New Passat Owner- Growing pains!

quint

Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2011
Location
Pensacola, FL
TDI
2005 Passat tdi
Long story short, found an bought a 05 Passat tdi, 86K from a non VW dealership. After a short test drive, the first time I had ever driven a tdi, all systems seemed fine with only a airbag light on, which I can live with. Paid the place, and on the drive home, within a few miles of the dealership, you guessed it, the check engine light lit up. Well it was late and I had 200 miles ahead of me so we took it to the house, as it was driving fine.
I took it to the dealer here in Pensacola, and they told me codes P0741 and P3102 came up. I have since spent numerous hours reading about this not so rare code. I agreed to have the tranny flushed/service which did not yield any chunks of metal, though they said the fluid was dirty??? On the test drive their ace said it was shifting fine in all gears, though it was not going into overdrive. I drove home @78mph at 2700rpm, I did not know any different. They said that was not overdrive. I was also told the operating temp was some 30 degrees from where it was supposed to be, and they wanted to install a new thermostat. Is it possible for all of this to be tied together?? I have heard was sounds like water running through something in the dash, mainly during acceleration.:confused::confused:
Am I getting the run around???
thanks in advance, Quint
 

mountain-valleymotors

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Feb 25, 2007
Location
Harrisonburg Virginia
TDI
2013 Passat TDI
Well first off you need a new torque converter and possibly a new transmission. the reason your RPMs are higher than they should be is that the T/C is not locking up. This will eventually overheat your fluid and possibly damage the rest of the transmission if it hasn't already. The gurgling noise you hear in the dash is somewhat normal when the engine is cold but it should go away after the car warms up. If it doesn't then your anti-freeze is probably low. Could be leaking somewhere.

I hope you also know that the car is due for a Timing Belt/Water Pump change and also will need a Balance Shaft Module replacement unless you want to take a chance on grenading your engine. Might as well do it all while your in there.
 

abctdi

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 31, 2004
Location
ABQ, NM, USA
TDI
2005 Passat GLS
Welcome to the club, so to speak.
Dirty tranny fluid is common and are the gurgling sounds after first starting.
Your OD does not seem to be working, which could be bad.
Not sure about P3102 or if the T-stat could be related.
How did they measure the temp and was it high or low?
 

quint

Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2011
Location
Pensacola, FL
TDI
2005 Passat tdi
I did realize the timing belt/water pump would need to be done soon. I felt as though the deal was more than fair, I just had no idea the tranny was going to be an issue this early on.

I am assuming they measured the temp by the in dash gauge, it does move as the car first warms up, I believe they said it was about 30 degrees cooler.


On a different note, I would have bought a manual if they made them. I wanted the bigger sedan instead of the Jetta. Can you do a tranny swap to a manual if the tranny is shot?

I should hear more today, I will keep posting the results, hopefully this will not end too painful.
Quint
 

abctdi

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 31, 2004
Location
ABQ, NM, USA
TDI
2005 Passat GLS
The in dash gage is a joke, so I hope they actually measured the temp.
It does move as the car warms up, but don't be fooled by those numbers on it.
Which dealer sold it? They should have known about the P0741, must have cleared it and hoped it didn't show up during the test drive.
Which dealer is looking at it now?
 
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quint

Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2011
Location
Pensacola, FL
TDI
2005 Passat tdi
I bought if from Lakeside Toyota in Matarie, La, they refuse to do anything beside tell me they did not turn any light off and I bought a used car as is.
It is now at Pete Moore VW dealership, not convinced they are experts yet, though they have communicated well at every point.
If anyone can recommend an individual in the Panhandle, I would take it to them for a second opinion.
Should I expect them to 'find something', or is it what it is and a new TC is the only answer? Can we test the TC in hopes the tranny is OK?
 

Dr. Greenthumb

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2011
Location
Denver
TDI
05' Passat GLS 95' Merc E300D
Personally I would bring the dealer the car and get my money back, unless they repair the problems.
 

quint

Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2011
Location
Pensacola, FL
TDI
2005 Passat tdi
Dr, if it were that easy I would. Any advice is appreciated. I was told I bought the car as is, which I agree. Therefore they are telling me tough ****! I am in florida and the dealer is in Lousiana, so its not around the corner. I am trying to figure out exacty what my dealer diagnosis, and then there is a good chance its going on a trailer and then back to them. This situation sucks, I am a honest guy who would never sell someone something I knew was bad, but Lakeside Toyota obviously does not loose any sleep over this. If anyone has any pointers, I am all ears. I will keep posting info as I get it!
 

mountain-valleymotors

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Feb 25, 2007
Location
Harrisonburg Virginia
TDI
2013 Passat TDI
Do not trust your car to a VW dealer unless it is one that has a good reputation here on this board. Try to find a good independent shop that specializes in VW and TDI's in particular. There are some resources on this board to point you in the right direction.
 

