EA288 - A diesel way forward?

VeeDubTDI

Wanderluster, Traveler, TDIClub Enthusiast
Joined
Jul 2, 2000
Location
Springfield, VA
TDI
‘18 Tesla Model 3D+, ‘14 Cadillac ELR, ‘13 Fiat 500e
Consumer Reports did a test and found the cheat is worth 3mpg on 2015. More on the 2009-14.
They tested something, but they haven't proven that it was the cheat. Inside indications here of how the cheat actually works indicate that CR did not actually test it. This is discussed quite a bit today in the big emissions thread.
 

panda

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2002
Location
Chichester, NH
TDI
2002 Jetta, 2015 Golf Sportwagen, 2005 Jeep Liberty CRD
If they can't tune the EA288 to meet emissions and get performance, maybe diesel isn't the way forward.

I read a pretty good article here. I would be concerned about your 09 and maybe consider a buy back or just not get it retrofitted if you have that option.

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2015/09/20150921-vw2l.html
I don't think there is any doubt that the systems used on the EA288 and those that can be retrofitted to the earlier engine can meet the emissions standards. The question is and probably has always been what is the cost and not just the cost in dollars. The future may eventually be all electric but we are a long way from there. I think for a good long time it will be how does diesel compare to gas. Oil is cheap now but I don't think anyone believes that's permanent.
 

makattack

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 21, 2015
Location
Boston, MA
TDI
2015 VW Golf Sportwagen TDI/S/Manual
The NY Times reporting VW as saying that newer versions of EA-288 don't have the cheat and comply. Here's the link: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/23/b...column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news

I'm confused -- are the 2015 GSW TDIs part of the non-compliant group or not?
If you plug in your VIN on the VW-NA website to lookup recalls, I'm sure you'll see the same message I see about my vehicle being affected, but no date/action yet being available.

http://www.vw.com/content/vwcom/en/owners-recalls.html

My best guess is that the SCR system will have to be adjusted to potentially use more AdBlue which may necessitate refilling it before the 10K interval. I don't know at this point. The original WVU study included a Passat with the SCR system, and that had lower NOx emissions, but still not within legal levels.
 

jfc2697

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 16, 2015
Location
Maryland
TDI
2015 Golf TDI 6Speed
If you plug in your VIN on the VW-NA website to lookup recalls, I'm sure you'll see the same message I see about my vehicle being affected, but no date/action yet being available.

http://www.vw.com/content/vwcom/en/owners-recalls.html

My best guess is that the SCR system will have to be adjusted to potentially use more AdBlue which may necessitate refilling it before the 10K interval. I don't know at this point. The original WVU study included a Passat with the SCR system, and that had lower NOx emissions, but still not within legal levels.
I checked my car it was affected and i got my golf in July 2015. Then had fill out some info for updates
 

charley654

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2009
Location
Central Texas
TDI
2015 GSW S DSG
I checked my car it was affected and i got my golf in July 2015. Then had fill out some info for updates
They are all affected, they all have the cheater code embedded. Once the code is cleared it will be a different story.
Lets hope the EA288 will be an easy and painless fix.
 

the beave

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 19, 2015
Location
seattle washington
TDI
2015 Jetta TDI S
Note that the 2016 EA288 engined cars are not part of the EPA letter. I've been told that this is because they don't have the defeat device. They passed emissions without it. I haven't verified this, but the big "40 times" number that fearmongers are throwing around is from a non-SCR car. The amount the SCR cars (Passat, '15 EA288), is far less.

Dealers expect '16s to be available soon. Recalls for the older cars will take more time.

It's funny though that my 2015 Jetta TDI S, when I put in the VIN number into VW's website to see if it's affected, it comes up 'Yes, your vehicle IS affected by this issue'.

But then, Car and Driver say's it got a letter from VW this past week saying that all EA288 engine equipped cars are NOT affected. So what the deal is I don't know. Heck I can't even tell IF i've got an EA288 on my 2015, there is no mention of it on the Sticker and I have no way of definitively knowing what type of engine it is.

the beave
 

andyrooski17

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Sep 23, 2014
Location
Newton, MA
TDI
2015 Golf TDI SE DSG
It's funny though that my 2015 Jetta TDI S, when I put in the VIN number into VW's website to see if it's affected, it comes up 'Yes, your vehicle IS affected by this issue'.
But then, Car and Driver say's it got a letter from VW this past week saying that all EA288 engine equipped cars are NOT affected. So what the deal is I don't know. Heck I can't even tell IF i've got an EA288 on my 2015, there is no mention of it on the Sticker and I have no way of definitively knowing what type of engine it is.
the beave
If I recall the same C&D article as you, they were saying the EA288 engines in Europe are fine, but it makes no specific mention to North America with the different standards.
 

the beave

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 19, 2015
Location
seattle washington
TDI
2015 Jetta TDI S
Beave here.

So the question I have is how do I identify my engine??
Is it a code in my VIN number? Is it on the engine itself??
And also, did they keep using the EA189 after they put the
EA288 into use???

