Gen II 3.0 speculation(s).

psd1

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Thanks! I have not been on since all my 2.0's went back but figured I would start looking at the 3.0's around this time it is slim out there which I figured. I have seen no real updates in the news where do they stand right now on a fix for the 3.0's are any approved yet or have they submitted any?
Internal email thru the claims folks indicate that VW expects the 3.0 claims agents work to decrease in mid August when the fix is approved as people will only need to bring their vehicle in once. Wishful thinking, best case scenario???


I wonder how accurate the claims portal is. Seems like a bit of a stretch buying a car you *think* you'll get a $8000 discount on........but I guess thats why they call it 'speculation.' ;)
Been pretty accurate by my findings, regardless you can still expect a minimum of just under $5K discount on any Gen II VW/Audi/Porsche purchased today.

So based on that chart I imagine we should see an approved fix for all SUV's very shortly and they drug there feet on the 3.0 cars but I was pretty sure that would happen. Typically when they have submitted supplemental material an approved fix came very shortly after.
VW is hoping for a Mid August approval for the Touaregs.
 

nayr

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Emich VW is reporting October:

We have also learned that 3.0L TDI buybacks will start on July 1, 2017 as long as they receive final approval on May 11th. The emissions modification should start closer to October of 2016.
source: http://www.emichvw.com/vw-tdi-diesel-information.html

Given the 2 other dates they gave were pretty accurate overall (they started after the 4th of july Holiday so buybacks started on 5th of July), I think October is going to be more likely than August
 

psd1

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Quote:
We have also learned that 3.0L TDI buybacks will start on July 1, 2017 as long as they receive final approval on May 11th. The emissions modification should start closer to October of 2016.

I think what's happening here is confusion between the different Sub Models, as the Touareg falls in two separate groups,

Group 2.1 includes the 2013 -2014 Touareg, the decision date for this repair is Nov 8th, 2017.

group 2.2 includes the 2015-2016 Touareg, the decision date for this repair in October 23rd.
 

843tdi

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When is the actual deadline to come up with an approved mod I have seen 3 or 4 dates know which has me confused ranging from October 2017 to May 2018
 

843tdi

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Ok went back and read the document and got my answer it could be as late as Feb or March 2018 based on possible extensions. One thing that threw me though was the explanation of a Emissions complaint mod. It says the mod mod can't reduce mpg by more them 3 mpg or 5% on torque and horse power but if they hit the emission standard and go below those marks they still get the emission compliant mod and only have to pay an additional $500 per occurrence. So they can reduce horse power and torque by 15% each and mpg by 5 mpg and there is still no buy back if it hits the EPA emissions standard and only have to pay each vehicle owner another $1500 *** who the hell would agree to that?
 

flargabarg

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Don't worry about it. As has been reported on the 2.0 the power and mileage wasn't changed for cars with SCR. The emissions tuning, transmission map, and throttle map were changed as part of the fix.
 

Fourplay

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Emich VW is reporting October:



source: http://www.emichvw.com/vw-tdi-diesel-information.html

Given the 2 other dates they gave were pretty accurate overall (they started after the 4th of july Holiday so buybacks started on 5th of July), I think October is going to be more likely than August
That info was clearly written well before July of this year so probably not the most accurate.
 

TDIforDays

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So Mr. Fourplay, what is your current speculation on buyback for 2nd Gen 3.0s now that all 2.0s will be fixed? I am intrigued.
 

Motodude

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So Mr. Fourplay, what is your current speculation on buyback for 2nd Gen 3.0s now that all 2.0s will be fixed? I am intrigued.
Obviously they will have a fix at some point if they are having a fix for almost all the 2.0's. The question is if they get this first proposed fix denied, can they get it done in a timely fashion? We shall see, the longer carb and epa take testing, the less time they will have if the first effort is denied. I have noticed the 3.0's are drying up and selling very quickly. I picked up 2 a7's and one just sold this week for $10,000 more then I paid for the same exact car w same mileage in 1 day. Pretty crazy.
 

opsx

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I still don't really understand the point of buying GenII 3.0s when it now looks almost certain that a fix will eventually be released for all of them. Is it to collect the 10k and then hopefully sell it back to someone/somewhere for more than your cost minus the 10K? Not very tempting...
 

