NHTSA Update on CR HPFP failure investigation

CopaMundial said:

Agreed in a perfect world where we actually had those choice yes... but really you get my point that we might as well be discussing whether we would rather be Trolls or Centaurs in some online roleplaying game, because neither one is a real life situation.

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Come on Copa, you are safe driving around an ALH equipped car. We who own and maintain our CR+CP4.X equipped cars drive around with the certainty that the car won't last unscathed as much as an old ALH equipped car.

I can't even plan for a 1,000 mile trip, without having to work out a highly detailed HPFP FAILURE contingency plan. That is not what $30,000 should buy.

Exactly what working out is there to do?

Call nearest dealer, try to get a rental (not a loaner, because one way works better) out of them, continue your trip, then when it's fixed return and get your car on a weekend.

Do you own a CP4.X equipped car?

No, but that's a reasonable failure plan for any mechanical failure in warranty.

I have a variation on that that I can use with my ALH, involving looking at the trusted mechanics list instead of going to a dealer, and paying for the rental myself.

My 2000 Beetle TDi cost me only $17K, and gave me only cosmetic grief. My $30K Passat on the other hand is in its second re-incarnation.

There is no working out to do. I just returned from a 1k mile trip and I had no plans or anything worked out other than route and filled/checked fluids. Car ran perfectly fine the whole way with no problems at all. The chance you will have an accident and be killed or maimed is greater than having a hpfp failure. Do you plan for that outcome as well? If the car breaks I will deal with it. Until then it is a perfectly running machine that gets me around. The sky isn't falling just yet.

TDI2000Zim said:

My 2000 Beetle TDi cost me only $17K, and gave me only cosmetic grief. My $30K Passat on the other hand is in its second re-incarnation.

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Then sell it, buy something other than a VW, and kwitcher*****in.

bhtooefr said:

Then sell it, buy something other than a VW, and kwitcher*****in.

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I didn't aim to get under your skin.

But you have to realize that not owning a CR+Bosch CP4.1 equipped VW doesn't give you credibility in this thread.

You talk of credibility after all the junk posts you have made? lol! I will settle for bhtooefr's credibility over yours even without him owning one of these cars.

Lightflyer1 said:

You talk of credibility after all the junk posts you have made? lol! I will settle for bhtooefr's credibility over yours even without him owning one of these cars.

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OK, you are entitled to your opinion.

I love my car, but I won't sacrifice my firstborn for it .

TDI2000Zim said:

I didn't aim to get under your skin.

But you have to realize that not owning a CR+Bosch CP4.1 equipped VW doesn't give you credibility in this thread.

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You own a Passat, right? What HPFP failures have been recorded on these that are not due to certain misfueling? (if I may be so bold to ask as a non-CR owner )

tditom said:

You own a Passat, right? What HPFP failures have been recorded on these that are not due to certain misfueling? (if I may be so bold to ask as a non-CR owner )

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Ask VW, they got the car.

TDI2000Zim said:

Ask VW, they got the car.

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I don't follow. Do you still own a Passat CR tdi? Did you have a HPFP failure? If so, did you misfuel?

tditom said:

I don't follow. Do you still own a Passat CR tdi? Did you have a HPFP failure? If so, did you misfuel?

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I own TDi's since 2000, never misfueled in my entire life.

Asking a veteran TDi owner if he has misfueled is like asking a batchelor man if he has stopped beating his wife.

TDI2000Zim said:

Come on Copa, you are safe driving around an ALH equipped car. We who own and maintain our CR+CP4.X equipped cars drive around with the certainty that the car won't last unscathed as much as an old ALH equipped car.

I can't even plan for a 1,000 mile trip, without having to work out a highly detailed HPFP FAILURE contingency plan. That is not what $30,000 should buy.

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You're misunderstanding my meaning.
I'm not saying that the failure rate of the new cars is acceptable, and I'm not saying that VW's inaction is acceptable either.
What I'm saying is that they have, in fact, failed to act.

There is no warranty extension that we would all like. And there is no silent recall.
All I'm saying is that discussing which of those two non-existent things we would prefer to have more is a purely academic exercise.

