Lift pump installed, holy crap!!!!

MayorDJQ

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 4, 2001
Location
Williamstown, Mass
TDI
'10 Golf 2dr 6m, sold.
I was also thinking of the time on a road trip when my girlfiend didn't wake me up until the car was sputtering to a stop at 2am in the breakdown lane 5 miles from a rest area with Diesel. AAA had to come out to give us a few gallons of fuel. I couldn't get the car started and didn't have a funnel to try to prime the filter. The driver poured all 5 gallons into the tank and ended up having to tow us to the next rest area. Having a lift pump and being able to run it for 30 seconds probably would have solved the problem.
 

Fix_Until_Broke

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 8, 2004
Location
Menomonee Falls, Wisconsin, USA
TDI
03 Jetta, 03 TT TDI
You can just put a switch from power to the relay coil (since there is power already at the relay). Push button and manually force it to run.

Someting like this would be ideal since it already has all of that built in but I'm not sure how well it would last under the hood.
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Grainger 5Z456
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
My experience is that the pump runs until it achieved its target pressure. When I change a fuel filter it either runs longer to fill it or the amount of time moves enough fuel so the car starts. I don't pre-fill my filters and I don't have any problems.
 

Mikkijayne

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 10, 2007
Location
Devon, UK
TDI
Audi S8
I left the original gas lift pump in when I converted my Corrado. On CE2 electronics the TDI glow plugs use the same relay as the gas fuel pumps, so my lift pump primes the system when the glow plugs turn on, then it shuts down again. It works quite well, with quick starts and no bubbles in the pipework.

When I start tuning it I'll rig up a separate relay so the pump is running all the time the engine is, but until then its fine :)

Mikki x
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
Fix_Until_Broke said:
IBW - Are you referring to ALH cars or PD cars that run the lift pump until they achieve their target pressure?
ALH. And I don't know this for sure, I only know that I haven't had any problems not prefilling my filter after installing the lift pump.
 

Fix_Until_Broke

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 8, 2004
Location
Menomonee Falls, Wisconsin, USA
TDI
03 Jetta, 03 TT TDI
I've never changed my fuel filter since I've had my lift pump so I don't know how well it does/does not work. I'm just not sure what would sense the pressure in an ALH car that does not even know there's a pump in it - maybe there's something in the pump that senses pressure and shuts it off? I doubt it, but I don't know.

I do remember measuring the pressure at the injection pump when I first put it in (~7psi at idle, ~8psi deadheaded) and I thought I "forced" it to run longer than the few seconds that the IP shut off solenoid was on when you first key the ignition on.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
I have to think there's something in the pump that senses pressure. How else would it be able to maintain pressure in an environment where fuel consumption varies, requiring differint flow? Or maybe the difference between WOT fuel demand and idling fuel demand (or ignition on and the engine off) is accommodated by the 5-8 psi range.
 

Stealth TDI

Pre-Forum Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 13, 1998
Location
Newport News, VA
TDI
2017 GTI APR Stage 3 (395 hp/376 lb-ft)
My lift pump is triggered by the N109 voltage. I've noticed that it runs for about 5 seconds when the key is turned on. As a result, priming a fuel filter requires several key cycles before it's actually primed. I do not have a fuel pressure gauge. So I'm really not sure how much it takes. A gauge would remove some of the guess work.
 

DPM

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 16, 2001
Location
Newtownards, N. Ireland
TDI
2019 Rav4 AWD Hybrid, Citroen C4 BlueHDI
Don't these pumps have an internal pressure-control valve? Pretty sure there's a ball-and-spring regulator inside the pump...
 

choramix

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2005
Location
lisbon portugal
TDI
golf mk3 afn 1997
hello i plan to install a lift pump in my seat ibiza tdi 110 afn but the pump of golf a4 wont fit in my tank could you please advice to me a pump to i install in fuel line to the injection pump

thank you
 

Nitrowolf

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2005
Location
Kansas City
TDI
White 2003 Jetta TDI
Yes, these pumps have an internal valve.

That makes me wonder if the relay is actually needed, other than to prevent battery drain? Probably safe to install a relay, but is it actually *required*?
 

mydeathbynapalm

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2004
Location
Great Falls, VA (NoVA)
TDI
Golf GLS, 2002, Reflex Silver
lovemybug said:
I didn't think the pre-PD cars even had an electric fuel pump. Just the belt driven one on the engine.
They didn't...hence why people who have the extra $$$ are putting them in. Troy (TDITech) was the first to do it @ 3 years ago and wired mine in next. Made a difference in my Golf, even while only running RCII and Sprint 520s at the time... Since rewired the setup (and added other mods) with relay/fuse now inside the relay box in the engine bay. Works like a charm.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
I've had mine for a little over two years. I'm convinced it's part of the reason I stll have my OE battery and starter. The car fires instantly, hot or cold. And it absolutely helps fueling at WOT at high revs. I've got one in the A3, too.
 

