2006 Jetta TDI: Manual or Automatic MPG

Okay guys, I'm ready to pull the trigger on a new 2006 Jetta TDI. While I'm on the fence in many peoples minds of really needing a TDI with my 30 mile commute each way, it's really what I want. So I'm down to the final issue - a manual or automatic transmission.

My question is: Can you really achieve far better fuel economy in the manual vs. the automatic? I'm sure this has been talked about before, but my search didn't yeild a concrete answer. I do appologize if I'm rehashing an existing thread.

Please know I've never owned a TDI (or VW) before. I have owned multiple auto/manual tranny's though. I really like the DSG and commuting to downtown Indy with a stick can be very frustrating to drive in at times. And while I want this car for longevity and fuel savings, I don't know that I'll have the discipline to drive like many of you do to squeeze every last possible 10th of a mile out of a gallon of fuel. I'm not a total lead foot, but I do "drive".

Beyond the obvious savings on the cost of the car (and availability) what else should I be aware of? I know the new DSG transmission service is salty ($360 is what the local stealership told me) don't know about the manual fluid change.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks in advance!

There have been a couple of people that were very disappointed
with the mileage results for the DSG in city driving.
They are getting about 35 mpg. Others are doing just fine.
Search is your friend! May I suggest the terms 'dsg+mpg'.

Bill

Check this out: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=143837

Find the summaries from prior months and it will give you some useful feedback on what you can expect from each transmission.

45mpg solid on a 5 speed at 80mph (incidated) for a total of 120miles each day. I don't drive it in the city so I have no idea what it would get in the city.

Today I used VAG-Com and I got a reading of
average rpm 1730
average speed 52 mph actual
average fuel cons 3.48 lt/hour .91 g/hour

so whats that like 56 mpg -

I was flicking the air on and off and watching the fuel cons does make a difference.

The trans change can be done by self and the lowest price I have found is 22 per litre. There is some question as to how much will actually drain out. Its a 3-5 litre change and I will do that every 40k . 119 to 165. Its a good idea to change this fluid. The sintered bronze clutch system will thank you. some one will be along soon to post its a absolute waste of money

Manual vs DSG

If you like to shift go with the manual, it is alot of fun. I bought mine with the DSG/Steptronic because I don't like shifting in city traffic. Mileage will probably not be an issue between the manual and the DSG. The DSG is really a manual with two clutches and the computer doing all the shifting. However, there seems to be a difference in shifting smoothness between a DSG/Steptronic and a standard Steptronic. Good Luck!

Guys, this is all great feedback, thank you very much. I'm so indecisive....one minute I think I want the manual and the next I think about the stop and go getting out of downtown Indy each day on my way home. I love the manual on the open road! The DSG is fun to drive as well and I know I would be happy with it. It's just the added cost and maintenance that makes me rethink it.

Another considration is that I can still get the car I want locally (Indy) if I go with a manual and that makes me think of better support should I have issues with the car vs. buying an auto out of state (most likely). Any input there? One local dealer here has a very strong rep for support, but they are out of auto's until they find out what there "special edition" packages will be. However, a manual would probably be obtainable.

Has anyone had the opportunity to use the tiptronic feature of the DSG extensively to see if there is a significant increase in economy with it? I have wondered about using that feature full time in order to do just that. I'll do some more searching on the site to see what I can find.

Still thinking away here feel free to chime in with your .02!

If only a stone tablet would fall from the heavens with explicit instructions.......

Don't settle for what the dealer has if that is not what you want the most...you will be driving this car for a long time most likely, so get the one YOU want and be willing to wait a little longer for it...I'm sure it will be worth the wait in the long run of things. If it were me and I had to do a great deal of city driving, I would not hesitate to go with DSG. I have a 5sp manual and am very happy with it but I don't drive in real heavy traffic all that much. Also, I would consider other drivers in your family if there are any. As for me, my wife prefers an automatic and so for now she doesnt drive ours. But she has other choices of vehicles to drive. She hasn't felt motivated yet to really learn how to drive stick. Both stick and DSG are good choices...but go with what you really want. There's my 2 cents worth. Best wishes...

