Injection pump

billmn · Jun 8, 2012

Sorry guys Im at work and didnt have time to read the entire thread.... But is there a way to verify mechanical timing on the IP? I had to replace the inboard TB cover and thought I had to pull the center bolt on the IP hub, I did not remove the hub and tried very hard to not let it slip while re-tightening the bolt, but now the car wont start... it is getting fuel to #3 for sure (I didnt check any other injectors but will be later this evening) but Im concerned that the hub might have slipped causing the IP locking pin to not line up correctly.

BobnOH · Jun 8, 2012

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=354820

FlyTDI Guy · Jun 8, 2012

BobnOH said:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=354820

Good one...

cupra20v.t · Jun 22, 2012

guys can anyone help me.
I have a golf mk4 gt tdi 110bhp non pd. its suddenly developed a misfire when going over 60mph.

I've checked with vagcom and it says code 17656- start regulation, control deviation intermittent. cleared codes, drove it again and once upto 60ish it misfired and came to a stop, hard to get started but misfired to idle and ran ok for another minute but as soon as speeds above 55mph again it happened again, when it happens it is always a pain to start, its flattened the battery now.

Anyway if i cant get it to start with the key a short tow and it will bump start easy.

I have had the injectors tested and they all came back fine.

Could the pump give up the ghost at higher speeds.

It will sit there all day on idle and will rev all the way to the limiter without a problem, it will also drive fine even with the throttle pinned but as soon as i go over 60ish it misfires and stalls on me.

are there any relays i can test or things to check before i take the pump off.

Please help, i really need the car back.

soup nazi · Jun 26, 2012

Hi chaps
Can anyone inform me of the part in the IP that is commonly refered to as the EDU?

rackaracka · Jun 27, 2012

cupra20v.t said:
guys can anyone help me.
I have a golf mk4 gt tdi 110bhp non pd. its suddenly developed a misfire when going over 60mph.

I've checked with vagcom and it says code 17656- start regulation, control deviation intermittent. cleared codes, drove it again and once upto 60ish it misfired and came to a stop, hard to get started but misfired to idle and ran ok for another minute but as soon as speeds above 55mph again it happened again, when it happens it is always a pain to start, its flattened the battery now.

Anyway if i cant get it to start with the key a short tow and it will bump start easy.

I have had the injectors tested and they all came back fine.

Could the pump give up the ghost at higher speeds.

It will sit there all day on idle and will rev all the way to the limiter without a problem, it will also drive fine even with the throttle pinned but as soon as i go over 60ish it misfires and stalls on me.

are there any relays i can test or things to check before i take the pump off.

Please help, i really need the car back.

How old is the fuel filter? Seems like fuel starvation and that you are losing prime during high demand.

DanG144 · Jun 27, 2012

I agree that it sounds as if it is fuel starvation.
Fuel filter, or in line check valve, or fuel pickup plugged. I am not sure of the details of how your fuel system is built.
Some have in line check valves in the fuel lines themselves - and these can plug. Look for in line components.
Some have check valves or tiny orifices in the fuel lines inside the fuel pickup assembly and they can plug. http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=68872

DanG144 · Jun 27, 2012

soup **** said:
Hi chaps
Can anyone inform me of the part in the IP that is commonly refered to as the EDU?

Never heard of anything like that. Did they give you a hint as to what the letters stood for?

Start of injection (timing) is controlled by a solenoid valve on the bottom of the unit. So if they were referring to the equivalvent of an electronic distributor unit...look in post #1 figure labeled as #4, near the bottom of the post.

cupra20v.t · Jun 27, 2012

Filter is 3 weeks odd old, found out yesterday that my non return valve was broke the valve was stuck open, so have replaced that but still drawing air.

New filter is being fitted today to rule that out.

cupra20v.t · Jun 27, 2012

Thanks for the link, I will drill out the check valve tonight to eliminate that

Lwax · Jul 4, 2012

Ive got a question is there a difference between the ALH Diesel pump and the AHF Diesel pump?

smokey_bearme · Aug 29, 2012

I have a really weird question I have a 1998 jetta ahu and rebuild the injection pump and the bottom of the quantity adj the part that slides into the sleve has like a ball end on it, has broke clean off I have a pump from a 2001 jetta ahl and I was wondering if i could just switch the quantity adjuster or be cheaper to machine the ahl pump to work

Losha · Aug 30, 2012

How did you broke that ball off? did you resealed IP your self or someone else did that? You can use ALH quantity adjuster but only problem is you will need to swap connector housing from your AHU pump to ALH or vise versa. If you do that makes sure you have right pins/wires reconnected to right place other wise you could burnout your new quantity adjuster or something else.

smokey_bearme · Aug 30, 2012

long story i bought the car not running, and person b4 screwed alot stuff up, have you swapped quantity adjuster before if so what wire need to be swapped

SteveColin · Aug 30, 2012

Basic questions 101!

