TDI with a 4L65 automatic in a Jeep TJ

mcneil

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2010
Location
Pasadena, CA
TDI
2010 Golf TDI 4dr, 2001 Jetta TDI, Jeep TDI project
Power steering pressure line is in.



It's part of the stock line with the hose cut off and a AN-6 fitting brazed on. The hose is teflon lined steel braid with AN ends, and the local hydraulic shop came up with a straight thread to AN-6 adapter for the pump.



The intercooler & radiator is back out, because I've been working on the water neck and vac pump and it's nice to be able to stand on the axle and lean over the engine.

The MT water neck with a blockoff plate fits great

 

mcneil

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2010
Location
Pasadena, CA
TDI
2010 Golf TDI 4dr, 2001 Jetta TDI, Jeep TDI project
I may have solved my vac pump issue. I modified the pump housing to use a different check valve that doesn't point straight at the firewall. I'd give it a 50/50 shot of actually working, but it's definitely cheaper than buying an electric vacuum pump.



Drilled & tapped 1/8" NPT, going to use a low-cracking pressure check valve from McMaster. The aluminum plug is to take up the free volume behind the check valve.

 

mcneil

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2010
Location
Pasadena, CA
TDI
2010 Golf TDI 4dr, 2001 Jetta TDI, Jeep TDI project
It looks like my vac pump mod worked! The brass nipple is a low cracking pressure check valve from McMaster that I ran a die up to deepen the threads. There's an aluminum plug to fill up the free volume inside that's set in place with RTV. I put this together, oiled it, and spun it up with a drill and it seemed to generate vacuum. Might not pull the same flow as the stock pump, but I have a supplemental vac pump from an old Audi I can throw in if it needs it.




Firewall clearance achieved

 

mcneil

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2010
Location
Pasadena, CA
TDI
2010 Golf TDI 4dr, 2001 Jetta TDI, Jeep TDI project
Just ordered up a MegaShift transmission controller kit. This should be interesting. The MS people make it stupid easy to order, one click sends the whole bill of materials to Digikey. They also sell the board with all the SMC installed.. thank god, because my soldering isn't good enough to not end up with at least one cold solder joint.

Spent several evenings this week sandblasting and powdercoating parts. Fuel fill neck, accelerator bracket, and a couple other assorted brackets. But no pictures because I seem to have misplaced my camera.
 

mcneil

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2010
Location
Pasadena, CA
TDI
2010 Golf TDI 4dr, 2001 Jetta TDI, Jeep TDI project
Found the camera.. some pictures of the pedal bracket. There's a tab at the bottom added as a throttle stop, and the steel bracket attaches to the body at the old accelerator pedal studs and one bolt through the hole where the throttle cable used to run.





 

mcneil

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2010
Location
Pasadena, CA
TDI
2010 Golf TDI 4dr, 2001 Jetta TDI, Jeep TDI project
More progress on various parts:

Bracket for the fuel filter, regulator, and some other parts. The funny shape is because it's the old vac system bracket from the Jeep motor.



You know what sucks about welding aluminum? It's all got to be clean. You know what sucks about getting it all clean? You scrub off your sharpie marks telling you which end is which. I had welded the reducing section to the wrong end of this elbow, so I cut it off and put it on the correct end.




Fun with Clecos. This is me starting to fab up a modified air box lid that can mount the MAF. A project at work just wrapped up 2 months of aluminum sheet metal fab, so we had tons of scrap leftover to play with.



MAF mounts here:



Next up, I have to get this thing tuned. Immo delete, match VIN to the jeep, maybe some other things to make it behave just like a stock 2001 Jetta. I need to get it running like a 90HP VE out of a 2001 Mk4, then I can start playing with stuff.

 

mcneil

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2010
Location
Pasadena, CA
TDI
2010 Golf TDI 4dr, 2001 Jetta TDI, Jeep TDI project
When I ordered the MegaShift from DIYautotune, I also got the Transtim transmission simulator board. It's a bunch of switches, LEDs, and pots which imitate the behavior of the transmission's solenoids and sensors. This lets you tune the controller on the bench without doing something stupid like energizing all the solenoids at once and locking up the transmission at road speeds. The support for the MegaShift/MegaSquirt products is awesome - step by step instructions, well documented.. even the digikey order was just one-click to send the BOM into the Digikey cart.

