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Non VW Group Diesels This section is for discusion of Non VWGroup Diesels.

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Old July 7th, 1999, 20:17   #1
diesel_freak
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Default PSA (Peugeot-Citroen) HDI diesel

Go to www.psa.fr/en_indexDDF.html , then from the summary select the "PSA world's leader of diesel" banner for an outstanding technical description of an incredible engine. Most amazing are the noise reduction achievements at idle of 5dB. FYI, a 3dB reduction is a 50% reduction in noise level!!!

Makes me wish I had an HDI powered Citroen Xantia or Peugeot 406.
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Old July 7th, 1999, 23:23   #2
mickey
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Do Citroens still have those gawdawful "frowning" headlights? Ugliest cars this side of hell. I went to school with a kid who's dad drove a Maserati-powered Citroen. Really, truly an ugly spud. But very fast.

-mickey
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Old July 8th, 1999, 03:29   #3
christi
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Default Re: PSA (Peugeot-Citroen) HDI diesel

I disagree, the Citroen DS is one of the most beautiful cars ever made, and one of the quirkiest. I wonder whether a 2.5 turbo diesel engine from a CX would go in a DS?

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Old July 8th, 1999, 05:03   #4
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Default Re: PSA (Peugeot-Citroen) HDI diesel

Maybe your folks did not get the same models that they tried to sell here in the states. I vote with Mickey they are one ugly car! Always see them in the junk yards usually complete! Go figure.

Chow
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Old July 8th, 1999, 15:24   #5
diesel_freak
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Default Re: PSA (Peugeot-Citroen) HDI diesel

I'm with Belgian. Before you go slamming French cars for being ugly and weird looking, go their websites and take a look at what we are missing. I don't think it's fair to criticize a car you have not seen, let alone driven. I rented a Renault Megane in Spain a year ago and I was very impressed.

Back to the subject, however much we might like VW, give credit where credit is due. Peugeot has been always one of the diesel pioneers and innovators, and it looks like they hit a home run with the HDI.
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Old July 9th, 1999, 00:51   #6
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Default Re: PSA (Peugeot-Citroen) HDI diesel

OK you Zitrone haters(german for "lemon"). The europeans are right on this one. The newer "lemons" are actually pretty nice looking cars. If you don't believe me, search the web for "Citreon Xantia." You'll get MORE pictures than you ever wanted.
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Old July 9th, 1999, 00:56   #7
BRUSSELS BELGIAN
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Default Re: PSA (Peugeot-Citroen) HDI diesel

All: "Lemon" follow-up. There is a great picture of the Xantia falling flat on it's face in the European crash testing. It folded up like an accordian, or like a French military unit!
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Old July 9th, 1999, 03:50   #8
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Default Re: PSA (Peugeot-Citroen) HDI diesel


How can you call this ugly?

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Old July 9th, 1999, 04:08   #9
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Default Re: PSA (Peugeot-Citroen) HDI diesel

This is what you guys are missing out on

It's about the same size as a Passat, but has better handling, and that HDi engine. There's also a version (the Familiale) with seven seats. Just wish I had the

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Old July 9th, 1999, 05:54   #10
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Default Re: PSA (Peugeot-Citroen) HDI diesel

After see the pictures, I stand by my original comments they are butt ugly. Those cars would never sell in the States with styling like that. Even if the performance was great, ugly cars don't sell here! At least the French did one thing right, not selling the cars here.

I vote France as the 53rd state. (Just kidding!) I love French Fries and French toast and French dressing.

Chow
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Old July 9th, 1999, 11:03   #11
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Don't forget French-cut bikinis!

christi: The first picture just proves my point. Yikes! What were they thinking? I find the second car to be very pretty because I happen to like Subaru Legacy wagons. (Although this one has the back end of a Honda Civic very tatefully spliced onto the Subaru. Civics are also nice.)

-mickey

p.s. I just looked at some other pictures. There's also a very nice Chevy Lumina stuck on the front of the car! I'm just kidding you guys, of course. The new Citroens are pretty enough, but if somebody was driving down Main Street USA in one I doubt anybody would notice. They look just like everything else on the road. (Which is a high compliment, coming from an old school Citroen hater. The older models were uglier than a sackfull of *******s.)