Hi. New to the club and first question.

74KW TDI diesel engine in our 2005 Passat Wagon (which we love)

Fault: bumpy, jerky, hesitant fault, always the first trip of the day when the engine is cold. Great going downhill, then when we hit the main highway for 100 km/hr, 7 minutes later, then acceleration is bumpy and jerky. Ambient temperature in the garage about 10 degrees C. The car has been serviced, and apparently the fault is at cylinder 1. The mechanic suggested that the injectors could be swapped to see if the fault moved to another cylinder. A specilized diesel injector service business was recommended. Cost - $1000 to $2000 NZ Dollars

I have been adding injector cleaning additives since, but not sure whether they do any good. (Wynns EDT)

Any comments please would be good. I also would like to know which forum this engine gets classed under, and whether its common rail injection or not.

Many thanks
Steve

prostaff · Aug 30, 2012

This forum is awsome! I've fixed a few things from here but now have I think to be major problem. 2001 Jetta 150k or so on IP pump, 260k on car. Started sputtering at 2000 rpm and smoking gray smoke but idled fine. Turned the car off and cranked it back up and wouldn't rev up past 2000 or so rpms, just bucked and smoked. Then all at once, she rev up to 3500-4000 like something came unstuck. I ramped it a few times to 3500 rpms and seemed problem cleared up. As it came back to idle speed, it went on and died. Hasn't fired since, it's not getting fuel through the pump. I changed fuel filter and blew back to tank and all good. Anti-shutter valve is open and getting 12 volts on fuel on-off solinoid. Primed the pump and tried to start but no fuel at the discharge of IP. Does this likely mean the IP is shot. Do not have Vag-com,closest one is Memphis, 1 1/2 hour away. Sorry for the length. Oh yea, about 8k miles on timing belt and water pump. What now?

TonyJetta · Aug 31, 2012

SteveColin said:
74KW TDI diesel engine in our 2005 Passat Wagon (which we love)...

I also would like to know which forum this engine gets classed under, and whether its common rail injection or not.

I think you have a B5 era Passat. You will get specific help in this specific forum.

prostaff said:
This forum is awsome! I've fixed a few things from here but now have I think to be major problem. 2001 Jetta 150k or so on IP pump, 260k on car. Started sputtering at 2000 rpm and smoking gray smoke but idled fine. Turned the car off and cranked it back up and wouldn't rev up past 2000 or so rpms, just bucked and smoked. Then all at once, she rev up to 3500-4000 like something came unstuck. I ramped it a few times to 3500 rpms and seemed problem cleared up. As it came back to idle speed, it went on and died. Hasn't fired since, it's not getting fuel through the pump. I changed fuel filter and blew back to tank and all good. Anti-shutter valve is open and getting 12 volts on fuel on-off solinoid. Primed the pump and tried to start but no fuel at the discharge of IP. Does this likely mean the IP is shot. Do not have Vag-com,closest one is Memphis, 1 1/2 hour away. Sorry for the length. Oh yea, about 8k miles on timing belt and water pump. What now?

You definately need VCDS (was vag-com). Has the intake manifold ever been clean? What was the injection timing set at? Who did the timing belt? A reputable shop or guru? Were the stretch bolts and idle rollers replaced?

Tony

prostaff · Aug 31, 2012

The intake was cleaned 100k ago, shop set timing(they said it was in the middle of the graft). My friend and I did the last water pump and belt 8-10k ago and been running great. Bolts and rollers were replaced. When I took the on-off soliniod out the plunger stayed in the hole, had to remove it with needle nose. Put 12 volts on it and it pulled the plunger in. Before installing it back in, I put pressure on fuel tank until fuel was coming out of the on-off hole, purging the pump. Shouldn't fuel come out of the injector lines at this point while rolling over the engine, even if timing is off, it should pump fuel, right? Is this indication that the pump isn't pumping or am I overlooking something else? I feel I need to order another pump but hate to do that and end up being a sensor or bad ground or something simple. True I kneed a vag-com. What are these on e-bay from china, comes with CD and wiring harness for 9.99. Anybody ever tried one, do they work?

BobnOH · Aug 31, 2012

crack the injectors one quarter turn and crank the engine like five seconds (use rags) to get the air out.
Buy a real VCDS or borrow one

prostaff · Aug 31, 2012

Yea, done that, that's what I'm saying,(sorry, tring to keep it short) I've purged the pump and cracked lines on discharge of pump, but no fuel when rolling it over. When I put the on-off soloniod back in, I didn't put the plunger in, just the solonoid to fill the hole, to rule out this part, and still no fuel. I don't think that it's jumped time on a fairly new belt, but next, I guess I'll check TDC with the ip timing. This is my question, it still should pump fuel anyway, even if the timing IS off, right?