Have you driven a manual transmission TDI? I drive all around Boston, in lots of traffic, and frequently in New York City. I don't even think about driving a stick: it's that easy and natural. VW diesels are among the easiest manual transmission cars to drive. Just a thought.

Indigobluewagon is 100% correct. The TDI manual is easier than a gasser manual because you can get away with not having to downshift at low rpms.

I have a 2006 TDI w/ DSG and am COMPLETELY disappointed by its fuel economy. By tank, here is what I have gotten from delivery (8 miles on odo) to 6,200 miles: 37.9 mpg, 38.0, 35.3, 35.7, 35.7, 38.2, 40.6, 32.9, 38.7, 37.2, 34.5, 35.6, 34.7, 42.4, 33.7, 39.0.

The MFA is hopelessly optimistic - anywhere from 7 to 26% high. On the way home today, I got 39.0 mpg on 100% highway driving; MFA showed 49.0 mpg.

Don't go by my experience though - so many people on here get 50mpg and higher. I don't know what they're doing that I'm not, but if this thing's economy doesn't increase, it'll be my last TDI purchase. Who knows - maybe I just got a lemon: my 1.8T is the best that the local dealership has ever seen (they all thought it was chipped)... maybe my TDI is the worst ever made.

I want SO BADLY to love this car, but right now I don't. I love the build quality, the DSG (I just wish I had paddles), the handling, the fit and finish, the leather, and the sunroof... I just hate my TDI's economy, and that ruins the car for me. I wish I could get over it but I can't...

eagle said:

I have a 2006 TDI w/ DSG and am COMPLETELY disappointed by its fuel economy. By tank, here is what I have gotten from delivery (8 miles on odo) to 6,200 miles: 37.9 mpg, 38.0, 35.3, 35.7, 35.7, 38.2, 40.6, 32.9, 38.7, 37.2, 34.5, 35.6, 34.7, 42.4, 33.7, 39.0.

The MFA is hopelessly optimistic - anywhere from 7 to 26% high. On the way home today, I got 39.0 mpg on 100% highway driving; MFA showed 49.0 mpg.

Don't go by my experience though - so many people on here get 50mpg and higher. I don't know what they're doing that I'm not, but if this thing's economy doesn't increase, it'll be my last TDI purchase. Who knows - maybe I just got a lemon: my 1.8T is the best that the local dealership has ever seen (they all thought it was chipped)... maybe my TDI is the worst ever made.

I want SO BADLY to love this car, but right now I don't. I love the build quality, the DSG (I just wish I had paddles), the handling, the fit and finish, the leather, and the sunroof... I just hate my TDI's economy, and that ruins the car for me. I wish I could get over it but I can't...

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Well, it seems to me that you are over reacting some there my friend. The sticker for your car said 43 MPG right? you are not far from that according to your statements and your car isn't even close to being broken in yet. Look for possible causes but don't go overboard with pessimism. Have you had your e-brake checked? Mine came tight from the factory, the dealer had to adjust it. How fast have you been driving on the highways? I only get about 36 MPG around town but can get 47 easily on the highway at 60mph and my Jetta has under 3,000 miles on it so I expect even better. Your's will probably get better with more miles also. Don't forget that you are driving in the hottest time of the year which could even account for the 4 MPG less than sticker numbers. Don't try so hard to love your car...why not just enjoy it! It's the best value on the road! Atleast IMO ;-)

Txst said:

Well, it seems to me that you are over reacting some there my friend. The sticker for your car said 43 MPG right? you are not far from that according to your statements and your car isn't even close to being broken in yet.

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Sticker says 42. With every car I have owned prior to the TDI, I have seen well above EPA. Every car, every trip. Except the TDI.

Look for possible causes but don't go overboard with pessimism.

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What makes it hard is that I read of people getting 50+ mpg on their first tank. I have two friends who have TDIs (granted, both are MK4 models, one Golf and one Jetta sedan, both 5-speed) who regularly get 45-50+ mpg; one has even gotten 65 mpg on a highway trip.