Before: A bare PCB and a pile of parts




After: Seems legit
 

mcneil

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2010
Location
Pasadena, CA
TDI
2010 Golf TDI 4dr, 2001 Jetta TDI, Jeep TDI project
I've been ordering up parts all December so now I've got a good stockpile of stuff to do over the holiday break.



Transmission shifter from Novak
Ducting from MAF to turbo
Coolant reservoir and some other plastic bits
AC evaporator - I'm not going to hook up the AC lines for a while, but I figure I'll put the evap in the HVAC box when I put it back together so I don't have to tear it out again.
Remote transmission filter and mount
AC clutch plate to replace the one I borrowed off the jeep motor for the Jetta.
And a box from IDparts with glow plugs and hose that's not pictured.

Some observations on quality - the Novak stuff is first-rate. I used their 241OR/4L60 adapter and output shaft already. This shifter kit replaces the bell crank mechanism on the TJs with a robust shift cable and some simple brackets. It's $100 cheaper than the Advance adapter kit, doesn't hack up the shifter, and uses all the stock mounting holes. The only hangup is that it's designed for the TJ 241ORs, and I had to modify the shifter arm on my JK 241OR for their bushing.

The Derale filter housing was crap. The seal surface took a lot of cleanup and there were burrs and casting debris in the flow passages. Lucky me, someone had the big flycutter already setup in the mill at work, so I ran one pass to flatten it out.

 

mcneil

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2010
Location
Pasadena, CA
TDI
2010 Golf TDI 4dr, 2001 Jetta TDI, Jeep TDI project
The filter resurfacing came out good, and I got it mounted up underneath the battery tray.








The Novak shifter went in great, except that it's definitely intended for the TJ 241ORs, and I'm using a JK 241OR. The difference is the 4WD select switch on the TJ units is much smaller, and also when installed in a TJ it's not usually tucked up so close to the body. I kept the drivetrain up as close to the tunnel (and in some cases, too close) to maximize ground clearance.



The result is that the t-case shifter lever hits the selector switch.. right here:



Here's the top view of the interfering switch.




The switch is threaded into the case with something like a .060" thread pitch. So a .030" shim washer rotated the connector 180 deg, and a small bend on the arm made good clearance.



The bend radius on the cable is about 4", which is tighter than the 5" spec from Novak, but everything still shifts smoothly. It's actually a smoother shift than I had with the stock 231 linkages.
 

mcneil

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2010
Location
Pasadena, CA
TDI
2010 Golf TDI 4dr, 2001 Jetta TDI, Jeep TDI project
I should have done more on the transmission shifter before I put the body back on. The options for shifters were a Jeep stock shifter, the Lokar kit, or adapting something from B&M or Hurst. The Lokar kit would have been the least fab, or at least until I found out it hit the console or something since it sticks up a good deal from the floor. But it and the other shifters really were meant for were pretty pricey and meant for drag racers or street cars (reverse lockouts, etc).

I decided to use the Jeep shifter, for above reasons and for the general goal of keeping a deceptively stock appearance. The problem is that the jeep shifter moves the cable 2", and the shortest shift arm I could find for the 4L65 needed 2.5".

I sat down one afternoon and worked out all the angles & distances for the shifters.


By making my own selector arm, I could change the attachment point to get the 4L65 to move through all the gears with only 2" of travel.


Here's my collection of shift arms - the three hole one is by B&M, the single one is the GM, and the brick of 3/8" steel is what I made. Just a few extra holes so I can have some options.

 

mcneil

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2010
Location
Pasadena, CA
TDI
2010 Golf TDI 4dr, 2001 Jetta TDI, Jeep TDI project
I'm using the coat-hanger-autozone method for coolant hoses. I bend a coat hanger into the shape I need for the coolant hose, and then take the coat hanger into the back room at Autozone to find the closest match for coolant hoses on their rack.

In case you're wondering, here's the diameters of the cooling system connections:

Raditaor hose sizes OD (inches)
Jeep Radiator Inlet (top) 1.260
Jeep Radiator Outlet (bottom) 1.510
Jeep heater core inlet 0.625
Jeep heater core outlet 0.750
Engine inlet (block) 1.270
Engine heater return pipe 0.780
Engine outlet (cylinder head) 1.270


Of course, nothing is a perfect fit. Some hoses bend left when they should bend right.. so there's some cutting & splicing needed to make the right shape. Jags That Run/Stealth Conversions makes awesome aluminum coolant hose connectors, cheaply, and they ship fast.

