Mixing biodiesel with diesel #2

Fahrfuwerfuelen · Dec 8, 2004

The only biodiesel available in my area is B100. I'm considering mixing in biodiesel with diesel #2. Any thoughts on the proportions? Any preference as to which fuel should go into the tank first?

Dave_D · Dec 8, 2004

In Hawaii you should be able to use B100 without any fears of gelling. You can mix B100 and diesel #2 in any proportion you should desire. I burn B100 here in the summer and am using about B35 now. I add my PS DFS first, then my #2 and finally the B100.

Puebla · Dec 8, 2004

B20 is 20% Biodiesel and 80% Diesel #2, B35 is 35% Bio/65% #2, B50 is 50% Bio/50% #2, and so on and so on.....
You can mix as you wish, in Hawaii all you have to worry about is water/condensation in your fuel. At first glance it may appear that there is little or no water in the fuel. If you check early in the morning when the temperature is lowest, you'll see the condensation on the sides of the container/tank that the fuel is being stored in.
In California there are TDIClub members here in California that run straight B100 with no complications. I have read on this thread that 50/50 is a perfect mix.

Good luck and don't forget to add some type of fuel conditioner and at least 4 points of cetane.

JAY GARRETT, Los Angeles, CA. hazw8st@onebox.com

Wally · Dec 8, 2004

The only reason for you to mix is if you are looking to save money. The land of Aloha never gets within 35 degrees of gelling temps, with three exceptions, Haleakula, Mona loa/kea. So if you work nights at an observatory, you would need to mix. If you do, there are no worries, mix as little or as much as you like in any proportions.

You'll wanna get a hold of Shuan over on the Kahului side of Maui; he's been making and running bio in a mess of vehicles over there for years. In fact, there are even biodiesel rental available on Oahu now too. Try www.bio-beetle.com or better http://www.biodiesel.com/

or juest wait and he'll find you.

Aloha from the really beeg island

Thrwngstns · Dec 8, 2004

When blending I prefer to put in biodiesel first. But as others have said, why blend if B100 is available and low temps aren't an issue. Prices for biodiesel should be very competitive with diesel in January after the tax credits start.

RC · Dec 8, 2004

Track,
What are you driving?
On Oahu, what is the price of B100 and #2?
Why are you considering a blend?

Fahrfuwerfuelen · Dec 8, 2004

Thanks for the responses.

I haven't been by Pacific Biodiesel yard yet so I don't know the current price of B100. I thought about blending bio and D#2 because of concerns that VW won't warrant engines run on Bio in the US. But from reading the forums, it seems as though the issue is not Bio or Petro diesel, but bad fuel. In which case, it doesn't matter what type of fuel being used.

RC-

So far, I've found #2 diesel at $2.519/gallon. I have also seen it for a few cents more all the way up to $2.73/gallon, depending on the retailer.

I have a 2005 Jetta 5 speed and just took delivery on 12/03/04.

Aloha,

Old Navy · Dec 8, 2004

B2, 49 Cetane diesel was $1.899 this morning when I filled the wife's Jetta with 14 gallons after 597 miles.

B100 was $3+ per gallon from same outfit.

SUNRG · Dec 8, 2004

Track - I've seen the ASTM test results for Pacific BioDiesel and it is great stuff. I would definitely use their B100 straight as blending it would only reduce the quality of your fuel.

Our refinery in VA (www.virginiabiodieselrefinery.com) is modelled after the Pacific BioD Refinery. We've been running B100 in both of our PD-TDIs and they run/perform very well.

Good luck!

tadc · Dec 8, 2004

When blending I prefer to put in biodiesel first.

My understanding is that BD is slightly denser than #2, so BD should be added after the #2 for optimum mixing. In real life I dont think it matters too much, since the fuel pump is constantly recirculating and mixing.

As far as VW and the warranty goes, it doesn't matter whether you're using B1 or B100, VW dislikes it equally. And as mentioned above, they don't warrant anything related to bad fuel, whether it's bio or dino.

BioDiesel · Dec 9, 2004

Track,
Pacific Biodiesel sold B100 for $2.31/gallon this summer on Maui. You should be in for a nice surprise.

ofhs93 · Dec 9, 2004

Yeah I was going to say...I thought someone had said earlier in the year that b100 was actually selling for LESS than D2 in Hawaii

Fahrfuwerfuelen · Dec 9, 2004

Thanks, Biodiesel.