Have you had your e-brake checked? Mine came tight from the factory, the dealer had to adjust it.

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Haven't done that, but I may have them check that on Monday. I plan to go talk to them and bring in my spreadsheets showing what I've been getting.

How fast have you been driving on the highways? I only get about 36 MPG around town but can get 47 easily on the highway at 60mph and my Jetta has under 3,000 miles on it so I expect even better.

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On today's trip where I got 39 mpg, it was a 168 mile trip with probably 15 miles or so that weren't full highway. Speed limit was 55-70, and that's how fast I went... well, OK, 58-72 or so. Most of the time it was in the 60-65 mph range.

Your's will probably get better with more miles also. Don't forget that you are driving in the hottest time of the year which could even account for the 4 MPG less than sticker numbers.

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Yeah, here's to hoping it gets better over time. I'll be monitoring it of course.

Don't try so hard to love your car...why not just enjoy it! It's the best value on the road! Atleast IMO ;-)

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I think I expect a lot of my car. Maybe I need to just forget what the sticker says (35/42) and be happy with anything above 30. :/

Remember you're driving a fairly complex, 3,200 lb sedan with an automatic and climate control, and are getting 35-40 MPG. What's not to like about that? Admittedly the MKIVs get better mileage, but they pollute more and are less roomy and refined. I'm willing to bet that once you have 20K or so on the car you'll be consistently getting close to 40, more on trips. What did you get in your 1.8T?

Only 6000 miles on the clock? Most drivers of these cars notice a dip in their economy at around 5000 miles. It climbs again after about 10,000. The engine isn't really broken in until 40,000+ miles. Make sure you are following the 'break in' procedure. With a new engine don't go for economy, you need to push it a little harder, but not full throttle all the time!

Don't forget that some of these guys getting good MPG from this car may have driven countless TDI's before. They may have figured out exactly what these engines like for MPG.

I say get a manual. 99% of cars here in the UK are manual, nobody ever complains about it. You'll get the best MPG possible, and there's less to go wrong. Get cruise control to help avoid 'over-compensating' throttle on small hills etc... This will raise your MPG.

Remember, break your engine in first, worry about MPG in another 10,000 miles or so...

My only suggestion - if you want a DSG - you better buy it. They are VERY scarce - the number of DSG's available in Indy is likely ZERO. You may have to travel to find one (which I would not be concerned about). Was at Tom Wood VW (Indy) yesterday. In speaking with Scott - they have no Jetta TDI DSG's available for remainder of the year (unless they can trade with other dealers, which is unlikely). They still had a couple of manuals (on lot and coming) - but they are also moving as fast as they come in. My wife drove a manual and a DSG - we opted for a DSG - put money down on a PKII Spice Red / Anthracite DSG in May and it arrived at end of July.

If you sit back and evaluate DSG / Manual for long - it will be a manual.

IndigoBlueWagon said:

Remember you're driving a fairly complex, 3,200 lb sedan with an automatic and climate control, and are getting 35-40 MPG. What's not to like about that?

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Yeah, I'm needing to resign myself to "anything better than the 1.8T is good," but what I was really hoping for was the 42 mpg EPA rating.

Admittedly the MKIVs get better mileage, but they pollute more and are less roomy and refined.

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That's one of the things we really like about the MKV - it is big enough (we replaced a 1999 Ford Taurus with the TDI) and it has rear-seat vents for our pugs.

I'm willing to bet that once you have 20K or so on the car you'll be consistently getting close to 40, more on trips. What did you get in your 1.8T?

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Time will tell of course. I've only started keeping detailed data on both cars, but I do have mpg for the 1.8T since day 1 (and all previous cars, for that matter). First several tanks were: 26.1, 24.2, 24.2, 25.0, 25.2, 32.2, 30.7, 31.3 (2 months old here, same timeframe as the TDI, but with fewer miles), 27.0, 29.6, 21.5, 27.5, 26.4, 28.2, 26.5, 25.5, 29.0, 27.3, 28.6, 24.9, .... then at 15 months (probably 20k miles or so), 33.8, 29.2, 27.7, 29.2, 30.4, 33.6, 30.6, 28.0, 30.5, 32.6, 30.2, 26.4, 40.2, 23.9, (those 3 tanks must be messed up), 32.6, 28.5....