They also use quality aluminum which welds really easy. This tee with a bracket welded onto it was only my 4th or 5th aluminum welding job, and it came out pretty good.



It's starting to look like a proper engine bay:



The power steering became the first fluidic system to get buttoned up. I added a filter to the return line to give the VW pump some extra protection. Once TDINT shares his pump mod secret, I'm might do that.
The pump inlet line is 5/8" hose, and the return line from the box to the reservoir is 3/8" hose. I wanted to get a new or at least a cleaner PS reservoir, since the old jeep system was pretty nasty. Turns out you can't buy these anywhere new - no body sells a reservoir for the jeep 2.5L, and the few dealers that have one want $300+ for it. So I cleaned it out as best I could with VW green gold and added the filter.

 

jimbote

Certified Volkswagen Nut
Joined
Jul 10, 2006
Location
spiral arm, milky way (aka central NC)
TDI
Tacoma 4x4 converted to TDI
looking good !!... can't wait to see how the trans shift controller works out ... i'm with ya on the bent coathanger method ... had to make a few trips to the parts store myself with one in hand :)
 

CopaMundial

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 30, 2011
Location
Southeastern PA
TDI
03 Jetta Wagon 5sp (New to me Oct 2014) 03 Jetta 5sp (RIP Aug 2014)
Looking great.

When I saw that photo of the shift arm you made (w/ multiple holes) my first thought was that it was a rigging plate like you would use in climbing or vertical rescue work.




Looking at all that room in the front of engine bay makes you want to do a timing belt job 'just because'.

Where are you going to stuff the ECU?
 

mcneil

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2010
Location
Pasadena, CA
TDI
2010 Golf TDI 4dr, 2001 Jetta TDI, Jeep TDI project
I thought getting at the back of the motor would be a challenge, but there's actually enough room to stand on the front axle and lean over the motor. :)

The holes came in handy, I ended up using the one just below the one used in the pic.

I'm thinking the ECU is going to go into the cab - I might put it right behind the glovebox so it's easily accessible.
 

mcneil

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2010
Location
Pasadena, CA
TDI
2010 Golf TDI 4dr, 2001 Jetta TDI, Jeep TDI project
The transmission cooler lines are in:





-6 AN stainless steel tubing & fittings, though some fittings are aluminum.

anplumbing.com really came through for me - they ship fast, cheap, and had the 5/8 IF to -6AN fitting to connect up to the jeep radiator (part number 991947).

I got the custom hoses and tubing flared at Amerray Hydraulics, who included some of the soft copper gaskets to use in all the flares. I tried flaring myself, with this POS:



This is worthless, unless you are flaring toilet paper tubes. Trying to do a 3/8 SS line with this is a joke. Even the tube is laughing. I put it in the vise, added 3 extra C-clamps, and the tube still just pushed through the hole, unscathed. This tool does nothing to SS line.

The best way I found to do the tube to hose connection is to braze on a male AN fitting. Pegasus Racing sells these, $4 ea, and it's cheaper and easier than flaring. All the hose ends are female, so if you flare, you have to pay someone to flare the tube, then you have to buy male-male adapters to put it together.

If you're like me and don't have the skills of some of the TIG aces around here, brazing is the best option. I actually used a silver solder, since the Pegasus fittings are steel and my tube was 301SS. Harris has a good chart for looking up compatibilities of materials, and I've been using the SafetySilv 56 and the Stay Silv flux.

 

jimbote

Certified Volkswagen Nut
Joined
Jul 10, 2006
Location
spiral arm, milky way (aka central NC)
TDI
Tacoma 4x4 converted to TDI
I've run into crappy flaring tools before ... i have one good one but it's about sixty years old ... the crappy ones all seem to have the same slipping issue, if you face em' with a belt sander and remove some material it might help the grip
 

mcneil

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2010
Location
Pasadena, CA
TDI
2010 Golf TDI 4dr, 2001 Jetta TDI, Jeep TDI project
Problem!
I set out to crank over the engine a bit, after giving it fresh oil & filter I wanted to get things moving and sort out the battery cables. The Jeep cables fit with little modification, but the problem was the starter.