Dr. Greenthumb

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2011
Location
Denver
TDI
05' Passat GLS 95' Merc E300D
So no 3,000 mile warranty, 7 day return on the car? We bought off a Toyota used lot and there was some very narrow window we could have returned the vehicle. How long have you had the car and how many miles have you put on it?

Get your estimate for the repairs and then talk with the dealer. Don't settle just talking to the sales person who sold you the car. Talk to their boss, and if that gets you nowhere, talk to their boss. Keep going up until you get the response you can live with. Go above the dealership if you have to.

I would start looking for any place you can leave feedback about the dealer and get ready to post your experience if they are unresponsive.
 

thundershorts

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 15, 2010
Location
west chester pa
TDI
2015 passat tdi sel premium 2015 golf s tdi gls tdi b5.5, 2002 eurovan,Peugeot 505 td,Citroen cx25 prestige
sounds like you got a good screwing unless you bought it very cheap. the trans, running at hwy speed will almost certainly be damaged, 4000 or so. 3000 for the balance shaft/water pump/timing belt, and of course the unknown items. needing 7-8 grand, if it was 4k or under, you'll be ok.
 

quint

Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2011
Location
Pensacola, FL
TDI
2005 Passat tdi
Sailor,
I have not found anyone this site recommends in my area, still looking.
Do you have someone in mind?
 

1854sailor

Resident Curmudgeon
Joined
Aug 10, 2004
Location
Westerly, RI
TDI
2015 Golf SE SportWagen, 2015 Golf SE Hatch Back.
I don't know how up to date the list is, but he's listed:

Jason King
Pensacola
850-994-7151
 

turbocharged798

Veteran Member
Joined
May 21, 2009
Location
Ellenville, NY
TDI
99.5 black ALH Jetta;09 Gasser Jetta
Honestly, OP already stated he wanted a manual trans, so this is what I would do if it was MY car:

Do a manual swap V6 trans, delete the BSM with a ALH/BEW style oil pump, and do the TB/maintenance stuff while in there. Should be under $1000 worth of parts and the car will last you a good long time with a proper transmission. :)
 

TomB

Veteran Member
Joined
May 1, 2003
Location
Cle Elum, Washington/Las Vegas, Nevada
TDI
2015 Audi TDI Prestige Sport
Honestly, OP already stated he wanted a manual trans, so this is what I would do if it was MY car:

Do a manual swap V6 trans, delete the BSM with a ALH/BEW style oil pump, and do the TB/maintenance stuff while in there. Should be under $1000 worth of parts and the car will last you a good long time with a proper transmission. :)
It really is not as simple as you make this sound or as cheap.

Please don't tease the newbies.
 

quint

Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2011
Location
Pensacola, FL
TDI
2005 Passat tdi
Update:
Picked car up today, a new thermostat was replaced which did bring the car up to the 190 they said it needed to be at, the tranny flushed and serviced, and a couple little things I wanted done.
I was told the car was not going into overdrive, but since they workedon it it was, however I did not notice any difference in RPM at 70mph, what should they be?
I feel it shifts better, though I am suspicious there is a little slippage in high gear, but not sure its all the time. The intake motor code has not come back on, so I was told.
The check engine light is still on, they dealer told me to drive it and bring it back in 1000 miles at which time they would re-scan and evaluate the situation. They water noise in the dash has definitely gotten worse since they messed with it.
Is this typical for a dealer who is clueless, or are they doing what is recommended by VW?
So, I am open for suggestions. Replace TC, and drive it til it blows? Trade it toward a new one?
Quint
 

quint

Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2011
Location
Pensacola, FL
TDI
2005 Passat tdi
Since I have had the car for a while now, I have a better feeling for the car. The big thing is, I can tell when the TC starts to slip, not till 3rd gear, and if I really baby the car, it will not slip in any gear, especially when its cold. The other thing is, once I get up to speed, or high gear, I can knock it in neutral, turn the car off fro a brief second, and then re-fire and drop into D, and the RPM will drop @ 300 and it is no longer slipping. This will last the entire time I am running. This makes me think it is something electrical. Could there be some type of relay, or solenoid that could be replaced instead of the TC?

Thanks for the help.
 

thundershorts

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 15, 2010
Location
west chester pa
TDI
2015 passat tdi sel premium 2015 golf s tdi gls tdi b5.5, 2002 eurovan,Peugeot 505 td,Citroen cx25 prestige
You haven't said if the code p0841 is present. It most likely is and continued driving the way it is, with tc clutch slipping risks total trans failure, if it already isn't too late. You haven't specified the mileage on this unit. Can we assume there is no warranty as to the transmission?
 

