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Go Back   TDIClub Forums > TDI Model Specific Discussions Areas > VW MKIV-A4 TDIs (VE and PD)

VW MKIV-A4 TDIs (VE and PD) This is a general discussion about A4/MkIV Jetta (99.5-~2005), Golf(99.5-2006), and New Beetle(98-2006). Both VE and PD engines are covered here.

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Old August 17th, 2018, 20:13   #31
Genesis
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Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Niceville, FL
Fuel Economy: 53/48/42
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There's 100 wrong ways and one right way to set the timing up on these engines.

And yes, it's that important. See what I wrote up above, verify that it's right, and if it's not before you do ANYTHING else come back here and tell us what you found. IF you haven't smashed valves it's not hard to fix BUT there's still only one right way to do it.
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Old August 17th, 2018, 20:55   #32
wonneber
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivoskis View Post
At what point do you then slip on the timing belt and what if a groove/ridge do not line
up perfectly?
Start with finding the timing mark on the flywheel and have it by the pointer.

I'm assuming you have the 5MM 'A perfectly sized pin gauge'
Close may not be good.
Also there is a 'sucker hole' in the injector pump. The pin goes in but not fully.
This might be a good time to loosen the 3 bolts on the front of the pump.
Do NOT loosen the center nut.

'some gauge block gizmos locked the camshaft'
The real tool gets centered with feeler gauges the same size on each end.
The cam lobes for cylinder 1 must both be pointing up at this point.

At this point #1 cylinder is at top dead center, the cam is locked for #1 cylinder, and the injector pump should be locked for #1 cylinder.

If the 2 locks are in and the crank pointer is correct the timing should be good.

If you never did the belt on a TDI the sucker hold might be the problem. It got me once.
Try to rotate the pump be the 3 bolts back & forth while pushing the pin it.
If it goes in further the pump was not in time.

The cam pully should be loosened if you want to make sure it's on the money.

There's a few long threads on doing the belt here, one is a sticky.
Worth reading one of them a few times. A lot of detail and pictures in them.
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Old August 18th, 2018, 00:31   #33
Ivoskis
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Thanks for the info Wonneber. Wiped off the area around the timing mark hole but
could not find anything except a sharp edge on the casting which might serve as a
timing reference. Certainly nothing like the pics in the Chilton book suggested!
Will now investigate the pics and other threads about the belt per your suggestion.

The pump pin was inch type, so should be about .197" if its nominal 5mm. Certainly
it was a snug fit and the biggest that would go in. Same with the cam, held with gage
blocks achieving the same result as the feeler gauges method. ( Did run a calibration
lab over 25 years so do know a little about measuring stuff )

Jamming up the crank with a screwdriver or something is a good idea to lock it. Did a
successful t-belt change a long time ago but too long ago to remember. Prolly just locked
and marked everything and then replaced the belt with a new one.

That dummy pin hole in the pump is a new one for me. Did not seem to find any shallow
holes and the pin went in quite a long way with no wobble felt at all. Will let you all know
how it works out eventually.

Last edited by Ivoskis; August 18th, 2018 at 00:35. Reason: format
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Old August 18th, 2018, 05:11   #34
Tdijarhead
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If you haven’t seen these instructions for lining up the timing marks, there are plenty of pics. Scroll to the bottom and there is a second page after you’ve been through the first.

https://www.myturbodiesel.com/wiki/a...8-2003-part-1/
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Old August 31st, 2018, 11:54   #35
Ivoskis
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As promised a quick update. Checked the timing mark and pump pin hole alignment and cam alignment and found it or some all off a bit. Did not have much time but it seems all should have been "close enough for government work" after I re-set things a bit.. but still no firing up without glowplug juice.

With a new head and possibly an aftermarket transmission ( which may explain the lack of "as advertised" timing marks on the flywheel ) I will now check compression on all cylinders instead of just the one and again focus on the alignment issues.

From a mechanical point it of view it can be either cam or pump misalignment vs true TDC or air or fuel starvation that prevents start-up, or lack of compression. Is this assumption correct? The pump being mechanical is not really controllable via software, or is it?

After labor day I should again get back to the car and hope to have a bit more time to check things. The last trip there was mainly to xchange 12 of 100lb each 6VDC L-16 batteries from the solar system which powers the place. Now THAT is real labor and left little time for the Jetta.

Last edited by Ivoskis; August 31st, 2018 at 11:56. Reason: format
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Old August 31st, 2018, 12:06   #36
BobnOH
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivoskis View Post
.................."close enough for government work"
Can mean different things, the 3 points should not be off more than mm or so, less than the space between teeth on the belt.
From just a brief reading, concerned you found crank TDC. If you can't locate mark on flywheel (happens), there are other ways. But any 1 of the 3 points off will leave you joyless.
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Old August 31st, 2018, 12:15   #37
Ivoskis
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Thanks Bob. Was not aware the tolerance is less than a mm, which I guess is less than
a degree of arc. Thought (???) if I get it within a tooth of the belt it should at least run,
even if not to teutonic standards.

Last edited by Ivoskis; August 31st, 2018 at 12:15. Reason: format
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Old August 31st, 2018, 12:43   #38
Curious Chris
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Join Date: Jun 2001
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Fuel Economy: 47/42/38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivoskis View Post
Good point about the ECU calling a glow need. My cheepo code reader only gave me a single I think 0380 or was it a 0382 reading, can't remember so ignore this. The little code chart I have said something about a #3 cylinder misfire for that code.

However, the 12V did make the difference. Now, if that negated ANOTHER issue, I really cannot say. It may well be so but I am unable to tell. Do not have a laptop or fancy reader to monitor the ECU ( dont know about the CTS plug either, sorry! )

Figured if I can get the car into at least a limp mode a more competent or better equipped guru can then fine tune it. Ich Dummkopf vill chust sticken die hands in den pocketsen, votch z blinken lites und zen leaven den adjusten to den Experten.
ross-tech wiki is your friend
16764/P0380/000869
Contents
1 16764/P0380/000869 - Glow Plug/Heater (Q6) Circuit: Malfunction
1.1 Possible Symptoms
1.2 Possible Causes
1.3 Possible Solutions
1.4 Special Notes
16764/P0380/000869 - Glow Plug/Heater (Q6) Circuit: Malfunction
Possible Symptoms
No Pre-Glow Period
Poor Cold Starting
Possible Causes
Glow Plug Wiring faulty
Glow Plug faulty
Possible Solutions
Check Glow Plug Wiring
Check Glow Plug
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Old August 31st, 2018, 13:18   #39
BobnOH
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivoskis View Post
Thanks Bob. Was not aware the tolerance is less than a mm, which I guess is less than
a degree of arc. Thought (???) if I get it within a tooth of the belt it should at least run,
even if not to teutonic standards.
Not what I said, less than a mm would be super close.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobnOH View Post
...................the 3 points should not be off more than mm or so, less than the space between teeth on the belt..................
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Old August 31st, 2018, 22:29   #40
Ivoskis
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OK Bob, semantics. Not into splitting hairs or words at this end but I took the "should not be off more than mm" (which is definitely less than a belt groove width) too literally I guess. Sorry, my bust.
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