I had measured & tested the starter when I was making the flexplate, but it was on a bare block with the crank, so no compression. I should have checked it out more closely, because as it turns out the teeth were only engaged about .030". When I tried spinning it up this weekend, it just stripped the tip of the teeth off the starter gear. Which was a relief - starters I can get anywhere, the ring gear I had to weld up. This is the starter by the way, a reman unit from Autozone.



Minor teeth damage, but I'm not running it again and taking a chance of damaging my one-of-a-kind ring gear/flex plate.





So I went back and checked all my CAD dimensions, and everything I setup looked right. The ring gear spacing and everything looked good, and checked with measurements. Nothing wrong there. So I pulled the starter apart to use the nose casting for measurements:



This is the front casting of the starter bolted in. I didn't realize these were gear reduction units, btw. There's a planetary gear set at the front of the starter motor.

Aluminum washer in this pic is about the diameter of the starter pinon gear. We have an engagement problem.



Sketched on CAD, just the tips of the teeth touch.




Not sure how this occured.. everything should be matched up to a typical VW industrial starter/ring gear alignment. But by my estimates, that starter needs to be about .070" closer to the ring gear.

Did VW make different size ring gears for TDIs or gassers? Everything I've seen is about 287mm dia (11 5/16")

Is it possible different starters would vary their centerline position by .070 or more?

Do different starters have different diameter pinion gears? This one's is about .980" (or was before I tried cranking, I should say).

Anyway, most likely, I'm going to end up machining a circular spacer to offset the starter by .070".
 

mcneil

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2010
Location
Pasadena, CA
TDI
2010 Golf TDI 4dr, 2001 Jetta TDI, Jeep TDI project
An email from Marshall Industrial straightened me out. The starter ring gears used in the automotive applications were 280mm, and 122 teeth. The industrial engines got a 287mm ring gear with 135 teeth. I found that pdf drawing of TDI industrial engines floating around the web, and made the bad assumption that the ring gears would be the same.

They're not.

So I made this: a plug that lets me use feeler gauges to measure where the starter actually is.



Based on those measurements, I might be able to make this work by slotting the bottom bolt hole of the starter and making a shim to push it 3mm closer.
Like this (shim not shown):



Based on the measurements, if I move the starter .129" closer at the centerline, I should be good.

 

mcneil

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2010
Location
Pasadena, CA
TDI
2010 Golf TDI 4dr, 2001 Jetta TDI, Jeep TDI project
Success.

I added a 3mm shim on the side of the starter, machined out the lower bolt hole, and used a 3/8-16" bolt & nut. Undersizing the bolt made it cleaner, since I didn't have to blow out the hole completely and could leave more material.

It's ugly, but it fits and it cranks. I'm going to keep going with it like this, but I know I'm going to have to come back and put in the proper sized ring gear eventually.
 

mcneil

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2010
Location
Pasadena, CA
TDI
2010 Golf TDI 4dr, 2001 Jetta TDI, Jeep TDI project
Trying to sort out the cooling hose situation right now. So far I've made good use of some of the old jeep hoses and also some of the hoses from the TDI donor car. The hard line for the reservoir was perfect for coming around from the back of the head. I plan to have the line from the back of the head tie into the plastic 1-1/4x1-1/4x5/16 tee with the coolant sensor. This puts it at the highest spot on the motor and makes an easy way to bleed all the air out.



My work area is a total mess. I've been on a blitz this last month. I'm leaving my current job Friday and while the new place I'm going is an awesome opportunity, I'm not sure what their policy is on personal projects in the shop. I get a week off between jobs, so I'll clean everything up then.

 

mcneil

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2010
Location
Pasadena, CA
TDI
2010 Golf TDI 4dr, 2001 Jetta TDI, Jeep TDI project
It's been busy at the new job, but the one week break between jobs was great. All the mechanicals are buttoned up, with just a few lingering problems.

My battery tender was able to ressurect the DieHard AGM battery that sat for 2 years.. barely. Lesson learned, keep a charge on it. :rolleyes:

Having the fender off make it convenient to do battery cables and transmission lines.



The shifters work, although the transfer case shifter could still hit the 4WD indicator harness connector when things are flexing. The transmission shifter works great, real firm shifts and the detents lined up except for 1st gear. By the way, don't try to drill or cut the sector plate on one of these shifters, it's seriously hardened steel.




The radiator has water, the trans has fluid, and everything cranks and shifts.