I've looked all over google and all I get is old information on older
VW's. How Frustrating.......

And thanks to anybody in advance.

the beave
 

charley654

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2009
Location
Central Texas
TDI
2015 GSW S DSG
Beave here.

So the question I have is how do I identify my engine??
Is it a code in my VIN number? Is it on the engine itself??
And also, did they keep using the EA189 after they put the
EA288 into use???

I've looked all over google and all I get is old information on older
VW's. How Frustrating.......

And thanks to anybody in advance.

the beave
You can easily tell.
3 easy ways:

1)open your diesel fuel filler door, is there a urea filler port - blue cap? EA288
or
just a diesel fuel filler EA 189

2)Stand front of the car with the hood open.
Is the oil fill cap on the top- right hand side - that is a EA288 with Urea
or
oil fill cap on the top left hand side, that is the EA189- no Urea

3) also...
look and see if you can find the oil filter, if it is just front of the engine by your right hand.
-------
38 second into this video , shows the location
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CIbPPJN3Ic

that is the EA 189 engine for USA.
-----------

EA288 has the oil filter in the bottom
 
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the beave

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 19, 2015
Location
seattle washington
TDI
2015 Jetta TDI S
You can easily tell.
3 easy ways:

1)open your diesel fuel filler door, is there a urea filler port - blue cap? EA288
or
just a diesel fuel filler EA 189

2)Stand front of the car with the hood open.
Is the oil fill cap on the top- right hand side - that is a EA288 with Urea
or
oil fill cap on the top left hand side, that is the EA189- no Urea

3) also...
look and see if you can find the oil filter, if it is just front of the engine by your right hand.
-------
38 second into this video , shows the location
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CIbPPJN3Ic

that is the EA 189 engine for USA.
-----------

EA288 has the oil filter in the bottom
Charley654 You ARE the man!! I'll check this when I get home. Excellent data. If I remember the gas cap is Black but i'm not sure, it's too early in the morning. I do know that in the right side of the trunk compartment there is a black reservoir tank that is mounted to the right rear side just in from the lip of the trunk opening. But I'll check the others out later today.
So thank you again, very nice and very good information.

the beave in Seattle
 

JDenyer232

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2015
Location
Maine
TDI
2015 Jetta TDI S
Charley654 You ARE the man!! I'll check this when I get home. Excellent data. If I remember the gas cap is Black but i'm not sure, it's too early in the morning. I do know that in the right side of the trunk compartment there is a black reservoir tank that is mounted to the right rear side just in from the lip of the trunk opening. But I'll check the others out later today.
So thank you again, very nice and very good information.

the beave in Seattle
Your car has the EA288 engine. That reservoir in the trunk is the adblue tank, aka urea/scr fluid. I have the same car as you, and it's definitly the EA288. Hope this helps.
 

badufay

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Joined
May 16, 2014
Location
Olympia, WA
TDI
2017 GTI S, 6 spd man; 2017 Jetta SE TSI, 5 spd man
Your car has the EA288 engine. That reservoir in the trunk is the adblue tank, aka urea/scr fluid. I have the same car as you, and it's definitly the EA288. Hope this helps.
This is correct info. I have a 15 Golf TDI and a 15 Jetta TDI, both use ad blue, the Golf's filler is by the fuel door, the Jetta one sits in the trunk. Both also have the EA288 motor. I have noticed most people do not realize the Jetta was drastically changed in 2015, but since VW kept the Jetta as an MK6 it goes unnoticed and assumed that there were no major changes.

Ben
 

makattack

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Joined
Sep 21, 2015
Location
Boston, MA
TDI
2015 VW Golf Sportwagen TDI/S/Manual
...the Golf's filler is by the fuel door, the Jetta one sits in the trunk. Both also have the EA288 motor....
Ah ha! I saw another thread where someone complained about a dealer refilling their adblue tank and leaving a mess in the trunk. I wondered "how the heck does that happen?"

Didn't realize the Jetta had the refill point inside the trunk.
 

the beave

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 19, 2015
Location
seattle washington
TDI
2015 Jetta TDI S
Your car has the EA288 engine. That reservoir in the trunk is the adblue tank, aka urea/scr fluid. I have the same car as you, and it's definitly the EA288. Hope this helps.

Yes it does JD and thanks for that info.

You know, as a newbie VW guy I'm having a good time getting to know the vehicle and the Community people here on the TDI forums. It's funny watching this 'Diesel Gate' thing and all the different types of people here go at it.
Reminds me of some of the discussions I've participated in the Steve Hoffman Music Forum, especially when the subject is the Beatles.......LOL!!

But as a 56 yo average guy going from a Chevy Silverado as my day to day drive to this Jetta S, it's definitely a different monster, but the thing really is fun to drive. It's far from perfect, but hell, for $20K I get a really good looking car with a Stereo that's better than the Silverado, It drives like a sportscar and now I'm beginning to see what you VW Diesel people have known for years, and it's very Fun!! And the DieselGate thing doesn't bother me at all. Up here in Washington State diesel passenger cars are not required to get smogged.