TDIforDays

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I still don't really understand the point of buying GenII 3.0s when it now looks almost certain that a fix will eventually be released for all of them. Is it to collect the 10k and then hopefully sell it back to someone/somewhere for more than your cost minus the 10K? Not very tempting...
Exactly... Buy now for $30K, get $10K back. Then sell it to someone for $25K and profit $5K.... good luck!!!!
 

Fourplay

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So Mr. Fourplay, what is your current speculation on buyback for 2nd Gen 3.0s now that all 2.0s will be fixed? I am intrigued.
Well, given that it took them 22 months from the initial disclosure of the cheating to find a fix for the 2.0Ls, I'm sitting pretty over here, as the Gen II 3.0L cars have stricter repair requirements and a deadline, neither of which existed with the 2.0L cars.

Other than the fact that both are diesels, the engines and their respective fixes/fix approval processes are not really comparable. 2.0Ls did not have the strict repair requirements and did not have a date after which buybacks would be triggered (since they were available from Day 1).

I still don't really understand the point of buying GenII 3.0s when it now looks almost certain that a fix will eventually be released for all of them.
On what basis is it "almost certain"?

Is it to collect the 10k and then hopefully sell it back to someone/somewhere for more than your cost minus the 10K? Not very tempting...
Not for an individual buyer, no, since you'd be buying from a dealer (marked up), then attempting to sell to a private party or being forced to trade in (marked down). But if you have a dealer license, you can be pretty sure that you'll make at least $9-10k per car after Bosch and fix payments, since auction prices represent a significant discount over retail selling price. Additionally, dealers have the advantage of being able to quickly wholesale cars, whereas a private citizen might have ads placed for months before a serious buyer appears.

Making a $10k profit on a $25k-30k investment is pretty damn good, especially if the upfront cash is someone else's at a low interest rate. Show me another reliable investment that will give you a 33-40% return in 6-8 months. It just doesn't exist.

Exactly... Buy now for $30K, get $10K back. Then sell it to someone for $25K and profit $5K.... good luck!!!!
More likely scenario: Buy from an auction for $25k, sell to a private party for $30k. Or, worst case, re-sell at another auction for $25k less buyer/seller fees.

Even in your (unrealistic) scenario, 20% profit on an asset held for half a year is an incredible rate of return. Yes, a buyback would be awesome, but I will take that rate of return any time.
 
Last edited:

opsx

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Okay okay, you make some valid points Fourplay. Through the dealer license route you should come out ahead (hopefully) but from a standard buyer perspective its a tough sell. Good for you then. I guess you are only competing with other dealers on the GenII - although it seems like there are enough of those to go around.

And yes, you're right, the fix isn't "certain" but it does seems like VW is going to get it done for every group eventually...

I'm so tempted to get an A8 but I'm sure it won't work out well for me :)
 

843tdi

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@fourplay even with a dealer license there is risk to this the best up side would be collect half the fix money now and try and resell them now while the market is still hot on them. I have been watching the dealers auctions for months with my my friend who is a dealer and the prices I have seen at them are really high even on the gen 2 3.0's. Once the full fix comes out I expect the market on these to crash and it may be difficult to unload them for anywhere near the money you picked them up for at auction. All that said being a dealer yes there is money to be made and I agree if I was making 4-5 k per unit I would feel good about it but I just think that time is now not after the fix. As for higher restrictions on the 3.0l fix then the 2.0l I have seen nothing that states that other then the deadline date which has multiple ways for extensions to added though (not saying it doesn't exist I just have not seen it). According to the court documents the only requirement for a fix I have seen is the emissions hitting the original specs. Even if it requires them reducing horsepower, torque and mpg this does not begin a buyback in fact all they do is have to pay an additional $500 per one of those specs the break beyond the 5% and 3 mpg threshold.
 

TDIforDays

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Fourplay, how many cars did you sell retail or wholesale as a dealer? Any cars... not necessarily TDIs.

Everything you said is perfect world scenario but if you were in the car business for more than 2 moths, you would know that no one gives a crap about TDIs. The only reason they sell right now is because of the scandal. I am willing to bet that 99% of the people looking for a used TDI SUV right now know about the buyback and will not pay your inflated prices.

Good luck!
 

psd1

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Obviously they will have a fix at some point if they are having a fix for almost all the 2.0's. The question is if they get this first proposed fix denied, can they get it done in a timely fashion? We shall see, the longer carb and epa take testing, the less time they will have if the first effort is denied. I have noticed the 3.0's are drying up and selling very quickly. I picked up 2 a7's and one just sold this week for $10,000 more then I paid for the same exact car w same mileage in 1 day. Pretty crazy.
A fix is far from obvious.

