2013 Sportwagen purchase advice

I currently own 1998 AHU, 2003 ALH, and 2005 BEW TDi's. I do a lot of my own work to the level of replacing timing belt or changing a clutch. I keep my cars a long time and drive them a lot -- each of my TDi's has between 230-290K miles on them, and I'm hoping to take my 2003 to 500K.

I plan to sell the 1998 and 2005 TDi's, and I've placed a $500 non-refundable deposit on a 2013 Sportwagen with 120K miles. I have a week to decide whether to buy it or not. It was hail damaged and then repaired with paintless dent repair, so the price is an incredible deal at $6500.

I've been strategizing to buy a CR for some time. I'm aware of the HPFP issue and had planned to install the 2micron kit as a way of limiting my losses in case the pump failed. But I just looked, and his website isn't up any more. OTOH, the HPFP on the 2013 model is doubtless several revisions later than the 2009 pumps, so maybe it's pretty reliable and I don't need to worry about it? But if I put 500K miles on this car, there's plenty of time for the pump to fail. I'm willing to deal with a $2000 repair, but not a $10,000 one.

Questions:

• Is there a way currently available for sale to protect against pump failure? This could be the 2micron kit or a competitive product. If so, how do I get it?
• I'm not worried about small to medium potential problems or maintenance -- I'll fix 'em as they come. But is there any other big issue besides the HPFP I should worry about?
• I would be happy to hear any votes or advice about whether to buy it or not.

Thanks. I know you've probably explained this a thousand times already, but I appreciate anyone who will chime in and help me out.

OK, with more research:

• 2micron (Andrew) offers (offered?) 2 kits: the Pure Flow and Contain Flow kits, which are best used together.
• There's a CP3 replacement HPFP kit which is supposed to fix the root cause of failure by replacing a weak pump design with a stronger one. The kit includes a CP3 pump and an adapter kit. It looks like it's available from Darkside Development (UK) for about $690-$1275 at today's exchange rates (plus shipping). The cost difference is for different grades of pump, from used-untested to fully rebuilt.

I sent a PM and an e-mail to Andrew (2micron) to see if his kits are still available, and if so, how much.

I'd like to hear opinions of whether the CP3 pump upgrade sufficiently addresses the pump failure issue to the point where Andrew's kits are not needed. I would like to target a 500,000 mi life for this car.

Thanks again. I appreciate any input.

They want to much considering the previous hail damage and current miles. If you are willing to fly to another state and drive it back, you can find better deals in other states

cfm56 said:

They want to much considering the previous hail damage and current miles. If you are willing to fly to another state and drive it back, you can find better deals in other states

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Thanks! That's good to know. I've been watching Colorado CR TDI prices for about a year, and the lowest I've seen here for a JSW is about $9k. Average is about $12K. The car I'm considering is from South Dakota and Michigan.

The market is flooded with these thing right now. Find the lowest mileage one you can afford that is CPO'd with a 2 year unlimited mileage bumper to bumper warranty. That in addition to the diesel emissions warranty should give you some piece of mind.

I think the CP3 pump upgrade sufficiently addresses the pump failure issue. That's why I got one for my car. But you still need "Andrew's kit" to install the new pump. The pump install requires an adapter plate and Andrew fabricated that adapter. He also provided the adapter to others and the supply was limited and possibly not being made anymore. Andrew's adapter kit also came with an extra filter to add additional purity to the fuel feeding the pump. I think that might not be needed with the better pump, but it isn't a bad thing.

I just checked Darkside Developments and it shows the kit as available! Where I purchased mine (GDM) shows the kit is out of stock. It also looks like you can get Andrew's additional filter from Darkside, but you don't have to get it with the kit that has the adapter and pump.

If you get a car with 120K miles, it will be about time to replace the timing belt and that would be a good time to also add the new pump. I think the '12 might be a 130K mile replacement for the belt.

Good luck!

