I put a timing belt on o6 jetta tdi at frat the top crank was install wrong 10 to 15 deg per. to top dead center. I tried to move the top cam with belt installed,then i removed the belt locked the bottom crank with lock and reinstalled the belt and tight the tension er and cranked the bottom I hardly moved it and it hit some thing. wouldn't it be easier to back the crank of to correct this Please help. in piece
intalled time belt and corrected
- Thread starter fluxcore
- Start date
Tdijarhead
Top Post Dawg
- Joined
- Nov 10, 2013
- Location
- Lawrenceville PA
- TDI
- 2003 TDI Jetta Daughters Car, 2001 TDI Beetle, Wife’s car, 2005 Golf TDI Mine, all 5 spds
Can you rewrite that and proof read before posting I'm not sure what you're talking about.
whitedog
Veteran Member
I'm with jarhead, but I'll throw this out. With the crank locked, the cam needs to be locked with the three bolts loose, then the belt installed and tensioned.
Ol'Rattler
Top Post Dawg
That's because you have it backward. What you do is turn The crank 90 degrees before TDC. What that does is puts the pistons safely at the midpoint of their stroke. You may have to turn the cam some to do this.
After that turn the cam and pin it. Next, turn the crank 90 degrees CW to TDC and pin it. You are now ready to install the belt.
When turning the engine over with the belt installed, always turn at the crank in the direction of normal engine rotation, never from the cam as you can damage the tensioner.
A T/B replacement is not a job that you can learn as you go. You want to understand the process before you even start. Find someone that understands written English to read you the following:
http://www.myturbodiesel.com/wiki/2005-2006-brm-engine-timing-belt-replacement-vw-jetta-tdi-part-1/
http://www.myturbodiesel.com/wiki/2005-2006-brm-engine-timing-belt-replacement-vw-jetta-tdi-part-2/
http://www.myturbodiesel.com/threads/2005-5-2006-vw-jetta-tdi-timing-belt-installation.2272/
After that turn the cam and pin it. Next, turn the crank 90 degrees CW to TDC and pin it. You are now ready to install the belt.
When turning the engine over with the belt installed, always turn at the crank in the direction of normal engine rotation, never from the cam as you can damage the tensioner.
A T/B replacement is not a job that you can learn as you go. You want to understand the process before you even start. Find someone that understands written English to read you the following:
http://www.myturbodiesel.com/wiki/2005-2006-brm-engine-timing-belt-replacement-vw-jetta-tdi-part-1/
http://www.myturbodiesel.com/wiki/2005-2006-brm-engine-timing-belt-replacement-vw-jetta-tdi-part-2/
http://www.myturbodiesel.com/threads/2005-5-2006-vw-jetta-tdi-timing-belt-installation.2272/
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I followed your, direction I backed the crank 1/4 of a turn no belt.i couldn't lock cam no hole in that close to radius, approximated position, the the cam had good rotation. on the crank turning cw the turn went very little befor it hit.could you PLEAE inforne me what i do now. thanks very much. jim
Ol'Rattler
Top Post Dawg
1/4 turn with no belt is only part of the answer. The 1/4 turn CCW is 1/4 turn from TDC. All references to direction are as you are standing by the right fender and looking at the end of the engine with all the belts on it.
Ok, more detail. Pin the crank with the crank tool and then remove the pin and turn the crank 90 degrees CCW. With the crank in this position, you can turn the cam anywhere you want without having pistons and valves contact.
This first step is very important. You may have to turn the cam to different positions or possibly turn the crank backwards to find a position were the crank turns without hitting anything.
With the crank in the 90 degree CCW position, turn the cam until the cam tool is an easy fit.
Last step is to turn the crank 90 degrees C/W until the crank tool is an easy fit.
At no time should you ever have to force the crank tool or the cam tool. They do not lock anything, they only provide correct position and should always be an easy fit.
Ok, more detail. Pin the crank with the crank tool and then remove the pin and turn the crank 90 degrees CCW. With the crank in this position, you can turn the cam anywhere you want without having pistons and valves contact.
This first step is very important. You may have to turn the cam to different positions or possibly turn the crank backwards to find a position were the crank turns without hitting anything.