[This message has been edited by mickey (edited July 09, 1999).]
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Old July 9th, 1999, 14:36   #12
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Default Re: PSA (Peugeot-Citroen) HDI diesel

Russell, the Citroen you consider ugly hasn't been made in twenty years or so. Rest easy, it won't be imported. Ever.

Mickey, I agree that current Citroens look very mainstream, which is why they just might suceed here. Peugeot, OTOH, has awesome styling, especially the Pininfarina designed 406 Coupe. Wow, what a looker!

Anyway, I was trying to get some conversation going on PSA's HDI diesel. I guess you all would rather talk about ugly cars of the past....
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Old July 9th, 1999, 17:09   #13
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Sorry. That engine looks real *****in!

-mickey

Oops, I'm going to digress again. I noticed a Citroen van in my Web travels. Is it available with AWD and the diesel engine? If so, I might be convinced to set aside my built-in prejudice against cars that are constructed by people who eat snails on purpose.
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Old July 10th, 1999, 09:04   #14
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Default Re: PSA (Peugeot-Citroen) HDI diesel

Christi, you just ruined my day! That hurt. That Citroen wagon is beautiful! It hurts realize that these beautiful French cars, as well as many models of German cars, are unavailable in the US.

America has more automobiles than anywhere else in the world. America has more automobiles per capita than anywhere else in the world. Americans have more money to spend on cars than anywhere else in the world. Americans are more dependent on the automobile than anywhere else in the world.

You would think that you could buy anything you want here. But even smaller countries have more variety in cars than America.

I live in a huge suburb, and I can drive past dozens of dealers in less than ten minutes, with probably over a hundred thousand vehicles on their lots. But... no variety. If you want a huge pickup truck or a huge SUV, you are in luck. If you want a tadpole shaped compact sedan with a 2 liter engine, you are in luck.

Even Volkswagen, with its rich variety of models and engines and options... what do they give us? The Jetta! Nothing wrong with the Jetta, but it is just one more compact, 2 liter sedan with a claustrophobic back seat and a sorry choice of engines. (Ostensibly, the TDI and the VR6 are available, but after reading this forum, and Vortex, for several months, those engines are apparently very hard to find and almost impossible to order.)

There was a time when you could buy a Citroen, or a Renault, or a Peugeot in the United States. I owned two Renaults. While VW is credited with "introducing" the front wheel drive hatchback in the US in 1975, the Renault 16 went on sale here in 1968. After laughing at it, I went for a ride in one, and then bought a brand new Renault 16 in 1971. I loved that car. It had a soul. Everyone at work ridiculed it, at first, but one guy went out and bought one for himself, after driving mine. Later I bought a Renault 5, and before it was broken in, three other people in my office went out and bought one.

I eventually wanted to get a Peugeot diesel, but they were discontinued.

How reliable were my Renaults? You really don't want to know, and I really don't want to talk about it. Same with dealer service. All I can say is, those rattling, noisy, underpowered Renaults were built to be driven and built to be loved.

Sometimes I think that the "economy of scale" is killing the American auto market. Because of the staggering numbers of cars sold here, and the billions of dollars in profits to be made, and because of the absolute necessity of owning a car here, that manufactures squeeze every last dollar out of each vehicle sold, and they do this by limiting our choices.

Now that this is off my chest, I think I need to go for a drive in my nice little Golf TDI.
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Old July 10th, 1999, 09:58   #15
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Default Re: PSA (Peugeot-Citroen) HDI diesel

I'm going to venture a guess here as to why the American car market is so homogenized. Don't flame me if you think what I'm about to say doesn't describe you because it's impossible to address this without using generalities.

Americans, as consumers, and as a society, are so much more conformist than the rest of the industrialized world that it scares me. So much talk about personal freedom and individuality, yet everyone wants to drive what everyone else has, whatever the fad of the moment (SUVs and pick ups) is.

One of the reasons I will buy Golfs as long as VW sells them is because you don't see everyone in them. A diesel Golf makes the rarity factor go through the roof.
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