Why would you go to the expense of replacing a pump with one that will void the 4 year/48K mile warranty that's included with all fixed TDIs?

IndigoBlueWagon said:

Why would you go to the expense of replacing a pump with one that will void the 4 year/48K mile warranty that's included with all fixed TDIs?

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^^That's a valid point! If I had the fix already and didn't have the CP3 pump, I think I'd wait to get the new pump until after the warranty expired.

I got mine before the fix. And fortunately, so far, I have gotten warranty repairs without issue, e.g., the intake manifold was replaced under the warranty after the fix. I also received no complaints when I had the fix done, and they said they looked hard to be sure I didn't have any issues. Theoretically, I think the pump shouldn't affect the warranty unless they can demonstrate that it caused the issue, but I guess it might depend on the dealer.

If you have not looked, a flick thru my recently started 2012 thread might cover some of the stuff you mentioned.

Matt927 said:

The market is flooded with these thing right now. Find the lowest mileage one you can afford that is CPO'd with a 2 year unlimited mileage bumper to bumper warranty. That in addition to the diesel emissions warranty should give you some piece of mind.

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What is "CPO'd"? The car had the emissions recall performed 9/5/2018. Is that what you mean?
On edit -- OK, you must mean "Certified Pre-Owned". Thanks!

ksing44 said:

I think the CP3 pump upgrade sufficiently addresses the pump failure issue.
...
If you get a car with 120K miles, it will be about time to replace the timing belt and that would be a good time to also add the new pump. I think the '12 might be a 130K mile replacement for the belt.

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Thanks, for the above and all the other detail you provided. I was wondering about the timing belt -- I was hoping it was just replaced at 100K, but that's the interval on my ALH. I didn't know it had been expanded to 130K. I'll make a point to look up the interval for that specific car.

IndigoBlueWagon said:

Why would you go to the expense of replacing a pump with one that will void the 4 year/48K mile warranty that's included with all fixed TDIs?

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Because where CR TDi's are concerned, I just fell off the turnip truck, and there's a lot I don't know, like about that warranty.. So thanks for educating me! However, my questions are about a long-term strategy. Knowing about the warranty, I would probably buy the parts when/where I can find them (since they seem hard to come by), but wait until the warranty expires to install them.

KeyTDI said:

If you have not looked, a flick thru my recently started 2012 thread might cover some of the stuff you mentioned.

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Thanks, I'll look for that.

shoebear said:

Because where CR TDi's are concerned, I just fell off the turnip truck, and there's a lot I don't know, like about that warranty.. So thanks for educating me! However, my questions are about a long-term strategy. Knowing about the warranty, I would probably buy the parts when/where I can find them (since they seem hard to come by), but wait until the warranty expires to install them.

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Truth is, HPFP failures are pretty rare, and usually caused by fuel contamination of some kind. There's been a lot of debate about how common the failures actually are, but after hanging around these cars and supplying parts for them since their intro I've concluded that they don't fail often. Talk to any guru you can find and ask how many pumps they've replaced. Most will tell you they've never replaced one.

IndigoBlueWagon said:

Truth is, HPFP failures are pretty rare, and usually caused by fuel contamination of some kind. There's been a lot of debate about how common the failures actually are, but after hanging around these cars and supplying parts for them since their intro I've concluded that they don't fail often. Talk to any guru you can find and ask how many pumps they've replaced. Most will tell you they've never replaced one.

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Thanks, I appreciate that perspective. So if you were in my shoes, and you wanted the car to last 500K miles, and the warranty was expired, would you spend any money to upgrade the pump or add 2micron's filtration solution? I realize this is an individual judgement call, but I'm interested in yours, if you are willing to share it. Bear in mind that as a consumer, I can't guarantee the fuel quality of every single fillup.

BTW, I just installed ceramic pads and disks from idparts on the rear of my 2003 last weekend.

Thanks for the order. I love those pads. I've had them on my Wagon for nearly 5 years and they're about half worn after nearly 100K miles.