Losha · Aug 31, 2012

smokey_bearme said:
long story i bought the car not running, and person b4 screwed alot stuff up, have you swapped quantity adjuster before if so what wire need to be swapped

Gotcha, yes I swapped quantity adjusters before and resealed IP (did one last monday), don't remember if I had done one from ALH to AHU for sure. I know that I looked into one doing then don't remember if I did it or not. You want to used wiring diagram for wire color reference and pin locations, to my unverified knoweledge they wire colors and pin location should be same on both pumps. Only differences are 3 wires that are seperately connected on AHU pump from big connector, where on ALH they are all in one connector.

prostaff · Aug 31, 2012

Well went on and bit the bullet and ordered rebuilt pump from Hans auto for 705.00 and I'll get 300.00 back on core charge, cheapest price I could find, and comes with 2 yr. warranty for anybody else looking. We'll see if that's the problem.

TonyJetta · Aug 31, 2012

prostaff said:
Well went on and bit the bullet and ordered rebuilt pump from Hans auto for 705.00 and I'll get 300.00 back on core charge, cheapest price I could find, and comes with 2 yr. warranty for anybody else looking. We'll see if that's the problem.

That is a prothe site. Search the TDIclub and you will find out a LOT!
They are known for selling inferior Chinese knock off parts. I would cancel the order immediately! I know of several owners, and one recently, that have to buy a new pump because they bought one of his pumps that failed.

Instead, send your pump to DFIS in Portland and get a proper rebuild. It may be more $, but you will get a genuine Bosh rebuild with genuine Bosch parts!

Tony

whitedog · Aug 31, 2012

Hans...

FACEPALM...

Abacus · Sep 1, 2012

prostaff said:
Well went on and bit the bullet and ordered rebuilt pump from Hans auto for 705.00 and I'll get 300.00 back on core charge, cheapest price I could find, and comes with 2 yr. warranty for anybody else looking. We'll see if that's the problem.

You will need that old pump for a core when you get another one because the Prothe one failed. And you'll also find out the reputable builders will not accept your new Prothe pump as a core since there is nothing they can do with Chinese junk.

Buy a used one for less than the core price and save your money.

Stay away from Prothe at all costs, he sells nothing but junk and his warranty isn't worth the words it takes to write.

smokey_bearme · Sep 1, 2012

Losha said:
Gotcha, yes I swapped quantity adjusters before and resealed IP (did one last monday), don't remember if I had done one from ALH to AHU for sure. I know that I looked into one doing then don't remember if I did it or not. You want to used wiring diagram for wire color reference and pin locations, to my unverified knoweledge they wire colors and pin location should be same on both pumps. Only differences are 3 wires that are seperately connected on AHU pump from big connector, where on ALH they are all in one connector.

ok I have a bentely manual for the ahu not the alh but should be able to switch them

Drnknmnky13 · Sep 3, 2012

I'm finding IP's from reputable dealers in the $1100- $1500 range. Anyone say roughly what the rebuilds at DFIS are running?

Just trying to figure out if it would be worth the extra cost to get one already rebuilt to save time. I have heard that although the work is great, with shipping and such DFIS can take a while.

TonyJetta · Sep 3, 2012

Drnknmnky13 said:
I'm finding IP's from reputable dealers in the $1100- $1500 range. Anyone say roughly what the rebuilds at DFIS are running?

AFAIK, they only replace parts that the pump needs
and the pricing starts somewhere around $600.

Drnknmnky13 said:
Just trying to figure out if it would be worth the extra cost to get one already rebuilt to save time. I have heard that although the work is great, with shipping and such DFIS can take a while.

I have heard their lead time varies depending on shop loading.

Tony

prostaff · Sep 3, 2012

You have an option to get one rebuilt with bosch parts or aftermarket parts. Are you saying the 2 year warranty BS? All the others have 6 months. What is a "prothe" site? How can the core be different? They said I could send mine in and they would rebuild it and send it back or just get one already rebuilt, I don't understand if they are using bosch parts what the difference is. Can you explain? Also called Superior Diesel in SC. and it's 950.00 for rebuild and if the electronics is bad it's 1000.00 more and 6 month warranty, possible 1950.00 for a reputable shop....it's just not in my budget. You talk to 5 people and get 5 different answers. And the sad part, I don't even know if the pump is bad, none of the gurus have answered my post!

whitedog · Sep 3, 2012

Prothe is Peter Rothenberger (PRothe) and he sells cheap parts. Not just inexpensive parts, but cheap parts. Garbage parts. There are many, many posts here about people getting screwed over by him. Not just with bad parts but with his lack of taking care of warranty issues. In fact, there is a thread dedicated to him here, I believe. Buy what you want, but now you are warned.

Injection pump

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