What did you pay for your A7's? I see very few on the market these days.


I still don't really understand the point of buying GenII 3.0s when it now looks almost certain that a fix will eventually be released for all of them. Is it to collect the 10k and then hopefully sell it back to someone/somewhere for more than your cost minus the 10K? Not very tempting...
Noting is certain with a fix for the 3.0's.

You don't find it tempting to make $5K on $30K in 6 months? How about making $30K on $30K?

Exactly... Buy now for $30K, get $10K back. Then sell it to someone for $25K and profit $5K.... good luck!!!!
Dont forget about the extended warranty that will make these cars more valuable.

@fourplay even with a dealer license there is risk to this the best up side would be collect half the fix money now and try and resell them now while the market is still hot on them. I have been watching the dealers auctions for months with my my friend who is a dealer and the prices I have seen at them are really high even on the gen 2 3.0's. Once the full fix comes out I expect the market on these to crash and it may be difficult to unload them for anywhere near the money you picked them up for at auction. All that said being a dealer yes there is money to be made and I agree if I was making 4-5 k per unit I would feel good about it but I just think that time is now not after the fix. As for higher restrictions on the 3.0l fix then the 2.0l I have seen nothing that states that other then the deadline date which has multiple ways for extensions to added though (not saying it doesn't exist I just have not seen it). According to the court documents the only requirement for a fix I have seen is the emissions hitting the original specs. Even if it requires them reducing horsepower, torque and mpg this does not begin a buyback in fact all they do is have to pay an additional $500 per one of those specs the break beyond the 5% and 3 mpg threshold.
I dont think the market will crash. Remember, we are talking about 60K vehicles total that are affected, not 450K. You are also talking about a vehicle with a much higher MSRP and resale value. I bought a 2014 Exec TDI last week with 45K miles on it for $31K out the door. The trade in value was $38K. If the vehicle is repaired I will be in it for $21K, The vehicle will have a 10 year warranty. Are you suggesting that I wont be able to sell it in a couple months for $26K?
 

mannytranny

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That is only an emissions system warranty, huh?
 

bhuizer

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That is only an emissions system warranty, huh?
Read the fine print, it's a pretty substantial warranty:


"The entire exhaust aftertreatment system including the DOC, the DPF, the
SCR catalyst, the dosing injector and other DEF system components, all
sensors and actuators, and any exhaust flap;

ii. The entire fuel system, including the fuel pumps, high pressure common
rail, fuel injectors, and all sensors and actuators;

iii. The EGR system including the EGR valve, EGR bypass valve, EGR
cooler, EGR filter, all related hoses and pipes, and all sensors and
actuators;

iv. The turbocharger system including all related hoses and pipes, all sensors
and actuators;

v. The OBD System and any malfunctions detected by the OBD systems;
and

vi. The ECU and the Transmission control unit.

3.9.2 The Engine Long Block warranty must cover the engine sub-assembly that
consists of the assembled block, crankshaft, cylinder head, camshaft, and valve train."
 

psd1

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That is only an emissions system warranty, huh?
See below.

Exactly... Its not like its a whole vehicle warranty.
No, but it covers loads of the most expensive parts on these vehicles.

Read the fine print, it's a pretty substantial warranty:

"The entire exhaust aftertreatment system including the DOC, the DPF, the
SCR catalyst, the dosing injector and other DEF system components, all
sensors and actuators, and any exhaust flap;
ii. The entire fuel system, including the fuel pumps, high pressure common
rail, fuel injectors, and all sensors and actuators;
iii. The EGR system including the EGR valve, EGR bypass valve, EGR
cooler, EGR filter, all related hoses and pipes, and all sensors and
actuators;
iv. The turbocharger system including all related hoses and pipes, all sensors
and actuators;
v. The OBD System and any malfunctions detected by the OBD systems;
and
vi. The ECU and the Transmission control unit.
3.9.2 The Engine Long Block warranty must cover the engine sub-assembly that
consists of the assembled block, crankshaft, cylinder head, camshaft, and valve train."
Not even small print, just lost in the entirety of the settlement! Good post.
 

nayr

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also keep in mind they are all fully warrantied before the fix comes out; right now all 3.0L Gen2 TDI's are enjoying full/original warranty coverage until the fix is approved.. the day the fix is approved its revoked and you can go in, take the fix and walk away with a warranty that fully covers the engine/exhaust/turbo/fuel system.