More recently: 31.6, 32.2, 34.4, 31.2, 31.6, 39.2, 25.4 (those 2 tanks are probably messed up), 33.4, 30.3, 30.0.

Note how I almost always hit the EPA highway rating of 31 mpg, and I frequently best it even for my normal daily driving. My normal daily drive includes a "speed of traffic," whatever that is (usually 65-80 mph), jaunt on the highway (my commute is 95% highway), and, frequently, hard acceleration to that speed.

You're probably right - in a year or so, when the TDI has 20k on it, it'll probably be consistently in the low 40s. When that happens, I'll be happy with it.

dsimpson313 said:

I really like the DSG and commuting to downtown Indy with a stick can be very frustrating to drive in at times. Thanks in advance!

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There is your answer. These cars get such better mileage than everything else, i say get what you are most comfortable with. Personally i hate a stick in heavy traffic.

The DSG is a little funky though. Its not like a normal slush box, so I would drive one.

I am still not convinced that the mileage hit is totally all the DSG due to the fact that on the highway its really no different than a 5 speed. IMO its the driving style of lugging around a 5 speed vs driving a DSG in auto mode somewhat aggressive, but who knows. You would really have to do a side by side test to know for sure.

My last trip I got 40mpg with the AC on and 80 mph. In the city I get 30mpg with the AC on, but I drive pretty hard, and my engine only has 7k miles on it.

No doubt I am getting over 42mpg without the AC, so by the time I break it in fully, get some LRR tires on it, swap to 506.1 oil I should hit 50mpg at 70mph and thats good enough for me.

If I really wanted a super high mpg car, I would build a super lightweight kit car and drop a tdi engine in it and get around 100 mpg with a little custom work. Probably cost more than a jetta though and definately not as safe.

I guess even cheaper yet is to just buy a Ford F250 diesel truck and run it off WVO then who cares about mileage.

tkbalt-

What side of Indy?

Yes they are scare in Indy, but not impossible to get (yet). DG's still has two coming - but not in the color I want (well, black on black is sweet - but so hard to keep looking that way). I have found that some dealers in smaller metro areas (Dayton, Louisville, Akron, Lexington, etc.) still have unsold auto's coming, so that is most likely what I'll have to do to get an auto in the color I want if I go auto. Also, the dealers will still be getting their allotment of "Special Editions" about half of which will be DSG. Waiting lists are piling up for those though.

I think I'm going to go and drive a 5 speed again tomorrow (given it is still there). I'm sort of leaning that way.

Long term it appears that the best mpg's are to be had with the 5 speed's and not the auto's. I'm findng myself more and more intrigued by trying to get the best fuel economy possible. It's sort of a game isn't it?

How do those mpg improving LRR tires fair in the snow?

Ignorance shining thru here - what is the "MFA" that eagle refers to? On board fuel consumption computer or something?

Thanks guys! This site is phenominal.

Yes, the MFA is the trip computer. Some people call it an MFI or MFD. I don't know which is the "real" designation. It calculates instantaneous mpg and has 2 trip computers that each calculate average mph, average mpg, time driven, and miles driven.

Thanks for the clarification. I'm looking at a Pkg 1 and I'm not certain that comes without the Pkg 2.

So your actual mpg is 10mpg lower than what your MFA is telling you? Have you had the dealer look into that?

I haven't had them address that issue specifically, but they say the pencil-and-paper results aren't anything to be concerned with. Once I have more data (I only have 5-10 tanks of MFA-vs-real info), I'll confront them with it.

How is that not "anything to be concerned with" if there is a 10 mpg difference? Seems odd.

Keep in mind that with a 5 speed you can swap out your fifth gear with a .681 or .65 and get an 11 to 13% drop in revs. With the .681 I'm turning 2500 at an indicated 80. That will help mileage, and the gears plus the install are still cheaper than the DSG.

