condition may result?
5. Is it possible to pop test injectors myself? Would special tools be required?
6. What exactly is pop testing?
7. Is anyone willing to lend me $80,000? (hey, I thought I might catch someone off guard! A guy can try can't he?)

Thanks again!
Ben

Hi n1das,

Yeah, I'll definitely do the glow plugs first. I know that I have a glow plug CEL thrown. I've got a bunch of Maintenance items to complete that are overdue, but I've traveled so much lately (coupled with cold temps.) That I haven't gotten to it. I just got back from 2 separate trips to France and Germany and probably going to Italy in the next few weeks. But I guess at this rate, driving will not be my biggest concern anyway

In answer to your questions:
1) Of course, whenever you add power you add the possibility of something breaking quicker. Turbo, clutch, driveline, head gasket, you name it...
2) Just answered that. Realize however that the chance goes up. Take your turbo for example. Say it has a .0001% chance of failing at any given mile. Add just injectors and you go to perhaps .0003%. Still a very small number, but you're using more fuel and more boost, and thereby are causing more wear on componants.
3) No, but some people think it's a good idea. I have personally not done this--but later in the summer I will pop test my PP520s.
4) Only if you have a bad injector--which is not very often. And most likely the only problem would be a bad spray pattern which could cause your fuel economy to suffer.
5) Not that I know of, ask someone else
6) It's where they test the injector to see at what pressure the injector pops (or sprays fuel).
7) No.

Also, tdiparts.com has a great special going on for glow plugs right now. 4/$60 USD.
Cheers,
-BB

I'd like to add that by installing largel nozzles the first thing that will need replacing is the clutch. with just injectors you're not putting a large increase in the demand on the turbo. Blowing up a turbo takes more then just injectors and would be a distant second compared to a clutch.

Just throwing this thought out. Have you done Diesel Purge yet?

Hi Deafbug,

I just did a search on Diesel Purge to find out what the heck it was. Very interesting product! I'll see if I can find it locally first, but I'm very willing to try it out.

I don't imagine there's any risk to pre-mature IP failure?

Thanks!

"Premature IP failure", at 250k? I used LM Diesel Purge during the last fuel filter change by priming the new filter with it. I think I noticed a difference in the smoothness of revving, and it certainly has done no harm.

Another thing to consider is your injection timing. Have you by any chance had a timing belt replacement recently? I had a shop do my second timing belt replacement, and they mis-set the timing. Cold starts were worse after that. I took it in, they re-set the timing, and it was back to the way it should have been. For my latest TB job, I had JasonTDI do it, and he set my timing a little on the advanced side, as most everyone here does if they do their own TB's. Cold starts have been even better with the slightly advanced timing.

Dorado said:

"Premature IP failure", at 250k?

Click to expand...

Notice that that's Kilometers there, Yankee. 250k km = 156k miles, which would be premature IP failure...

My local TDI tech, who ralley-races TDIs (yeah, go figure...) persuaded me I would like the Sprint 520 injectors when he did my TB. And he claimed that with the improved spray pattern of the 520s, I get more power but the same mileage...

What the heck.. I bit. The performance is dramatically improved. Where before it was common for me to floor the accelerator when merging into the beltway to work, now I have no need. Not chirping the tires, but any means, but if you need to scat a bit more quickly, the 520s are a nice mod... AND... he was right. My mileage is right at the same - maybe down on avg. 1 MPG. Was routinely getting 49-50, now routinely getting 48-49 with flirts at 50.

I _have_ had the clutch slip twice on me (86K miles on the car) and was hoping to make it to the next TB change before the clutch. Prob. wont happen. BUT, I DID get the car used, with 32K, and I dont know how the prev. owner drove it. It was 2 yrs old, so he put 16K miles on it a year, so that means a lot of hiway travel, but does not indicate what kind of intown driving was done... all that is largely irrelevant. People here dont love the stock clutch on the 02s anyway....

No the timing belt wasn't changed recently. I adjusted the timing a couple of months ago when it was much too retarded and was much better. Now I'm getting something similar (white smoke on start-up), but it's also happening in warmer temperatures (i.e. +5C) after sitting for 4 hours or longer. I'm going to check the timing again, but I have to re-install vag-com on my new laptop.

Re 'chance of TB failing at a given mile' is not constant or even a linear function. It's a 'bell-like curve' with low probability early in life, less likely after manufacturing flaws have revealed. TB 'lifetime' is probably 1 sd right of peak of most reliable.

I should have also stated that the timing belt wasn't changed a long time ago either. Less than 30,000km

if you would do a nozzle upgrade I would suggest no one else but SMOG on here or Brian Harrison for them, Brian is also a great source for parts as well http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/roseland/VWParts.htm

Two nights ago as I was driving back from the airport (at night), I noticed I was smoking quite a bit on acceleration. I've never seen that before. It's not chipped or modified in any way except the EGR is shut-off. But this is new.