I haven't been by the Pacific Biodiesel plant on Oahu yet, but I did e-mail them with some questions. The next time I need to fuel up, I'll see what they charge. It would be interesting to find out if it sells for less that D#2. Besides, I could exhaust french fry odors since they make their biodiesel from used cooking oil.

Maui usually has much higher gas prices than Oahu, so the $2.31 price for the biodiesel seems unreal. Regular unleaded on Oahu sells for around $2.32 and Maui is probably close to $2.80. So maybe the biodiesel on Oahu will sell for less.

Aloha

Fahrfuwerfuelen · Dec 9, 2004

B20 is 20% Biodiesel and 80% Diesel #2, B35 is 35% Bio/65% #2, B50 is 50% Bio/50% #2, and so on and so on.....
You can mix as you wish, in Hawaii all you have to worry about is water/condensation in your fuel. At first glance it may appear that there is little or no water in the fuel. If you check early in the morning when the temperature is lowest, you'll see the condensation on the sides of the container/tank that the fuel is being stored in.
In California there are TDIClub members here in California that run straight B100 with no complications. I have read on this thread that 50/50 is a perfect mix.

Good luck and don't forget to add some type of fuel conditioner and at least 4 points of cetane.

JAY GARRETT, Los Angeles, CA. hazw8st@onebox.com

Any recommendations on what type of conditioner I should use and how often it should be added?

Aloha,

SUNRG · Dec 9, 2004

don't forget to add some type of fuel conditioner and at least 4 points of cetane

a cetane boosting fuel conditioner is almost always a great idea, but the cetane of Pacific BioD is already an amazing 61.5! i would not add a cetane boosting conditioner to their B100.

to view the Pacific BioD ASTM test results sheet click here.

a great additive that would address the possibility of moisture or other contaminants getting into your fuel (without boosting cetane) is the Stanadyne Performance Formula Junior
http://www.stanadyne.com/new/ppt/showfile.asp?id=719
http://www.stanadyne.com/new/ppt/showfile.asp?id=501

and, Stanadyne is the only additive manufacturer specifically recommended by VW.

Fahrfuwerfuelen · Dec 10, 2004

Thanks,

I'll try to find a retailer here in Hawaii who sells that product. Although, Hawaii doesn't always carry products easily found on the mainland.

I already discovered that it is virtually impossible to find a 505.01 oil other than buying it from the dealer at an inflated price. I hate buying anything from a dealership!

I've made some contacts with mainland distributors of Elf Excellium DID 5W40 oil, as it meets the VW standard. Of course I'll have to pay a premium to have it shipped here.

Aloha,

Puebla · Dec 10, 2004

Stanadyne.

JudyJetta · Jan 2, 2005

B20 (Was: Re: Mixing biodiesel with diesel #2)

don't forget to add some type of fuel conditioner and at least 4 points of cetane

Is there a recommended additive if you're running B20?

I have switched over rather conservatively and started with my first tank of B20 last night, rather than plunging full-tilt into a tank of straight B100. Besides, here in the Pacific Northwest, I have yet to find B100 for less than four dollars (!!) a gallon. B20 is about 50 cents more per gallon than the standard Diesel #2, and is right around $2.43/gallon at the moment.

On Diesel #2, my Jetta was getting 51 MPG/highway. I hope that running B20 may help that number get even a little bit better.

Any other folks out there running B20? What modifications, if any, did you make? Any additives? Performance results?

JJ

skinz2k5TDI · Jan 4, 2005

B20 (Was: Re: Mixing biodiesel with diesel #2)

How do you know what cetane is for the B20 at the pump? I haven't seen it on the (soy based) B20 pumps local to me. BP on HWY 64W. Pump sticker states premiere diesel, but we know that isn't true due to the big flower covered biodiesel sign on the pumps. I had a different thread asking about additives for cold weather, not necessarily cetane boost. but will gladly use the grey PS bottle instead of white bottle. The price I have paid for it was $2.09 per gal. contacting the BP distributor to get more info on the cetane.. will post back

JudyJetta · Jan 4, 2005

B20 (Was: Re: Mixing biodiesel with diesel #2)

How do you know what cetane is for the B20 at the pump? I haven't seen it on the (soy based) B20 pumps local to me.

Excellent question. I have not seen the cetane info posted anywhere at all either. Heck, most places I have seen who offer biodiesel advertise just that -- biodiesel. I'll call around and see what I can find out too.