First, I think one of these cars lasting 500K miles may be a stretch. The older cars had less to fail and only a few go that far. But that aside, i wouldn't do anything about the HPFP. First, not many fail. Second, they don't cost that much. If you get nervous after 200K or so you could replace it as a preventive measure for about 1K. Do it when you replace the timing belt, perhaps at 240K. But that's probably not really necessary.

My 2cents:
Too much to pay for that car.
I paid $11k for a ‘12 JSW 6mt with under 46k miles. Texas car - no northern winters
It’s a lot easier to take your car to high miles when you know what it’s been through & what’s gone into it.

I’ve yet to hear about a CP3 fail, so if you swap one of those in (after warranty is up) you don’t need the 2micron kit.
My plan is to swap one in at my next t-belt service after my warranty is up - on both my 2010 Jetta & new to me 2012 JSW (both have CJAA engine).
I’ve had my 2010 since 2011 with 7400 miles, now has 195k miles with no sign of slowing down.

Just my miliage.

On a dieselgate CR, I think the only safe assumption is that any car around the 120K mark is not going to have any of its major maintenance done. By the time you add in the timing belt and DSG service, let alone all the other regular maintenance you need to do with a freshly bought used car, you'll have been better off putting that money towards a lower mileage one.


Even doing it yourself, by the time you've done the TB, DSG, new filters and fluids, fresh tires, and the fuel filter mods, you're pretty close to doubling the price of the car. At that point you might be better off looking for a 2015.

D-Cup said:

My 2cents:
Too much to pay for that car.
I paid $11k for a ‘12 JSW 6mt with under 46k miles. Texas car - no northern winters
It’s a lot easier to take your car to high miles when you know what it’s been through & what’s gone into it.

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Thanks for your input; those are good points, especially about northern winters.

I don't see any 2015 JSW's for sale right now in Colorado. There's a 2014 with 54K for $12,400 and one with 37K for $15K. I've been watching prices for about a year, and these are typical of what I've seen.

bizzle said:

On a dieselgate CR, I think the only safe assumption is that any car around the 120K mark is not going to have any of its major maintenance done. By the time you add in the timing belt and DSG service, let alone all the other regular maintenance you need to do with a freshly bought used car, you'll have been better off putting that money towards a lower mileage one.

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The car is a 6-speed, so no DSG. The timing belt is a major consideration. A kit from DieselGeek is $300, and it would take me a weekend to change it myself. I don't know yet what a shop would charge, but I'm guessing $1500-2000. So these are all considerations.

@shoebear
I just nabbed my 2013 JSW TDI/M6 from Penkhus with 60k. They had a couple. There was a white M6 with 90k on it for $8k-$9k. they might still have it. Otherwise, there was one at Phil Long and a bunch in Denver.
If you're looking for DSG, those can be had even lower. I was very specific about wanting a JSW M6, so the cost was driven up.
Plus, dont forget about the "Colorado tax." Look in any other state and save more than the cost of the plane ticket and return fuel home. I had to do that when I found my 2015 Chevy Cruze Diesel. Found it in Tulsa, OK, one way ticket, and drive back saved about $3k overall, and at the time there were no Cruze Diesels in Colorado.

More info:

• 2micron (Andrew) replied to my e-mail. He is not making his kits anymore due to low demand, but would be willing to reconsider if there is enough call for them. He also said, "Go straight to the CP3 pump, it really is the best option."
• The car carries the TDi Warranty Extension until 11/4/2023 or 174,579 miles.
• I did an Auto-Scan with my VCDS. There are a bunch of intermittent codes set mostly having to do with Central Electronics or the radio (full list below).I cleared them, drove the car some, and checked again. The only one that came back was 02635 - Tuner Not Enabled/Activated, which I suspect is because there is no Sirius subscription. My guess: These were codes set by disconnecting stuff during the paintless dent repair, and the body shop didn't have a VCDS to clear the codes.
• A body shop checked it out. There are a few very small paint dings on the right side front door area, but no dents or signs of repainting. There are also no signs of rust or corrosion except some surface rust on front suspension parts.
• A repair shop checked it out. Everything looks good except for the codes mentioned above.

