Gas Station Pulls Pumps And Adds EV Charging

He removed the pumps and tanks and then added EV charging stations.
https://www.nbcwashington.com/on-ai...-Takoma-Park_-MD_Washington-DC-561472042.html

Looked like they only had room for 4 cars there though. At 30 minutes each they won't get much business through there. 4 cars at 30 minutes each is 8 cars an hour x 24 hours is 192 cars a day at $7 a charge, for a total of $1344 a day, gross. It seems from looking them up they mostly do repairs and some fuel. Surprised I don't see any solar panels there to offset some usage.

What a stooge maniac!

Here's a write-up about the place.
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/09/26/fir...l-for-electric-vehicle-charging-now-open.html

Who wouldn't take $1 million or so to convert? I still don't see it ever being profitable at $7 a charge. Good intentions or not it doesn't sound like a sound business deal. The electricity has to cost something and that eats way into that $7 I would imagine. Not to mention they won't be used to full capacity 24 hours a day. I applaud the thought but it seems like the $1 million dollars has been wasted. Why wouldn't they also include solar panels when doing something like this?

The article states that there's a local electric taxi service that's in bad need of charging infrastructure, so it looks like the chargers may very well be used 24 hours a day.

Sounds like it could be very profitable for the owner. A taxi fleet (most other ev owners as well)will probably be more interested in refueling quickly, rather than trying to squeeze in every last electron. And like anything else, price is subject to change.

I seriously doubt that tiny burg of a town has a fleet of electric taxis and or owners that will keep it fully loaded 24 hours a day. Even if they do the numbers are tiny. At $1344 a day gross at full usage minus the costs, I don't see how it will ever be "very profitable". Even the owner stated “You notice there are not too many electric vehicles on the road,” he said. “So it’s not something that I expect to become rich overnight or something like that, but it’s a good cause [and] good for the environment.”

It only took a $800,000 grant from our/their tax dollars so he could make a few hundred dollars a day, maybe.

I'd much rather have my tax dollars go toward building infrastructure for the future than pad the vaults of some Saudi prince who gets his jollies from dismembering journalists.

Lightflyer1 said:

I don't see how it will ever be "very profitable".

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It's unlikely that DC fast charging will ever be 'profitable' on the basis of selling electrons. As far as I know there isn't anyone that profitably sells only gasoline or diesel either. It's mostly a way to get you into the store (like Safeway or Costco) or sell you something overpriced in a convenience store.

The charge point CEO made a good point a few years ago. Selling gasoline is a terrible business model (it has the lowest margins of any retail sales), selling electrons is taking a bad business model and making it worse. How busy do you think gas stations would be if most people could get diesel at wholesale rates delivered at home?

For DC fast charging to be viable all stake holders need to chip in. The host that benefits from foot traffic, the manufacturer that sells the car, the utility that sells the electricity, the community that benefits from cleaner air and the drivers that need to charge away from home...

turbobrick240 said:

I'd much rather have my tax dollars go toward building infrastructure for the future than pad the vaults of some Saudi prince who gets his jollies from dismembering journalists.

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If they are going to go this route they should be building public charging stations, not private enterprise stations. We should get some benefit from our tax dollars doing this not private enterprise. I am all for building out infrastructure of all kinds with our tax dollars. It should be better used though and not for personal profit.

Stop using all oil then if you don't want to be padding the pockets of Saudi princes. It isn't just your tax dollars. You are funding them by using their products. You can't complain about one while continuing to do the other. Sell your ICE cars and go electric if you really feel that strongly about it. We have a long ways to go before we can live without them.

They will make money off of selling cokes, chips, lottery tickets, beer etc just like regular gas stations. They might open a cafe or a coffee bar with wi fi for the customers to pass a half hour to an hour. They also mentioned repairing the cars.

They don't seem to be a convenience store. They are also in a tiny building by looking at them with Google Earth. Their sole source of other income seems to be from repairs. There doesn't seem to be room for anything else. Even if they are they will lose traffic with no fuel any more. Sales will go down.

I think it's fantastic. My sister lives in Takoma Park, and an EV would be ideal for her daily commute. I'm also impressed by how much the guy values his 17 year old daughters input.

I'm sure he's going to be just fine and I'm sure there'll be more behind him.

gulfcoastguy said:

They will make money off of selling cokes, chips, lottery tickets, beer etc just like regular gas stations. They might open a cafe or a coffee bar with wi fi for the customers to pass a half hour to an hour. They also mentioned repairing the cars.

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If it were me I'd install some video poker machines. Free charging for players. About the only shot in turning a profit here.

Lightflyer1 said:

They don't seem to be a convenience store. They are also in a tiny building by looking at them with Google Earth. Their sole source of other income seems to be from repairs. There doesn't seem to be room for anything else. Even if they are they will lose traffic with no fuel any more. Sales will go down.