The way I see it the NHTSA's involvement in this is strictly limited to it's affect on highway safety. They are not going to exert any regulatory pressure on VW to look after the consumers financial well being. That's not the NHTSA's role. They could care less whether consumers got ripped off.
NHTSA got in on this thing due to the potential that it could pose a traffic safety risk. But there haven't been many glaring examples of that (and thank god really).
So VW put them off the scent with the BS about misfueling, and VW tossed a bone out there with the misfueling guards (which I see as nothing but a stall tactic), and meanwhile maybe the newer generation pumps are better but they're not SAYING they're better because they want the good pumps included in the one large statistical pool with the bad ones.

So here we sit with the NHTSA not having a lot of compelling evidence of a highway safety risk. So they're not exerting pressure on that basis and And we don't have any other big guns lining up on our side to exert that sort of pressure either.

To me that means VW will continue on their merry way without ever taking meaningful action on any of this.

That is of course unless 5 nuns are driving in an 09 JSW on their way to be VIP guests at the State of the Union address when their HPFP fails as they're entering DC on the 14th Street Bridge... the ensuing mayhem causes a multi-car accident which kills a busload of senators kids AND both Giant Pandas from the Washington DC Zoo.
I don't think anyone wants to see that.

I'm not saying anyone should stop trying, and I'm not saying stop the discussion. I'm just saying I have very little confidence that it will get anywhere.
But I do have Hope(™)

TDI2000Zim said:

I own TDi's since 2000, never misfueled in my entire life.

Asking a veteran TDi owner if he has misfueled is like asking a batchelor man if he has stopped beating his wife.

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Instead of trying to be cute, how 'bout you answer the simple question prompted by your vague response to the first question:

tditom said:

You own a Passat, right? What HPFP failures have been recorded on these that are not due to certain misfueling? (if I may be so bold to ask as a non-CR owner )

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TDI2000Zim said:

Ask VW, they got the car.

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tditom said:

I don't follow. Do you still own a Passat CR tdi? Did you have a HPFP failure? If so, did you misfuel?

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Lightflyer1 said:

There is no working out to do. I just returned from a 1k mile trip and I had no plans or anything worked out other than route and filled/checked fluids. Car ran perfectly fine the whole way with no problems at all. The chance you will have an accident and be killed or maimed is greater than having a hpfp failure. Do you plan for that outcome as well? If the car breaks I will deal with it. Until then it is a perfectly running machine that gets me around. The sky isn't falling just yet.

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Exactly what I do. Fill the washer fluid, check the oil, top off the tank, and drive. If something happens along the trip, I'll deal with it then. Last major trip involved getting rear ended in Pittsburgh. No major damage, so it didn't throw the trip off, but still something I had to deal with.

Years ago, I lost fifth and then fourth gears on a trip to and from Colorado. Talked to the Subie dealer and he gave me the choice of getting it repaired in Denver at an unknown garage or driving it back to Iowa at a lower gear, higher revs, and worse mileage. I chose to drive it back and have someone I knew and "trusted" fix it. Driving home may not be an option if the hpfp fails, but I'm not going to worry about it before hand.

tditom said:

Instead of trying to be cute, how 'bout you answer the simple question prompted by your vague response to the first question:

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Not being cute, just abiding by the agreement we made.

The only thing I can say is that I have never misfueled a car in my entire life. That is a fact that no one can ever dispute. Everything else is closed.

TDI2000Zim said:

Not being cute, just abiding by the agreement we made.

The only thing I can say is that I have never misfueled a car in my entire life. That is a fact that no one can ever dispute. Everything else is closed.

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I'll repeat the question:
Do you know of any Passat HPFP failures not linked to a misfueling event?

tditom said:

I'll repeat the question:
Do you know of any Passat HPFP failures not linked to a misfueling event?

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Of course I know, of at least this one, and this one, and this one...

I guess you didn't understand what I wrote.

Then again, we in New Jersey may have some trouble being understood.

TDI2000Zim said:

Of course I know, and first hand.

I guess you didn't understand what I wrote.

Then again, we in New Jersey may have some trouble being understood.

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Do you still have a Passat tdi? If so, is it the original or a replacement vehicle?

tditom said:

I'll repeat the question:
Do you know of any Passat HPFP failures not linked to a misfueling event?