Full list of codes. All cleared and stayed cleared except 02635 - Tuner Not Enabled/Activated:

Address 09: Cent. Elect. (J519)
14 Faults Found:
00956 - Key 2
005 - No or Incorrect Basic Setting / Adaptation - Intermittent
00984 - Left Tail Light (M4)
010 - Open or Short to Plus - Intermittent
00985 - Right Tail Light (M2)
010 - Open or Short to Plus - Intermittent
00987 - Lamp for Brake Light; Left (M9)
010 - Open or Short to Plus - Intermittent
00988 - Lamp for Brake Light; Right (M10)
010 - Open or Short to Plus - Intermittent
01038 - Central Locking Thermal Protection
000 - - - Intermittent
01501 - Bulb for Blinkers; Rear Left (M6)
010 - Open or Short to Plus - Intermittent
01503 - Bulb for 3rd Brake Light (M25)
010 - Open or Short to Plus - Intermittent
01504 - Bulb for License-Plate Light (X)
010 - Open or Short to Plus - Intermittent
01505 - Bulb for Blinkers; Rear Right (M8)
010 - Open or Short to Plus - Intermittent
01518 - Bulb for Back-Up Lights; Left (M16)
010 - Open or Short to Plus - Intermittent
01519 - Bulb for Back-Up Lights; Right (M17)
010 - Open or Short to Plus - Intermittent
01565 - Luggage Compartment Light (W3)
010 - Open or Short to Plus - Intermittent
03384 - Windshield Washer Jet Heating
010 - Open or Short to Plus - Intermittent

Address 19: CAN Gateway (J533)
2 Faults Found:
01304 - Radio
004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
03272 - Control Module for Audio Interface
004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent

Address 56: Radio (J503)
7 Faults Found:
02635 - Tuner Not Enabled/Activated
000 - -
01044 - Control Module Incorrectly Coded
000 - - - Intermittent
00870 - Bass Speaker Front Left (R21)
011 - Open Circuit - Intermittent
00871 - Bass Speaker Front Right (R23)
011 - Open Circuit - Intermittent
00872 - Bass Speaker Rear Left (R15)
011 - Open Circuit - Intermittent
00873 - Bass Speaker Rear Right (R17)
011 - Open Circuit - Intermittent
02633 - Antenna for Satellite Tuner
011 - Open Circuit - Intermittent

Seems like a good deal and if you've already got $500 non-refundable deposit on it then I'd go for it. That's a lot of car for the money.

shoebear said:

I've placed a $500 non-refundable deposit on a 2013 Sportwagen with 120K miles. I have a week to decide whether to buy it or not. It was hail damaged and then repaired with paintless dent repair, so the price is an incredible deal at $6500.

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If you're willing to drive to Utah, there's a small indie dealership near me that's flipping a lot of these TDIs at minimal markup. For about $500 more than what you're looking at they have a white manual with 83k miles:


https://www.incredibleautosales.com...ortWagen-9dd566400a0e0adf0bac9fafbbbc469d.htm

CDubber said:

If you're willing to drive to Utah, there's a small indie dealership near me that's flipping a lot of these TDIs at minimal markup. For about $500 more than what you're looking at they have a white manual with 83k miles:

https://www.incredibleautosales.com...ortWagen-9dd566400a0e0adf0bac9fafbbbc469d.htm

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Thanks! I appreciate the tip. If it were within 3-4 hours, I'd consider it but Bountiful is 9 hours away. It's not just the drive, but also having time and resources to check it out carefully as I've done with this one.