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That is what building contractors are for. The gas station up the road from my former office couldn't match the lower price ones because he has a single station and the distributers charge him more than multi station chains. He added a coffee station and built a small cafe to serve plate lunches to the blue collar workers passing by. I think she also sold breakfast biscuits She being the woman that he hired to run it for him. He being a muslim couldn't touch all of the pork that they cooked up and sold.

Maybe he can do that, but there doesn't seem room to build. Contractors are only useful if you have the space to build. Maybe they can two story the building and put a cafe in upstairs. But again the cost of that would greatly exceed the income generated.

Kind of useless to discuss though as it is his business and I am sure he can handle his own affairs. Lets check back in 2 years and see what the place looks like then on Google Earth.

You can check his progress whenever you want on Plugshare.
https://www.plugshare.com/location/208270

I'm not sure about Tacoma Park, but know there are many areas in the DC area that have street parking only. For those people, there would not be an easy way to charge their ecars at home. This is a solution that is probably easier than the city putting in charging stations that are not easy to get to or around. At least the gas station is already set up for traffic flow through.

Have you seen the Google Earth picture of his lot? It looks like a used car lot. Cars waiting to be worked on I would imagine, plus employees. Doesn't look to be any easier than the street parking you are talking about.

El Dobro said:

You can check his progress whenever you want on Plugshare.
https://www.plugshare.com/location/208270

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I just used that link and there are 4 charging stations already just across the street from him at 7301 Carroll Ave. . All the photos I can find of it don't show it being used 100%.

It would be nice if we could get out of the depot paradigm for fuel. It made sense for petrol since it had to be specially contained but it makes a lot less sense for electricity. You shouldn't go somewhere specific to charge.... you should go somewhere you WANT to go for some other reason and charge while you're there.

You charge at home because you're home. Charge at work while you're at work. Charge at Dennys on a road trip because you want dinner. It's a little silly to have a location with the primary purpose of charging cars.

That makes sense. When I lived in Alaska there were plugins everywhere for engine warmers. Something like that would make sense for electric vehicles as well. I don't see that happening though until they take over way more of the driving public though.

We really need to have a variety of charging options. Tesla's supercharging stations are essentially fuel depots. I have no idea if those actually generate a profit (suspect not), but they are quite useful.

Just wondering if it was good use of tax dollars to install these four new charging points across the street from four existing charging points. Seems like it would have been better to find a location away from the existing ones.

turbobrick240 said:

We really need to have a variety of charging options. Tesla's supercharging stations are essentially fuel depots. I have no idea if those actually generate a profit (suspect not), but they are quite useful.

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It's a bit of semantics but I don't think that would be described as a 'fuel depot' the way most people use them and the way they are intended to be used. Ideally they're located near somewhere that you can stop for a break. Yes you need to refuel but most people also appreciate some food and a restroom after ~3 hours of driving.

I define the depot paradigm as stopping there on your way home from work because it's been a week since you charged and the battery is nearly dead. Some apartment dwellers will use superchargers like this but it's not very convenient and expensive. Finding slower (L2) chargers where you can do other things like shop, eat and exercise may take more planning but will be better in the long run. Ideally they need to get charging where they live or work.

The superchargers are never intended to turn a profit. But they were also supposed to be free forever (the moochers put an end to that...). We'll see. A good L3 fast charger easily costs $50k... the math is pretty impossible to try to turn a profit selling electricity. You need multiple revenue streams to cover the cost. Host, OEM, driver..... diesel-gate money from VW helps too (Electrify America).

That's true- if we're using the proper definition of what a fuel depot actually is. In that case, neither gasoline/diesel service stations, nor the Takoma Park station are fuel depots.

turbobrick240 said:

That's true- if we're using the proper definition of what a fuel depot actually is. In that case, neither gasoline/diesel service stations, nor the Takoma Park station are fuel depots.

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That's why I referred to it as a 'paradigm'. You go to the 'gas station'. My point is that we need to get out of that mindset. Instead of having a place to get fuel... put the 'fuel' at the places you park for other purposes. I've met new EV owners (mostly renters) that seemingly have that locked in their brain. I go to the gas station to get gas... I go to X to charge my car...

IMO having a specific place to charge your car like this former gas station is silly. Put the place to charge your car where you go to do other things. At a rest area, at a IHOP, at work, at the gym, at a movie theatre and at home.

I'm traveling from WA to NM. The hotel I chose has 6 HPWCs. I chose it for that reason....

I agree, but until charging stations are ubiquitous, the more the merrier. Tesla Superchargers, Ionity chargers(Europe), Electrify America chargers, etc., ... all good.