Next up is wiring. No problem, right?
 

mcneil

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2010
Location
Pasadena, CA
TDI
2010 Golf TDI 4dr, 2001 Jetta TDI, Jeep TDI project
Right. (seriously, not a problem)
True, true.. 2 hours today and I had the ignition circuit sorted out with it cranking off the key. Jeep made it easy by using 99% identical harnesses for auto & manual with the only difference being whether the jumper is at the PRNDL or clutch switch connection. I jumped both for now, because I'm on the fence about whether I want use either the pedal or Park/Neutral to limit cranking.

I have one of the engine harnesses pared down already, and the other's about 50% done.

The only challenge is going to be finding a happy marriage between my MegaShift transmission controller, the accel pedal, and the Arduino that controls the instrument cluster.
 

jimbote

Certified Volkswagen Nut
Joined
Jul 10, 2006
Location
spiral arm, milky way (aka central NC)
TDI
Tacoma 4x4 converted to TDI
Right. (seriously, not a problem)
ditto ^^.... i just cut one down on my livingroom floor the other day when i was "snowed in" ... with just paring down an alh harness you can have a running loom with just two grounds, one wire to the battery and one wire to key on/start ... just add in the ancillaries (tach, cel, glow lamp, cruise etc.) as you need them ;)
 

Burning Oil

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 15, 2008
Location
Houston
TDI
2002 Golf TDI
Hi mcneil, awesome thread. I read it a couple weeks ago front to back.
Im in the middle of a convertion myself (TDI in a Sonoma). I'll also use the 4L60E.
My question is: I saw in the very first post you said you had a torque converter built for yours. What stall speed did you go with?
I have my TC at the shop right now, but we are unsure what to tune it to for stall speed. If I were to guess I'd set it at 1800-1900 RPM, what say you?
 

EGK

Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2013
Location
California
TDI
1997 Jetta, 2002 Jetta, 2002 Jetta
Here's the intercooler piping route. Stretch your imagination and pretend that's a huge FMIC there instead of the smog-required OEM one. I'd say there's no reason not to put the IC up front on a jeep swap. And if you're not in California, there's no good reason to use the OEM one. It uses all 3" of the radiator spacing and is still tight.
From my experience with smog checks on diesels once you are cleared by the referee you can throw in a big FMIC because the smog check guys wont know what to make of your swap and they are the first to admit they don't know every car. If you have the stamp of approval from the referee you will pass smog from then on out. I passed smog on my Jetta TDi and I had a huge FMIC with 2.5 in pipes. All pipes were aluminum with blue silicone couplings so I covered them with 2.5 in black split loom to de-bling-ify the engine bay. Same goes for the cat. The referee will want the stock one, the smog check guys will just want any cat there even if it is hollow. You can also have a tune on your ECU because contrary to popular belief neither the smog check nor the referee know what maps are written on your ECU EEPROMS. I watched the smog guy hook my Dodge Ram up to the computer and I had a 100hp tune on it and I pass the test no problem. All a diesel smog check is in California is a visual and smoke check by revving the engine. In the visual check they look for things obviously missing and Joe smog check man can't tell the difference between a stock FMIC/Turbo/cat and a aftermarket one PROVIDED it is not anodized purple or something that brings attention to it. The visual check is all about subtlety.
 

EGK

Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2013
Location
California
TDI
1997 Jetta, 2002 Jetta, 2002 Jetta
I'm going to be controlling the gauges with an Arduino and a Melexis 10407 gauge driver. This is my first serious microcontroller project, so expect some learning & evolution. The way it works, the Arduino will read analog values from sensors or other inputs and write a command to the Melexis over a SPI bus. The Melexis generates the appropriate PWM signals to move the needles to the commanded locations.
The idea is that I can bolt the instrument cluster back into the dash without having to mess with any of the wiring for lights or turn signals. Anytime I need to make a calibration change, I just reprogram the Arduino. The only other wiring I have to do is the check-engine light, which thanks to Jimbote is pretty easy.
If I am not mistaken your model year Wrangler uses a CCD bus? I think in 2003 they cheanged to the PCI bus and the gauge cluster was updated with all LED's and some extra lights like "Front Lock" and "Rear Lock" for the Rubicon models. What commands are you sending the Melexis 10407 gauge driver over the serial line? Are they AT commands like the ELM327? Can I see your arduino code? I want to do something similar with my 85 cherokee diesel that I am swapping a 2001 dashboard into.
 
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