With the crank in the 90 degree CCW position, turn the cam until the cam tool is an easy fit.
Last step is to turn the crank 90 degrees C/W until the crank tool is an easy fit.
At no time should you ever have to force the crank tool or the cam tool. They do not lock anything, they only provide correct position and should always be an easy fit.
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whitedog
Veteran Member
When turning the crank CW and it hit, did you have the cam in position shown in the links provided earlier? The window with the notches should be up and you put the pin in at the lower, left hole.
The pin that goes in the lower left quadren the hole don't align.
whitedog
Veteran Member
That's your problem. How far off is it? Can you loosen the three bolts on the cam gear and get the hole to line up by turning the cam?
there at different measurements form the center of shaft. i will thy to remove the secent casting in and drill new hole so that it aligns.
Ol'Rattler
Top Post Dawg
Then you turn the cam until they do. Remember that if you have the crank at 90 degrees before TDC as instructed, you can turn the cam anywhere you need to.
whitedog
Veteran Member
Not sure what a secent casting is supposed to be, but you need to stop and get someone that knows what they are doing to help you. Between the language problems and the fact that you don't understand the system, you are heading for a disaster. Sorry to be so blunt, but when you start talking about drilling a new hole, it has become obvious that you need more help than we can give over the internet because you are LLMF.
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i i can only 95 degree ccw before it hits going cw it only move a little befog it hits. the piston at tdc. a guy rolled the cam could the be the problem. why the cam turn & the piston hits? can the piston at tdc be at firing or exhaust the cylinder. thanks there a hole drilled in the cam case to align where it should be to make it easier.
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i got the crank turn cw little hit. then i turn ccw for abort 97 deg. Then it hit again, How may i turn the cam end Please Jim I can only turn the cam cw or the cam bolt will loosen.
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KLXD
Top Post Dawg
If it's been said before I'll repeat: If the cam is installed you can NEVER turn the crank a full rotation. There are always valves that are open which will prevent it.
You want to place the crank in a position before #1 TDC then you can freely move the cam.
Sounds like maybe the problem is that the crank is a half turn away from #1 TDC and is actually coming up to #2 TDC so when the cam is positioned properly for #1 the #2 piston is hitting.
If that is what is happening you need rotate the crank to just before it hits then turn the cam a half turn. Then turn the crank until #1 is coming up to TDC but stop before TDC. Then rotate the cam to the #1 firing position then move the #1 piston up.
Hard for me to picture this in my head but that should get everything in the right position.
You want to place the crank in a position before #1 TDC then you can freely move the cam.
Sounds like maybe the problem is that the crank is a half turn away from #1 TDC and is actually coming up to #2 TDC so when the cam is positioned properly for #1 the #2 piston is hitting.
If that is what is happening you need rotate the crank to just before it hits then turn the cam a half turn. Then turn the crank until #1 is coming up to TDC but stop before TDC. Then rotate the cam to the #1 firing position then move the #1 piston up.
Hard for me to picture this in my head but that should get everything in the right position.
Ol'Rattler
Top Post Dawg
Are you turning the cam by the 17 MM bolt in the center or are you turning by 1 of the 3 13MM bolts that hold the sprocket to the cam hub?
If you are turning by the 17MM bolt and it loosens when turning the cam ccw, your 17MM bolt is extremely loose and MUST be torqued properly OR YOU MAY HAVE SEVERE ENGINE DAMAGE ONCE THE ENGINE IS RUNNING.
Torque is 100 NM or 74 ft-lb.
When torquing the 17MM bolt you will need a holding tool to keep the cam from turning. DO NOT USE THE CAM TIMING TOOL FOR THIS.
You are missing something in the directions. With the crank 90 degrees Before Top Dead Center, all of the pistons are nowhere near the valves making valve to piston contact impossible.
Do you have the car in neutral?
Do you understand what "Top Dead Center" and "Before Top Dead Center" are?
If you are turning by the 17MM bolt and it loosens when turning the cam ccw, your 17MM bolt is extremely loose and MUST be torqued properly OR YOU MAY HAVE SEVERE ENGINE DAMAGE ONCE THE ENGINE IS RUNNING.
