BEW Glow Plug Question....

It's far from cold up here on the West Coast but I just noticed our Jetta TDI is getting a little grumpy with its "cold" starts. Brief, stumble and a bit of smoke.

Could be many things ranging from a leaky injector, age and or the fact I just recently did a timing belt and have yet to check the torsional/timing values but I got thinking... Is there any possibility the glow plugs have failed (or failing) and have not thrown a CEL? (yet?)

As for a little bit more background, at 175,000km's my local VW, did the flash and conversion to steel plugs. Thing is, that was back in 09, we are now at 410,000km's and its 7 years later! That's 7 years and 235,000 km's with the same steel glow plugs. Is this a "LONG" time for a set of GP's to last or in warm climates is it normal? (no not warm like California but probably no more the few dozen starts below 0 Celsius per year).

Funny enough, almost 6 years ago I purchased a full set of steels GP's from IDP (supposedly for the post ECU flash update) and they are sitting on the shelf. Wondering if I should just throw them in? or should I just wait for a code to be tossed and stick to checking my timing during my next service?

Cheers

Martin

Based on your reasonable temperatures and no code I wouldn't worry about it. And trust me that system is super sensitive to malfunctions -- you would have a light. The plugs do come on every start for a moment but only stay on when temps are below around 40F (correct me if I'm mistaken.) Also depending on which revision you got, there was a second revision that superseded the original recall because the original replacement plugs were 'weak'. They were said to affect super cold regions of Canada mostly. You could do a search for that recall campaign and it should show up.

Edit: Second revision plugs, http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/500/PD_GlowPlugTechBul_12-2010.pdf. There is a revised controller and ECU software required to use them. Some say it works without, but I personally had issues with mix & match.

I would have thought the same about the GP's tossing a code right away except for the fact that last year I had a "over boost" take place and dropped me into limp mode (or what ever VW calls it)... You would think a dramatic 50% loss of power and a default safety event would toss a CEL !.... scared the hell out of me I was looking for money to start pouring out of the exhaust... then somebody suggested looking for the code and sure enough, there it was... and no CEL.

I'm more curious then worried, it was the age of the GP's got me wondering.

Martin

I would have thought the same about the GP's tossing a code right away except for the fact that last year I had a "over boost" take place and dropped me into limp mode (or what ever VW calls it)... You would think a dramatic 50% loss of power and a default safety event would toss a CEL !.... scared the hell out of me I was looking for money to start pouring out of the exhaust... then somebody suggested looking for the code and sure enough, there it was... and no CEL.

I'm more curious then worried, it was the age of the GP's got me wondering.

Martin

Edit, Looks like I'm running the 5v GP's of the first recall. When I got the second recall, (and I'm not a 100% sure with this....) my local VW dealership said something about the second recall only included the NGK GP's and mine was fitted with Bosch. No hard start issues and no need for the update. The whole GP thing is a bit ridiculous as I think we are back to 7v Ceramic? The old 5v metal GP's have been fine for 6 years (and may be fine right now).... Guess I'm lucky that I don't have to crank up the BEW in Fargo in the dead of winter!

Here's how I rationalize VW's interesting choice of what triggers a CEL and what doesn't: OBD2 (and the CELs therein) were mandated in 1996 predominately for subsystems with an emissions-related component.

Glowplug issues will dramatically affect emissions and are carefully monitored... pretty safe to assume if there was a glowplug issue there'd be a CEL.

Turbo under or over-boost, even though the ECU detects it and triggers limp mode, is not a particularly emissions-related issue...sometimes some pending errors but no CEL.

Just my theory.

Vince Waldon said:

Here's how I rationalize VW's interesting choice of what triggers a CEL and what doesn't: OBD2 (and the CELs therein) were mandated in 1996 predominately for subsystems with an emissions-related component.
Glowplug issues will dramatically affect emissions and are carefully monitored... pretty safe to assume if there was a glowplug issue there'd be a CEL.
Turbo under or over-boost, even though the ECU detects it and triggers limp mode, is not a particularly emissions-related issue...sometimes some pending errors but no CEL.
Just my theory.

Click to expand...

I would think that you are correct... I know my BEW is sensitive to the glowplugs and will occasionally throw a code if I don't wait long enough for them to cycle. Shouldn't make any difference, but on at least two occasions the CEL lit when I got in and started it without waiting. SGII confirmed glowplug code each time. Never happens when I wait. Same first recall version of plugs.

I installed the Bosch 5v steelies several or more years ago and only had to replace one since. No reflash either. My GP harness came apart so that was replaced by me just last month when I changed the glow plug. A lot less smoke at initial start-up with these 5v's.

I'd have to agree with Vince and gforce, if the glow plug circuit had any error it would have triggered the light.
CEL logic is sense error "x" times, trigger light. Then normal function "x" times, cancel light, with some exceptions, notably glow plug errors, which also need cleared after repair.

Fair enough on the CEL logic. I did find my torsional values running a bit advanced (1.5)... a bit of debate on what constitutes the correct position but I did back it down to .5 and seems to start a little nicer (in our very mild conditions).

In the process of futzing with the timing I managed to break the upper nipple off of the coolant tank... dooh... temp fixed with some ingenuity and some JB weld, will order a new tank with my next IDP order.

I've got a small oil leak from somewhere on the top back of the engine that needs an inspirational look, probably the new cam cover gasket, or possibly the EGR cooler... Probably just going to leave it alone until I decide to do an intake manifold cleaning (yah I know., BEW's never need cleaning... but noted a bunch gunk when I had to pull the EGR valve to get the cam cover off.... a whole different topic ;-)

Thanks

Martin