MrErlo

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 25, 2006
Location
Omaha, NE
TDI
2003 Golf 4dr 5sp
lovemybug said:
Adds intank fuel pump to list of mods to think about.........
i can't speak to the power-upgrade aspects, but my 2002 A4 with 133k miles fires up first crank every time, even with B33 at 20 degrees. i usually key on for about 5 seconds to let the FM-100 heater start heating the fuel filter, and to make sure the lines are bubble free. i can usually hear the fuel surge forward for about a second, which is a good check to make sure things are functioning properly.
 

VDubsoon

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 4, 2002
Location
Atlanta, GA
My thoughts on installing the lift pump are more in line with adding a Cat 2 as a polishing filter and using either the current fuel filter or a FM100 with 30u filter as the coarse filter. I would guess that this setup without the lift pump would put more strain on my IP (possibly leading to premature failure). $200 or so seems like cheap insurance of the IP to gain filtration efficiency.

Along those lines, anyone have an idea of how long a dual filtration set-up could go between filter changes (assuming decent fuel)?
 

CarlUman

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2003
Location
SE Iowa
TDI
13 Touareg
I put in a lift pump the same time I installed my new motor. The car starts fast even in cold temps.
 

Nitrowolf

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2005
Location
Kansas City
TDI
White 2003 Jetta TDI
The lift pump should be like the #1 - 3 mod on an A4. It adds a lot to the car for city driving. I'm surprised it's not a more popular mod. Once you've driven with the lift pump, you can't go back to a TDI without one.
 

Tisey06

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2007
Location
Bay Area, Ca.
TDI
Jetta 2000 TDI, Golf 99.5 TDI
Thank so much for the drawing, and I am going to tame that horse, as long as it does not turn into a Mustang, I am ok.
 

Nitrowolf

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2005
Location
Kansas City
TDI
White 2003 Jetta TDI
I'm wondering if the relay is really all that necessary? What's the real world detriment to leaving the pump running while the ACC is on? It's not like it's in that state for a long time, and even if it were, it's not going to cause much of an issue?
 

tdispeed

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2008
Location
Brunswick, MD
TDI
2005 Audi S4, 2012 Mazda 2
The relay allows you to run the lift pump only when the main Injection Pump is "energized". If the car flips and catches on fire, the kill switch on the IP goes and the lift pump will also stop running, shutting down the whole fuel system instead of pumping more fuel into the engine bay.

I would imagine case pressure on the IP could build up since you're continually pushing fuel with an always on 12v source. You could wire it to a switch source like the radio, but you're defeating the "safety" of the IP cut-off.

Let me know if you need me to draw a picture, some people are vizual learnars ;)
 

Fix_Until_Broke

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 8, 2004
Location
Menomonee Falls, Wisconsin, USA
TDI
03 Jetta, 03 TT TDI
The relay is to handle the current draw from the lift pump. The solenoid on the IP is only a couple watts (few hundred milliamps max) whereas the lift pump is probably up to ~10 amps. You can trigger the relay from whatever source you want then since the relay only draws a few milliamps.

I recommend triggering from the injection pump fuel shutoff solenoid.
 

Nitrowolf

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2005
Location
Kansas City
TDI
White 2003 Jetta TDI
I know how it works and how to wire it up... I'm questioning the actual need for it. The pump has a recirculator, so it's not dead-heading against the IP. There will be a slight pressure build up, of course, to the tune of about 8 psi, then it will start recirculating through the pump...

I'm curious as to anyone that can speak to a continual 8 psi pressure on the pump causing any problems. I can't see that it would, but I don't know everything there is to know about the IPs.

The current draw could be a concern if you are in ACC mode for long periods of time, but I'd say for most people that's not the case.

The safety feature is the most compelling argument, though.

My concern is wiring it to the IP cut-off... it's not built for that and from my understanding is/has/could cause problems both with the in tank pump shutting off/turning on inappropriately and with the IP shutting off inappropriately.
 

oldpoopie

Vendor
Joined
May 14, 2001
Location
Portland Oregon
TDI
2001 golf gl, 2006 jetta, 1981 ALH swapped rabbit pickup, 1998 beetle
Using the fuel cutoff solenoid as a trigger for the lift pump relay is the only way to go, and will cause your IP ZERO problems. Where did you hear that using the solenoid would be a problem. NOT using it as a trigger would be a problem if you were in an accident....
 

Satiro

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2006
Location
Spain
TDI
IBIZA 1.9TDI 110hp AFN 1998
The correct number for thi part is 1J0 919 050B for Golfs Mk4... is there this part in any Skoda or Seat car? i've seen in a junk one Skoda Fabia lift pump with 1J0 919 050 number...
In etka for BMS,BNM,BNV (TDI-PDs engines) from Seat Ibiza 2006 shows this number:6Q0 919 050 B is the same part?
 
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