So again, thanks to you and the other posters that have answered my question. I really do appreciate it......
have a good day.....
the beave
 
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J.R.

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 2, 2015
Location
Vancouver
TDI
2017 Sportwagon TDI?
Still no solid info on the 288 as yet it seems...moving about as fast (not!) as expected though I guess...lol

Hopefully we'll have a better idea by the November 20 deadline imposed by CARB.
 

the beave

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 19, 2015
Location
seattle washington
TDI
2015 Jetta TDI S
Still no solid info on the 288 as yet it seems...moving about as fast (not!) as expected though I guess...lol

Hopefully we'll have a better idea by the November 20 deadline imposed by CARB.
Well I'm not concerned really. Up here in Washington state there are no emission tests required for passenger Diesel Cars and the Jetta really is a cool little car to tool around in. It looks so innocuous while I'm putting along sounding diesel and up comes a bmw next to me at a light, and I'm putting through 1st with him and then go into second and PUNCH IT..............................................................................................................................................................:eek::eek::eek:

I Love the expressions on their faces in the rear view mirror..........
all this and 45.53 mpg combined........:D

the beave
 

J.R.

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 2, 2015
Location
Vancouver
TDI
2017 Sportwagon TDI?
Well I'm not concerned really. Up here in Washington state there are no emission tests required for passenger Diesel Cars and the Jetta really is a cool little car to tool around in. It looks so innocuous while I'm putting along sounding diesel and up comes a bmw next to me at a light, and I'm putting through 1st with him and then go into second and PUNCH IT..............................................................................................................................................................:eek::eek::eek:
I Love the expressions on their faces in the rear view mirror..........
all this and 45.53 mpg combined........:D
the beave
Yeah, some of us haven't bought yet though and were hoping to pick up a 2016/2017 and want to know what's up and when they'll be available for sale again ;)
 

john.jackson9213

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Mar 14, 2007
Location
Miramar, Ca. (Think Top Gun)
TDI
1996 B4V
Rumors I hear from dealers are January.
What do you hear about how many GSW TDI's are sitting at the docks waiting for emission certifications?

Thinking VW may be putting some big dealer cash out there to move them once they do hit the retail showrooms. You know, "damaged goods" market perception, etc. Then they may just wait to see how many move at full price before they offer consumer/dealer cash.

I should have purchased the GSW TDI the dealer was showing at the TDIFest.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
That one's still available. :D

I've heard talk of incentives, too, especially on '15s as it'll be '16 before VW can sell them, most likely.
 

jfc2697

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 16, 2015
Location
Maryland
TDI
2015 Golf TDI 6Speed
I herd there be giving tdi owners a customer care package with maybe a gift card.
 

charley654

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2009
Location
Central Texas
TDI
2015 GSW S DSG
I herd there be giving tdi owners a customer care package with maybe a gift card.
Don't hold your breath on that...
A care package?
I would be glad if they just come up with something that does not screw up my car.
A fuel card of some sort would be nice. But like I said - wishful thinking.

Where did you hear the care package comment? I would think VW would say anything like that.
 

adjat84th

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Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Location
Virginia Beach, VA
TDI
'01 Jetta TDI/'15 Golf TDI
Yeah, some of us haven't bought yet though and were hoping to pick up a 2016/2017 and want to know what's up and when they'll be available for sale again ;)
I could be swayed to purchase another new TDI as my work mileage program is changing next year, and a new car would actually more than pay for itself. I'd really not like to get out of my '01, but a supreme discount on a '15/'16 could change my mind. January would be perfect timing.
 

lanfinson

New member
Joined
Mar 25, 2011
Location
Pierson, Iowa
TDI
1997 Passat TDI
It's affected

I found this UK VW web site and entered my VIN. It said my '15 Golf TDI is not affected? Mine was an early '15 model build. I wonder if all it is checking are TDIs sold in the UK and why doesn't the U.S. VW web site have the same thing? I would be interested to hear the result if someone who purchased theirs late summer enters their VIN.
http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/owners/dieselinfo
I bought my 2015 Passat TDI on July 21, 2015 and was notified that this car is on the list for an emissions recall. It is equipped with the ea 288 engine. I'm going to drag my feet before taking it back to the dealer till I find out what a computer reflash does to the performance and mileage. I have got as high as 54 MPG on the interstate and I don't want to lose it.
 

TurnOne

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Joined
Sep 22, 2014
Location
Cincinnati, OH
TDI
2015 Golf SEL TDI 6MT
I just got back from my 30k service. They informed me there is an emmission update available but it's been out a while and it's not a fix for the current hoopla.
 

VW_TDi_

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Location
California
TDI
2015 Golf-S TDi with DSG
I hope they have some sort of buy back or a trade in incentive. I may consider a golf R and continue enjoying my ALH on the weekdays.
 
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