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Although he is not clearly answering your questions, TDI2000Zim has had a failure in his passat. It is documented elsewhere on this site.

I have read portions of this discussion but cannot follow the whole history.

My question: I have a 2013 JSW TDI (1300 miles now). Is this vehicle as susceptible to HPFP failure as previous TDIs, am I out of danger of a failure.

I think several revisions of the pump have been made but not sure if the problem is fixed or only improved. I only drive around 10k a year and am very concerned with an expensive failure, especially 10 or more years from now with a low mileage car. I am leaning toward dealer service after the complementary ones because of this and plan to use fuel additives. I did all maintenance on my previous cars and kept my old Volvo diesel going for 300k miles.

Thanks

Rush

All VW common rail cars are susceptible to some extent. Other makes and models have had some issues as well. The odds are low that "you" will have a failure, but if it does happen it is costly if VW doesn't pick up the bill. The failure rate has seemed to slow as the newer models have come out. It is something you should be aware of but don't let it ruin your day or occupy your thoughts to the extent that you are constantly worried about your car. Additives may help, depending.

Bosch has done at least three revisions of the hpfp since the 09 model year introduction of the CR diesels. IMHO, things seem better with the latest revision since no one is posting early mile failures on the latest model years. However, for longer term failures and failures due to contaminated fuel, it is too early to tell if they have made the hpfp bullet proof.

At the pressures being used I doubt it will ever be "bullet proof". I believe misfueling will probably always cause a failure if done. As long as it holds together when using normal diesel I will be happy.

TDI2000Zim said:

My 2000 Beetle TDi cost me only $17K, and gave me only cosmetic grief. My $30K Passat on the other hand is in its second re-incarnation.

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Then sell it and move on.

Is it possible to block a member. Getting tired of reading this guys crap.

CopaMundial said:

You're misunderstanding my meaning.
I'm not saying that the failure rate of the new cars is acceptable, and I'm not saying that VW's inaction is acceptable either.
What I'm saying is that they have, in fact, failed to act.

There is no warranty extension that we would all like. And there is no silent recall.
All I'm saying is that discussing which of those two non-existent things we would prefer to have more is a purely academic exercise.

The way I see it the NHTSA's involvement in this is strictly limited to it's affect on highway safety. They are not going to exert any regulatory pressure on VW to look after the consumers financial well being. That's not the NHTSA's role. They could care less whether consumers got ripped off.
NHTSA got in on this thing due to the potential that it could pose a traffic safety risk. But there haven't been many glaring examples of that (and thank god really).
So VW put them off the scent with the BS about misfueling, and VW tossed a bone out there with the misfueling guards (which I see as nothing but a stall tactic), and meanwhile maybe the newer generation pumps are better but they're not SAYING they're better because they want the good pumps included in the one large statistical pool with the bad ones.

So here we sit with the NHTSA not having a lot of compelling evidence of a highway safety risk. So they're not exerting pressure on that basis and And we don't have any other big guns lining up on our side to exert that sort of pressure either.

To me that means VW will continue on their merry way without ever taking meaningful action on any of this.

That is of course unless 5 nuns are driving in an 09 JSW on their way to be VIP guests at the State of the Union address when their HPFP fails as they're entering DC on the 14th Street Bridge... the ensuing mayhem causes a multi-car accident which kills a busload of senators kids AND both Giant Pandas from the Washington DC Zoo.
I don't think anyone wants to see that.

I'm not saying anyone should stop trying, and I'm not saying stop the discussion. I'm just saying I have very little confidence that it will get anywhere.
But I do have Hope(™)

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There is no manufacturing process that can make the Bosch CP4.1 as reliable as a Bosch CP1H. It's like trying to make a 4-stroke Brigg-Stratton lawnmower engine as smooth as a V6.

Up to now, pumping diesel to 20,000 psi is best done in three stage cycles than only one.

03_01_TDI said:

Then sell it and move on.

Is it possible to block a member. Getting tired of reading this guys crap.

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Yup, the ignore list is your friend . . . in your control panel->settings->edit ignore list and add the member name you want to wave goodbye to.

- Tim

We could really use a moderator to step in and clean up this thread