JJ

skinz2k5TDI · Jan 4, 2005

B20 (Was: Re: Mixing biodiesel with diesel #2)

From my readings on the biodieselnow.org and other sites, I know B100 can go as high as 60cetane, but not sure where B20 or other mixtures rank... if anyone has more info, please chime in

skinz2k5TDI · Jan 4, 2005

B20 (Was: Re: Mixing biodiesel with diesel #2)

My local station gave me the number of their distributor (919-558-9400) the young lady who answered wasn't very knowledgable about this specific B20 product, but did know a thing or two about B100... she promises to get back to me with in a days time with answers to my questions... we'll see

skinz2k5TDI · Jan 5, 2005

B20 (Was: Re: Mixing biodiesel with diesel #2)

So i heard back from the young lady at the NC Clean cities coalition, and she tells me the winterization has started as of Dec 15th, but it takes a few days to get thru the tanks. There isn't a lot that is really needed to be done to B20, but the B100 they ship does get additives. The end result B20 cetane from this distributor to my local station is 53 cetane (NOT BAD!!) so I personnaly don't see a need for a cetane booster, but possibly an anti-gel additive.

guess I know where I'll be filing up from now on...

Happy VDUBBING!!

SUNRG · Jan 6, 2005

B20 (Was: Re: Mixing biodiesel with diesel #2)

53 is great. if they're already winterizing the fuel you shouldn't need to add anything (save your money for mods

). the B100 i use is 53 and Pacific BioD's B100 is 61.5.

SUNRG · Jan 6, 2005

Thanks, I'll try to find a retailer here in Hawaii who sells that product. Although, Hawaii doesn't always carry products easily found on the mainland.

you may have good luck at marinas. lots of boats use diesel engines and the fuel conditioners they use are either the exact same as the ones we use or they're the exact same in different packaging.

SUNRG · Jan 6, 2005

here's a cheap source for stanadyne junior
http://www.dieselpage.com/add2.htm

skinz2k5TDI · Jan 6, 2005

Re: B20 (Was: Re: Mixing biodiesel with diesel #2)

yeah..good idea SUNRG... I do want some mods... a chip would be nice... and a suspension drop wouldn't hurt either with a nice pair of R32 pre-owned rims

need to save my coins from the additives... sounds like I have this all planned huh?

Fahrfuwerfuelen · Jan 7, 2005

SUNRG

Thanks for the thought. There are very few marinas in Hawaii, believe it or not. For a State surrounded by water, we have one of the lowest boater populations and just a few places where you can buy marine fuel.

Just a few private marinas and yacht clubs and the State run marinas (4 on Oahu) are in such disrepair, its unbelieveable.

I checked Stanadyne's website and found a retailer/wholesaler. Based upon his location, I suspect he mainly services the big rig 18 wheelers, but I'll check him out. I was able to find Power Service at Checker Auto Supply.

Found out that Pacific Biodiesel is supplying Aloha Gas (distributor) with BioD and Aloha is providing B20 to the City bus fleet and other commercial accounts. But no B20 for retail stations. Considering that Pac. Bio is roughly the same price as #2 diesel, I just may run B100 from now on.

turbobiodiesel · Jan 7, 2005

Regarding mixing biodiesel blends.
You should download and read the 2004 Biodiesel Handling and Use Guidelines from NREL. On pages 37/43 it covers splash blending of fuels.
http://www.nrel.gov/vehiclesandfuels/npbf/pdfs/tp36182.pdf

As stated above the biodiesel will give you any and all required cetane boost. Do not waste your money on unneeded additives.

You will find that biodiesel in Hawaii is price competitive or less in cost than petroleum diesel. What you may find is that as a new customer there will be a waiting list for the fuel. There is more demand than supply on the islands due to the cost differance. Pacific Biodiesel may not even pass the full tax savings on and may instead retain some for facility expansion, education and development. They are in the unique situation due to logistics that their fuel is better, avaliable, cheaper and in demand by a loyal group of customers. I just hope that you are not too late in getting on board.

Fahrfuwerfuelen · Jan 10, 2005

Thanks Turbodiesel.

Went by Pac. Biodiesel the other day and filled up. No problem!! The only down side is they open around 7am and close by 3-3:30pm. That means I have to drive over on my lunch break otherwise I'm locked out.

Talked with the guy working there and he indicated that the Oahu plant ships about 1/2 of its production to Maui because of the demand.

Because Pac. BioD's prices are the same a regular #2, I might just stick with B-100.

Mixing biodiesel with diesel #2

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