If these speculators pick up a vehicle right now with any other issues, like say bad keyless doorhandles they can get all those issues repaired under warranty before they cash in and put em back on the market..
 

psd1

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also keep in mind they are all fully warrantied before the fix comes out; right now all 3.0L Gen2 TDI's are enjoying full/original warranty coverage until the fix is approved.. the day the fix is approved its revoked and you can go in, take the fix and walk away with a warranty that fully covers the engine/exhaust/turbo/fuel system.

If these speculators pick up a vehicle right now with any other issues, like say bad keyless doorhandles they can get all those issues repaired under warranty before they cash in and put em back on the market..
Exactly.
 

mrahul

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2012
also keep in mind they are all fully warrantied before the fix comes out; right now all 3.0L Gen2 TDI's are enjoying full/original warranty coverage until the fix is approved.. the day the fix is approved its revoked and you can go in, take the fix and walk away with a warranty that fully covers the engine/exhaust/turbo/fuel system.

If these speculators pick up a vehicle right now with any other issues, like say bad keyless doorhandles they can get all those issues repaired under warranty before they cash in and put em back on the market..
I have a generation 2 3.0 and it has a check engine light on since a few days. does it have warranty past the 50k miles? It has more than 50k miles and i was thinking of taking it to a local german auto repair shop.If it has warranty, I might as well take it to the dealer.
Does the warranty cover only exhaust related things in the interim or covers anything for the vehicle? Thanks in advance for the information.
 

psd1

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I have a generation 2 3.0 and it has a check engine light on since a few days. does it have warranty past the 50k miles? It has more than 50k miles and i was thinking of taking it to a local german auto repair shop.If it has warranty, I might as well take it to the dealer.
Does the warranty cover only exhaust related things in the interim or covers anything for the vehicle? Thanks in advance for the information.
The Bridge warranty covers everything that your bumper to bumper warranty covered. Get to your dealership.
 

nayr

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this is the email I got last week regarding the Bridge Warranty, you might not have got it or missed it:

According to our records, you own or lease a Volkswagen, Audi, or Porsche Generation Two Eligible Vehicle. Under the 3.0L Class Action Settlement Agreement, you may be entitled to a Class Bridge Warranty providing coverage and terms mirroring the coverage provided by your new vehicle limited warranty.

If the new vehicle limited warranty on your Generation Two Eligible Vehicle has expired, Volkswagen will extend the terms of that warranty for covered repairs performed by a Volkswagen, Audi or Porsche authorized dealer based on vehicle conditions that arose after January 31, 2017 or the expiration of your new vehicle limited warranty. The Class Bridge warranty will expire on the date on which an Emissions Compliant Repair for your vehicle is approved or disapproved by the Environmental Protection Agency and the California Air Resources Board.

Contact your authorized dealer to determine whether your vehicle is eligible for the Class Bridge Warranty. In order to qualify for coverage, you must repair your vehicle at an authorized Volkswagen, Audi, or Porsche dealership. If you have opted out of the 3.0L Class Action Settlement Agreement, you are not entitled to the Class Bridge Warranty.

For any questions or to learn more about the Class Bridge Warranty please visit www.VWCourtSettlement.com or call 1-844-98-CLAIM.
 

mrahul

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Thank you for the information. I don't think I got that mail. I will swing by the dealer to get it checked.
I submitted my paperwork for restitution money about a month ago and haven't heard anything. It's stuck at the same step since then.
 

843tdi

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A fix is far from obvious.

I dont think the market will crash. Remember, we are talking about 60K vehicles total that are affected, not 450K. You are also talking about a vehicle with a much higher MSRP and resale value. I bought a 2014 Exec TDI last week with 45K miles on it for $31K out the door. The trade in value was $38K. If the vehicle is repaired I will be in it for $21K, The vehicle will have a 10 year warranty. Are you suggesting that I wont be able to sell it in a couple months for $26K?
Correct but you have also proven my point if you read my post why would you hold this vehicle till after a fix to sell it? You can collect half the fix money now and sell the car for thousands more then you paid for it now as well. By selling it now even at the trade in value you would make 12k why would you want to hold it to only make 5k later and continue paying insurance and taxes during that time. I didn't say there wasn't money to be made especially at the price you bought that one but I was saying there was more money to be made now rather then later.
 
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