Indigo-

To answer your question from earlier, yes I've driven a 5spd TDI (Friday p.m. actually). I thought it was easier to drive than I assumed it would be (much easier than my 1990 F250 4x4!) and I'm going to give it another shot tomorrow if she's still there.

Looks like you're the man to ask: How much for for a gear swap (parts) and estimated cost??? And how much increase in economy are we talking?

My biggest fear on the DSG is the cost - especially if she blows after warranty. You have that with any car, but having been a Honda guy I've not had it!

Leaning towards manual tranny - I've calculated only two stop signs and 10 lights by changing my route and it keeps me on a State Road/Interstate to within just a few blocks of my office. You guys are turning me into a dork - my wife just commented that I'm bordering on obsessive. That kind of makes me smile.

dsimpson313 said:

tkbalt-

What side of Indy?

Yes they are scare in Indy, but not impossible to get (yet).

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Live on the north side - I was a DG fan (purchased an 05 Golf TDI AT there) - but the head guy (Ingar) moved to Tom Wood and I followed. Had better luck with the DG service department, and my first experience with Tom Wood's service was not good (overfilled at 5K oil change). My hope is that Ingar can straighten them out.

DSG / Manual - it's a preference thing. Certainly give up some MPG's - and have a more expensive trans to buy AND maintain - but if you are an AT type (and we are) - it is a fun to drive vehicle that still gets GREAT mpg.

The gearsets with gasket (which you might not need on a new car) are $325. My local guy does the install for about $200 including any replacement fluid, but many folks have done them at GTGs. You need a larger Torx bit for the '06s, but I forget which size. One was updated at a recent GTG in New Hampshire. I don't think there are cruise control problems with the '06 cars, although there were with '04s--the problem seems unique to that year's ECU. Perhaps others will coment if I've got that wrong.

My car is a moving target because I keep making changes, but I'm able to get right around 50 MPG cruising at 80 with A/C (in an '02). Most people say they've seen about a 3 MPG increase. And the .68 has no penalty in terms of driveability; I was driving around today at 40-45 MPH in fifth, right around 1200 RPM. The car just goes along. There's a long thread here on the upgrade: give it a look.

Anyone done a gear upgrade in a A5 that can report on their results?

Indigo-

Thanks for the info, that sounds pretty cool in terms of tweaking the mpg. That's a pretty long payback period, but that's not really why you do such things is it. Does that void your warranty? I'm guessing you would want to wait until the warranty is up. I'll just have to mull this over for another day and make a decision tomorrow - hope I can spin that 5M again.....

tkbalt-

Why kind of mpg are you seeing in the A5 DSG?

I like the guys at DG and I work downtown so it's close. I commute south though (Morgan County) and have strongly considered D-R in Greenwood. I've been working with a sales lady there that is pretty responsive and helpful - she's patient and to work with me you have to be cause I can't make a freaking decision! They give you a free loner car for any length of time required when yours is in for service or repair if you buy from them - and a free hand car wash on Saturday's is nice too, especially in the winter. Any knowledge of working with them or know anyone that has?

I have a 06 Jetta TDI Pack 2 DSG Black on Black ordered with Dreyer Reinbold and they have been very good to work with and it appears the service department is better, guess we will find out soon. The manager there is excellent.

I am a bit like Eagle on this one, with an '06 TDI Jetta that gets about 38 (+/- 1.2) on each tank. Of course, I only have 4600 miles on it. I am trying to drive the break-in schedule, but my wife drives it down to San Antonio 2-3x per month (270 miles) and mostly on cruise.
But unlike Eagle, I am still ECSTATIC with my purchase. And I paid sticker! $24K for a 1 package with leatherette/leather, satellite radio, monster mats, and mud flaps--and it gets 38 MPG?! It's such a smooooth ride for the price, comparable to an Acura I used to own that got 29/33 in comfort, although nowhere near the acceleration, but who cares?
I don't get my 43 yet, but who knows, if I get there, I'll be like a pig in slop. Those MkIV guys that get 50+ are lucky, but they ain't driving the new shape, with all the creature comforts of the '06 model. If I want 50+, I can always buy a bike!

Still happy with my TDI,
WHIFF