Dunbar

New member
Joined
Aug 25, 2012
Location
San Antonio
TDI
05 Passat GL
OP, you do need to bite the bullet and get your BSM replaced before you have big problems. I'm currently having mine replaced right now.
Good luck
 

thundershorts

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 15, 2010
Location
west chester pa
TDI
2015 passat tdi sel premium 2015 golf s tdi gls tdi b5.5, 2002 eurovan,Peugeot 505 td,Citroen cx25 prestige
or deleted...of course the trans issue at the moment needs addressing as it adds to the costs.
 

LoneLIPumpeDuse

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2004
Location
L.I. N.Y.
TDI
Passat,04,BLUE GRAPHITE PRL
A little late

Although this is too late for the OP, I'll throw it out there anyway.
An "As Is" sale does not cover any dealer for fraud.

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/consumer/autos/aut03.shtm
As Is - No Warranty

When the dealer offers a vehicle "as is," the box next to the "As Is - No Warranty" disclosure on the Buyers Guide must be checked. If the box is checked but the dealer promises to repair the vehicle or cancel the sale if you're not satisfied, make sure the promise is written on the Buyers Guide. Otherwise, you may have a hard time getting the dealer to make good on his word. Some states, including Connecticut, Kansas, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Mississippi, New Jersey, New York, Rhode Island, Vermont, West Virginia, and the District of Columbia, don't allow "as is" sales for many used vehicles.

Three states - Louisiana, New Hampshire, and Washington - require different disclosures than those on the Buyers Guide. If the dealer fails to provide proper state disclosures, the sale is not "as is." To find out what disclosures are required for "as is" sales in your state, contact your state Attorney General.
Warranty of Merchantability

The most common type of implied warranty is the warranty of merchantability: The seller promises that the product offered for sale will do what it's supposed to. That a car will run is an example of a warranty of merchantability. This promise applies to the basic functions of a car. It does not cover everything that could go wrong.
Breakdowns and other problems after the sale don't prove the seller breached the warranty of merchantability. A breach occurs only if the buyer can prove that a defect existed at the time of sale. A problem that occurs after the sale may be the result of a defect that existed at the time of sale or not. As a result, a dealer's liability is judged case by case.
 

thundershorts

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 15, 2010
Location
west chester pa
TDI
2015 passat tdi sel premium 2015 golf s tdi gls tdi b5.5, 2002 eurovan,Peugeot 505 td,Citroen cx25 prestige
Time and energy will be better spent on addressing the two big issues rather than hoping to have recourse as to an as-is transaction in another state. Its probably the trans which will fail first, but I could be wrong. Unless one plans to allocate 5-6k for repairs when they buy one of these, they most probably shouldn't buy one. Often the asking price is attractive, and seems low, but adding in the repairs needed, most people are either better off buying one already geared and transed or buying something else. Ebay is a great sewer for these cars selling to the uninformed, as we/ve seen so often. Seems like every week...." Just got a Passat tdi and...."
 

quint

Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2011
Location
Pensacola, FL
TDI
2005 Passat tdi
T-Shorts,
thanks for the feedback. I agree all effort is forward on making this car right. I did buy the car for a good price. I have already done the BSM upgrade and the other stuff while it was apart. I really like the car and the mileage. I expect to fix the TC problem in the future, I was just curious if there was something to try, as in a solenoid or relay that might go out since I can shut it off and the refire and it does not slip. If, when it goes, it just goes! It has 98K on it and no warranty, and I will check for that code.
 

thundershorts

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 15, 2010
Location
west chester pa
TDI
2015 passat tdi sel premium 2015 golf s tdi gls tdi b5.5, 2002 eurovan,Peugeot 505 td,Citroen cx25 prestige
the clutch lining in the tc wears out and the only thing to do is replace with a good rebuild or new unit. Those who replaced tc's as soon as they got the first code have been the most successful avoiding toasting the trans. Assuming you did a full trans service when you did the bsm, you may get lucky and have the tc solve the problem for now. Or continue driving it, and toast it completely.
 

quint

Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2011
Location
Pensacola, FL
TDI
2005 Passat tdi
is the TC part of, or inside the trans. or do they bolt togther? You would have to take the tranny out to fix the TC, correct?
 

thundershorts

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 15, 2010
Location
west chester pa
TDI
2015 passat tdi sel premium 2015 golf s tdi gls tdi b5.5, 2002 eurovan,Peugeot 505 td,Citroen cx25 prestige
the tc bolts to the flex plate on the engine. its not an internal trans part. Yes you do indeed have to separate the trans from the engine anywhere from 6-8 hours depending on who is doing it. Its decision time for you; feel really lucky and change only the tc or play it safe and get a whole vw rebuilt gearbox from the member here who is the vw dealer in S Florida. same work, but an outcome with a warranty.
 

thundershorts

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 15, 2010
Location
west chester pa
TDI
2015 passat tdi sel premium 2015 golf s tdi gls tdi b5.5, 2002 eurovan,Peugeot 505 td,Citroen cx25 prestige
Have you spoken to Jason King in your area? He is listed under the forum's trusted shops?
 
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