ToBiN said:

@shoebear
I just nabbed my 2013 JSW TDI/M6 from Penkhus with 60k. They had a couple. There was a white M6 with 90k on it for $8k-$9k. they might still have it. Otherwise, there was one at Phil Long and a bunch in Denver.
If you're looking for DSG, those can be had even lower. I was very specific about wanting a JSW M6, so the cost was driven up.
Plus, dont forget about the "Colorado tax." Look in any other state and save more than the cost of the plane ticket and return fuel home. I had to do that when I found my 2015 Chevy Cruze Diesel. Found it in Tulsa, OK, one way ticket, and drive back saved about $3k overall, and at the time there were no Cruze Diesels in Colorado.

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Hey ToBIN, just saw your post; not sure how I missed it earlier. Thanks for the tips. This will be a car for my wife, who is out of town until Friday evening. Now that I've invested the deposit and the buyer check money (at both German Motor Sports and European Performance Specialists) and everything checks out good, I think we'll get this one unless she doesn't like it. My deposit holds it until Saturday, so we have the time. If she doesn't like it, though, I'll check out Penkhus and Phil Long.

I hear you about the "Colorado Tax" -- Thanks, Gov Ritter! Taxorado, indeed.

shoebear said:

Hey ToBIN, just saw your post; not sure how I missed it earlier. Thanks for the tips. This will be a car for my wife, who is out of town until Friday evening. Now that I've invested the deposit and the buyer check money (at both German Motor Sports and European Performance Specialists) and everything checks out good, I think we'll get this one unless she doesn't like it. My deposit holds it until Saturday, so we have the time. If she doesn't like it, though, I'll check out Penkhus and Phil Long.

I hear you about the "Colorado Tax" -- Thanks, Gov Ritter! Taxorado, indeed.

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Sweet man. I saw you over on Cruzetalk also. IDK why we get the COTax here but subys, VWs, it seems almost everything goes up in cost, not necessarily value, once it hits our state lines.

I forgot, are you looking for a auto or stick? I found sticks to be higher pricetag too. not sure why because the DSG seems like a solid 1 to 1 transfer of power by design. Doesn't seem like the manual transmissions gain any mpg through the clutch. Maybe its just the way I drive. lol..

Anyhow, good luck man. Since we're local, hit me up if you need any help. I'm always happy to help others.

ToBiN said:

Sweet man. I saw you over on Cruzetalk also. IDK why we get the COTax here but subys, VWs, it seems almost everything goes up in cost, not necessarily value, once it hits our state lines.

I forgot, are you looking for a auto or stick? I found sticks to be higher pricetag too. not sure why because the DSG seems like a solid 1 to 1 transfer of power by design. Doesn't seem like the manual transmissions gain any mpg through the clutch. Maybe its just the way I drive. lol..

Anyhow, good luck man. Since we're local, hit me up if you need any help. I'm always happy to help others.

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Thanks, ToBIN. I'm looking for a stick. Can't drive an automatic -- I've tried to like them, but I can't. Since Colorado has turned solid blue, expect more taxes and more diesel hatred. You say you are local -- are you in the Springs?

shoebear said:

Thanks, ToBIN. I'm looking for a stick. Can't drive an automatic -- I've tried to like them, but I can't. Since Colorado has turned solid blue, expect more taxes and more diesel hatred. You say you are local -- are you in the Springs?

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Lets just say Im in the springs area. I commute to springs for work everyday from Pueblo. 50 miles each way, which is why I needed 40 mpg. We seem to be everywhere all the time, springs, denver, pueblo, all over the state.

CO Native. Moved to Springs in 99. moved down to Fountain in 2006. Kept moving south in 2015 and here we are.

When you say you've tried an automatic and don't like them, does that mean that you have driven a DSG specifically? Not intending to start a storm, but a DSG isn't an automatic. If throwing the stick around is what you're craving that's one thing, but the DSG doesn't drive like an automatic so it's worth mentioning the distinction if you haven't actually tried a DSG specifically.

Almost all of the complaints (aside from those of us who simply prefer moving a stickshift around) I've read or heard about DSG transmissions are explainable by those people driving them like automatics and being disappointed at the feedback (from the clutched system--not forum members, ).

