Audi A4 3.0 TDI Turbo upgrade options

Fitted an EMP gauge on the car today. Hopefully make the tuning a little easier when it is being remapped.
On a 4th gear acceleration run Seems to peak about 37-38 PSI at around 4K RPM when the car is making 1.5 bar of boost.
The gauge is monitoring pressure at the turbo mounting flange where I had my EGT gauge connected.




Karl

The turbo has arrived

Had a parcel arrived today.
Gone for a 66mm 6+6 billet compressor wheel with AMG C30 49mm turbine wheel
Adam and Chris at TDI turbos have done a great job with the work and it looks like new.
They have spent a lot of time setting it up on the flow bench to hopefully get the best response from the turbo.
Here are some before and after pictures.

Before







After







Looking forward to getting it fitted and mapped. Hopefully should be somewhere around 350-360bhp and 750Nm .

Karl.

looks good Karl

Well I am not having much joy with this turbo at all. It has been on and off the car 3 times over the last few months. The problem is the turbo is using oil, at around 12-1600 RPM when driving you get plumes of blue smoke out of the back of the car. It's fine at higher revs but normal driving it's no good. The original GTB2260VK has 2 turbine oil seals, the AMG only 1 . You would have thought that as on the original car it worked fine with 1 ring why would it not on my car.
Anyway the turbo was returned and they installed a second ring however it had to be located next to the first as there was no room to install a second slot. apparently they used to do this with T3 /T4 turbos.
This was a slight improvement , but next I replaced the DPF/ cat that had been gutted and was thought to be causing the problem due to the lack of back pressure.
After replacing this it still smokes.
This was the gutted DPF that was on the car it does look a bit like a 2 stroke expansion chamber .





Heres a video of the smoke produced by the turbo now.



Anybody have any idea whats going on here. There are loads of A4 and A5 cars driving around in Europe with this turbo mod on and I am sure they aren't doing it with plumes of smoke out of the back.

Karl.

Hi Karl,

Have you simply got too much oil pressure to this turbo?
Your stock turbo might need (and get) more oil, which the upgrade doesnt need?

Oil drain issue?
I had a 2260 on a mk4 do this when idling for 5mins its would smoke blue when pulling away. Turned out to be seals.

Also, I wouldn't drive for too long if the tune hasn't been adjusted for dpf off. I had a Crafter in recently and guy had been driving it around for sometime and the regen has killed the rings and now its burning oil.

Hello Ben,
Thanks for the reply that is what the people at TDI Turbo's are working on now. They are making up some restrictor bolts for me, don't know where to go if that doesn't work.
They have built turbo's to the same spec as mine with a single ring that have run fine on 330D BMW's, possibly the Audi has higher oil pressure.
The drain is fine, the standard turbo runs just fine with no issues. the car is already remapped for a standard turbo running 310 + bhp with no DPF and has been for over a year with no issues. Put this hybrid on and it's smoking.
There are plenty of A4's and A5's in Europe using these I just wonder if they had the same issue.

Karl.

You sure the oil level is not too high ? I have a hybrid on one of my mates cars that gave me issues like that, after loads of head scratching it was a matter of tune, bad drain and a touch too much oil. The hybrid was a gtb2260 vklr... Turbo's leak oil into intake/ exhaust ehen they're off boost which might need tweaking the actuator a little...

Oil level is fine by the electronic display and also by the dipstick that I have put on. They agree pretty much exactly.
I have no issues with the original turbo, so I think the drain should be good, It's a reasonable size bore so can't see it being blocked. Although next time I have the turbo off I am going to connect a pump to it and just make sure.
As regards the tune I think that might help a little if the turbo can pick up more boost earlier then that would give it more exhaust flow.

Are you sure your CCV isnt blocked? IIRC there shuold be a centrifugal oil separator in there but I'm not sure if it also has a filter in it. Its very common problem with BMWs that the CCV filter gets blocked and that leads to oil coming out from everywhere.

Hi, do you have a step gap oil seal fitted? Might help. Also if it has two rings as standard are the new rings locating in the right place? Is it turbine or compressor that's leaking? I imagine it's turbine.

Can anybody point me in the right direction to get a c30 amg turbine wheel, I can't get them anymore.

Thanks

Haven't updated this for a while, Hopefully get this sorted shortly as just ordered a twin ring C30 AMG shaft
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/171968513323?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

The shaft on mine is a single ring item that was modified to use 2 stepped gap rings sitting next to each other. On the single ring shaft it's not possible to machine 2 seperate ring slots . The twin ring item I have bought has been made like that from the start.
To the previous poster Skillaturbo also have the single ring GTA item

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Turbine-S...493889?hash=item280a1ef941:g:mWkAAOSwA4dWHiQl

You must take me out in this soon Karl!

Hopefully when I get the turbo sorted and remapped will be back down at MRC in Banbury to see what it's putting out. Just up the road from you.

Karl.