Torque is 100 NM or 74 ft-lb.
When torquing the 17MM bolt you will need a holding tool to keep the cam from turning. DO NOT USE THE CAM TIMING TOOL FOR THIS.
You are missing something in the directions. With the crank 90 degrees Before Top Dead Center, all of the pistons are nowhere near the valves making valve to piston contact impossible.
Do you have the car in neutral?
Do you understand what "Top Dead Center" and "Before Top Dead Center" are?
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Ol'Rattler
Top Post Dawg
Yup. Lima Lima Mike Foxtrot and with a one way express ticket to a FUBAR of spectacular proportions................
"Do not make me shoot you. Put the tools down and step away from the car."
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I turnt the cam bolt with a 18mm.socket i put blue lock tight on the bolt ,but it didn't hold it. now the bolt held gorilla glue. I came to see if I could find a more intelligent way to synchronise the engine. I'm going back to chase the vale around. thanks for your input.
whitedog
Veteran Member
Gorilla Glue?
If that bolt is properly torqued, it will hold while you turn it with the belt off. There seems to be a serious problem in your garage and I'm not sure it can be fixed.
You have been given the most intelligent way to set TDC for the crank and cam.
Ol'Rattler
Top Post Dawg
FOR SALE: 2004 VW JettaTDI. Low miles in good to VG condition. I'm selling it because I just don't have the time to do my own maintenance intelligently. May need some very minor mechanical work. $10,000 OBO...........
WD, is it possible were just being trolled?
WD, is it possible were just being trolled?
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Ol'Rattler
Top Post Dawg
Well here goes. The cam hub bolt has to be torqued (tightened) to the required torque. If you do not torque the bolt, it will work loose and the cam hub will spin on the cam destroying your engine.
Sigh............
i put b-j weld on it and put a cam alignment to stop rotation.Well here goes. The cam hub bolt has to be torqued (tightened) to the required torque. If you do not torque the bolt, it will work loose and the cam hub will spin on the cam destroying your engine.
Sigh............
this is where i i taped a valve,then backed the piston away, then backed the valve up,then the piston moved by the valves theni pin thebcam,and to rotate the piston to tdc and locked.
I followed your direction on get the past the valves them I pin the the cam and then moved the crank a little to install it. the car sounded better, but it didn't start do you have ideas on why it didn't start? Thanks Jim
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Ol'Rattler
Top Post Dawg
It will not start because you are not following directions posted here.
You were not told to J-B Weld anything.
You were not told to J-B Weld anything.
Just one very major example of important instructions you were given and did not follow.
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whitedog
Veteran Member
Ol'Rattler
Top Post Dawg
WD. Don't keep us in suspense..............
Maybe this guy http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=481379&highlight=scope can help with his "Trusty" brand oscilloscope.
Maybe this guy http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=481379&highlight=scope can help with his "Trusty" brand oscilloscope.
jokila
Vendor
WD. Don't keep us in suspense..............
Maybe this guy http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=481379&highlight=scope can help with his "Trusty" brand oscilloscope.
I think that was the gist.
No site can help him with his problems. I hope this is his own vehicle and not a mechanic working on a customer's car in a land far, far away.
Ol'Rattler
Top Post Dawg
I fully understand that. I just thought that similarities between the 2 threads is kinda hilarious.
jokila
Vendor
It's been a tad comical.
I have a female mechanic come over tomorrow morning, she said thet she worked toyota for 25 years, and she hates vw. I had the outer metal cover off the cam and the hole to pin it was at about 1 o'clock I say abou 180deg. off but the #1 injector spring was compress. go figure ????Rattler I tighten the cam bolt to about 75 lbs. o you can sleep well. Bye.WD. Don't keep us in suspense..............
Maybe this guy http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=481379&highlight=scope can help with his "Trusty" brand oscilloscope.
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Ol'Rattler
Top Post Dawg
Once again you did not follow directions. If your friend can understand written English have her read this thread. She will find that getting the crank to cam timing correct is actually very easy. My attempts at humor were not very helpful for fixing your problem. Sorry about that.
Correctly torquing the cam hub is for your benefit not mine. You will sleep much better at night if the cam hub does not slip and destroy your engine.
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