In the D.C. area, there are plenty of JSW TDIs for sale... and pretty good deals too: https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inven...itySelectingHelper.selectedEntity2=&zip=22156

Maybe it’s because we have so many here. Prices on these have dropped around 2-3 grand in just a few months.

bizzle said:

When you say you've tried an automatic and don't like them, does that mean that you have driven a DSG specifically? Not intending to start a storm, but a DSG isn't an automatic. If throwing the stick around is what you're craving that's one thing, but the DSG doesn't drive like an automatic so it's worth mentioning the distinction if you haven't actually tried a DSG specifically.

Almost all of the complaints (aside from those of us who simply prefer moving a stickshift around) I've read or heard about DSG transmissions are explainable by those people driving them like automatics and being disappointed at the feedback (from the clutched system--not forum members, ).

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I test-drove a DSG, but putzing around the dealership isn't the same as driving a car for a week in real world conditions. In Colorado, a lot of the terrain is hilly, and I appreciate having manual control of the transmission. I know you can do that with the DSG, but a significant part of that control is controlling the clutch. For example, if I need to dart across a busy street, I can get a great launch, timed exactly when I want it, with a manual, if I don't mind sacrificing a bit of clutch wear. I had a coworker with a JSW TDi DSG, and his big complaint was that scenario; he said he could floor it, but the launch would be delayed half a second or so, and then it wasn't overly strong at first until the revs picked up. Another reason I like a standard is maintenance cost. I tend to keep my cars for a long time, and a DSG (or any automatic) rebuild is many times the cost of replacing a clutch.

Dwagen said:

In the D.C. area, there are plenty of JSW TDIs for sale... and pretty good deals too: https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inven...itySelectingHelper.selectedEntity2=&zip=22156

Maybe it’s because we have so many here. Prices on these have dropped around 2-3 grand in just a few months.

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Thanks. I pick my wife up at the airport tonight, and we will decide tomorrow. Basically, I'm giving the all-clear mechanically and body-wise, so it really comes down to whether she likes it or not.

If not, and if she still wants to consider a JSW at all, your list will be handy.

Well, like I said you can't approach it like an automatic because it isn't one. You can't floor a manual in under half a second, either. What you're doing is counting the time from clutch engagement to go but not counting the time from dead stop to clutch engagement (if you've been driving manuals as long as I have, then it's second nature and you aren't likely to even realize the timing because it's all muscle memory).

Anyway, I'm not trying to argue the merits of one over the other or convince you one way or the other. I'm just cautioning that in order to give the DSG a fair shake you have to drive it like a manual. Since it doesn't have a clutch pedal, you have to add that half second or so in your head that exists when you're moving your feet to engage the clutch. If you floor it like you would an automatic it won't respond in the same way and it's going to feel laggy. It's a clutched system so the transmission is decoupled from the engine.

Doesn't sound like you're interested but if you pass that info to your buddy he will probably get faster launches and might thank you for it. And if that still doesn't do the trick for him, I think there might be software tunes for launch control.

Thanks, bizzle. My buddy took the buyback a year or so ago, and now misses his JSW and wishes he hadn't. You're right about needing to anticipate a launch with a manual, and also about the muscle memory that I don't even think about. I suppose it just comes down to personal preference.

Everyone -- We did end up buying the car; thanks for all the info and advice. Even if you advised me against it, I still appreciated and considered your input.

One thing I noticed is that there is an inverter installed in the back of the center console, and it looks like there is a cover panel missing:



From my research, it looks like the inverter is a rare option; usually there are flip-down cupholders there. I've also had trouble determining if there is in fact a missing access panel, or if the hinge pins I see at the four corners are just left over from the cupholders.

So:

• Is the Inverter common or rare?
• Is there supposed to be an access door there for the inverter?
• If so, does anyone have a part number for it?

Thanks!