I'm in Banbury a lot so just shout - I might as well get mine on the rollers too

This is something whe have made out of an 245HP 3.0tdi engine with a DSG7,





Modified intercooler,






FIN-turbo and Dakside DPF delete downpipe,


Jos.

nice numbers, stock turbo? intercooler seems a bit of of a could not decide which way to route piping ? Wagner makes nice units for these, log in 3rd gear with 2.1 bar midrange makes around 10 deg over ambient at end of run.

Looks like Basic fin-turbo upgrade turbo

Wagner do a nice intercooler for the B8:





Performs well in terms temp and have noticed lower pressure drop.
Be warned the current instructions are wrong!!

Cheers
Bobby

I would be happy with something around 370bhp and 750Nm.
I have my fingers crossed that the new twin ring turbine will resolve the oil use issues that seem to exist at the moment.
This is a standard GTB2260 turbine and the AMG twin ring version. Putting them on a scales the standard item weighs in at 160G and the AMG at 180g .



The wagner cooler sure looks like the one to have, Almost looks OE and seems to fit well. I am happy with the intercooler I have on the car ATM, Hopefully with the larger compressor and turbine the turbo will be as efficient or more than the original so intake temperatures won't be an issue.

Hi Karl, what compressor you will use with that amg turbine ? 6+6 blades or full 11 blades ?

It's a 6+6 62mm MFS wheel with 66mm extended tips. From what I understand the 6 +6 design picks up a bit quicker and delivers more at medium speeds but for ultimate power the 11 blade is the one to have. But If I was interested in that I would have had a 71mm compressor wheel.

you know the trim on that wheel?

When I did mine gtb hybrid with 50/69 11 blade gtx and 48mm any turbine.
The gtx wheel sucks I must lower the fuel back on same tune with 2260vk it was way better.

I go with 47/71 6+6 comp. No gtx wheels for me any more.

The inducer is 49.6mm. When trying to work out the trim on an extended tip wheel do you use the smaller exducer diameter of 62mm or the extended tip of 66mm ?
If you use 62mm the trim comes out at 64 if you use 66mm the trim is 56.
A standard 60mm wheel with 44.5mm inducer has a trim of 55.

Hopefully the compressor map would look something similar to the EFR6258.
http://www.full-race.com/store/turbos/borgwarner-efr/borgwarner-efr-6258-turbo.html
If it was on a 1.9 TDI then surge would definitely be an issue, on a 3.0 TDI from what I can work out it should be good.

yeah I will try now this 11 blade 50/66 wheel on 1.9 tdi. I just used it as the previous stock gtb2260 overspeeded, and this wheel should have a lot more margin left, but offcourse surge and increased inertia will kill below 3k power.

as you say 55 trim 66mm wheel would be good for 1.9/2.0 tdi

Bernard, what 48mm ex turbine wheel exaclty did you use in your gtb2260vk?

Hi rub its the amg turbine wheel from skilla I believe it's 48mm and his gtb gtx wheel 50/69 ett.
Spool was terrible hitting Max boost around 3800 rpm .
On same tune as mine 2260 it smokes much more. I reduce fuel a lot.

The 50/69 11 blade is good for gas cars not TDI.
The trim and design is not so efficienc at high pr. So loss power.

Now vklr hybrid BMW 46 mm turbine and 49/65 ett compressor its way better.
On same tune as 2260 with 277hp it was smoke free after install of vklr hybrid.
Before it was smoke. Now dss-r. 360 nozzles i must reduce fuel a bit buth it feels a lot faster then 2260.
Above 4000 rpm. Emp 2.8 boost 2.5 bar.

Hello Jos,

nice power from the A7 .

Can you say how the DSG is behaving with that power, changing gears ok?
Did JD also modify the software of the DSG?

TDIfreak said:

Hello Jos,

nice power from the A7 .

Can you say how the DSG is behaving with that power, changing gears ok?
Did JD also modify the software of the DSG?

Click to expand...

Yes, we where pleased with the results of the A7, car is running nice and fast!

There are no problems with the DSG7 after that JD modified the software. Changing gears is going smooth like original.

Jos.

Nice to see E&E finally makes the twin ring turbines.

When I asked them for it about 1 1/2 years ago they did not make them as I had not enough pieces to order....

However, someone birdy wispered to me that twin ring design was not made to prevent oil spillage in exhaust but the opposite.
Due to DPF cars higher backpressure the twin ring design was made to prevent that exhaust gas pressure would "blow away" the necessary oiling and cooling from ring zone....

As in principle a turbo must be fordced to an oil spillage through piston rings be it through unwanted pressure differentials, to high CCV pressure blocking free flow back of oil into oil pan, high unbalance (very noisy) can cause the rings to "open" and so on....

As stated, BMW engines are known for blocked CCV filters, but also on many VAG TDIs with higher age or mileage it is a good idea to renew the valve cover after a turbo repair or replacement.
Had it at least 20 times already that people complained about oil loss through the turbo seals when installted a new turbo or a repaired turbo which then was gone after they replaced the valve cover....