Photos of PD Cam

Well, I finally had some time this weekend to take a peek under the valve cover. Here are some photos I snapped. The car is a 2004 Golf PD with 137,000 miles. I bought it new. Oils that have been run are as follows: Castrol 505.01, Motul 505.01, Elf 505.01, Total Quartz Ineo MC3 5w30 505.01, and VW Long Life III 507.

I have never removed the valve cover before, and don't really know what I'm looking at. Other than, you know, engine parts .

Anyone care to comment on what they see?

Oh, the car runs great. This was just out of simple curiosity.

I don't run a PD, but I believe PDs require 507, not 505.01...

505.01 is the correct oil for PD's
507 oils are the required oil for the new CRD's.

I own a 2004 Jetta PD, just over 100,000 miles. I've used various 505.01 oils in it. Your cam lobes and rocker rollers look good. I've never taken my valve cover off, when I do I hope mine looks as good as yours!

zardnarf said:

I own a 2004 Jetta PD, just over 100,000 miles. I've used various 505.01 oils in it. Your cam lobes and rocker rollers look good. I've never taken my valve cover off, when I do I hope mine looks as good as yours!

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When did you get your timing belt changed? That would have been a good time to take a look under the cover.

In the second photo, you have just a hint of the porus(rough) wear on the lobe..Not bad..

I might consider shorted OCI..Or I am keeping my ZN levels up above 1200ppm..

Here's a detail of the spot you refer to. This is the one spot that I was particularly curious about. I gave it the "fingernail test" and it felt very smooth. Not very scientific I know, but at least it didn't feel rough.

whitedog said:

When did you get your timing belt changed? That would have been a good time to take a look under the cover.

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Hey whitedog, I had Marcell do it for me at the Fix-um Haus. I was busy that day so I couldn't stick around to see it.

That particular lobe is troubling. The wear has worn through the surface hardening of that camlobe, and will eventually cause a failure.

As a test case, your car would be interesting. To track the wear progression from this point forward given proper maintenance would be valuable for a lot of other people with PD cars.

EDIT: What have your oil change intervals been like? It sounds as though you have used the correct oil all the way through.

Dub,

Have you done any UOAs?

Dub, thats what I was talking about and have seen on other BRM's..I have seen it on all BRM's that i have looked at..Mine has one lobe with about 1/4 of that much on it at 92000m...

I can feel the scuffing with a pick..

I think you might be able to get to 200-250K miles if you do something about your lube soon..

Hope mine looks that good at 140K..

FWIW-I abandoned the 505.01 with 506.01 oil now I have added ZN as well..

Well, I guess it sounds like this is the type of wear that's going around on the PD cams. I'm glad I decided to be curious enough to take a look. Just goes to show how a car that "runs great" can have something going on behind the scenes.

To answer the questions:

1. Oil change intervals have been right on time according to the manual. All done by me.

2. I have NOT done any UOA's.

So, that leads to some questions of my own...

Should I switch to Mobil1 TDT oil? Or, is there something else that would be better? Don't want to start a huge oil discussion here, just looking for some general advice.

What is a good Zn additive? And where can I get it?

What company would be good to use for UOS's? I would like to start getting them done regularly. I can post the results here as I get them done. I can also take updated photos of the cam at each OCI.

dubvulture said:

Well, I guess it sounds like this is the type of wear that's going around on the PD cams. I'm glad I decided to be curious

1. Oil change intervals have been right on time according to the manual. All done by me.

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How many miles between changes? Highway or city driving?

10,000 miles between changes. 90% highway, 10% city.

Thanks. Thats very inforamtive for a lot of people.


At the very least, it shows that in your case, the maintenance interval with the proper oil is giving you 137k miles before the onset of excess wear.

If you are willing, please update this thread with more pictures as you accumulate more miles.


Personally, I think (like many) that this kind of wear is unacceptable, and a function of poor design rather than poor maintenance. ALH engines go much further than this without excess cam wear, given similar maintenance with approved oil and OCI's.

Unfortunately I can't see any of the lifters. It would've been useful to see how the lifter surfaces look like. Otherwise, it looks pretty good, if maybe a bit on the dirty side (i know, oil is black...)

Dub, its good that you looked, for you can take precautions now and possibly save the cam for 300000m?

I use the zn from kirban..

I believe in the TDT as well. I like to see ZN levels at 1200ppm at 10000m..

I like Schaeffers 9000 as it is stacked with Moly, which does wonders for metal..

So, I decided to drain the Total Quartz Ineo MC3 5w30 505.01 and replace with Mobil 1 TDT. I found the TDT at Advance Auto for $6.99/quart. I pulled a sample and will be sending it to Blackstone Labs for analysis. I am at 137,000 miles now, when I reach 140,000 I will do another oil change, as well as get another UOA.

After spending WAY too many hours reading through the vast amount of threads that pertain to this issue, I decided to go with Mobil 1 TDT. I've decided to hold off on adding any zddp for now. After getting a few UOA's I will see if I think it's necessary.

Looking through the catalogued UOA's of TDT, I was quite impressed.

And just to get it out of the way: I know full well that Mobil 1 TDT is NOT VW 505.01 certified. My car is out of warranty and I take full responsibilty for what I do to it. I am not recommending to anyone with a car still under warranty to use a non approved oil.

Thanks for everyone's input so far.

dubvulture: the PD's are really well known for cam failures due to the wrong oil being used.

They're so bad in fact that it's one of the first thing people check before they buy a PD, and it's a deal breaker.

I would strongly discourage this decision, you will end up spending a lot more money in the end.

Dub..eye the zn levels in your OA..you want ~1200ppm at 10000m..

TDT is good...this is what will save your cam..

dubvulture said:

snip..

After spending WAY too many hours reading through the vast amount of threads that pertain to this issue, I decided to go with Mobil 1 TDT. I've decided to hold off on adding any zddp for now. After getting a few UOA's I will see if I think it's necessary.

Looking through the catalogued UOA's of TDT, I was quite impressed.

And just to get it out of the way: I know full well that Mobil 1 TDT is NOT VW 505.01 certified. My car is out of warranty and I take full responsibilty for what I do to it. I am not recommending to anyone with a car still under warranty to use a non approved oil.

Thanks for everyone's input so far.

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This is the proper way of agreeing to disagree. Newbies please take note. If after doing your research and looking through all available info you decide to go with non-VAG oils, this is how your choice should be explained and defended.

Dub, I think you'll do fine on the TDT. If a visual inspection of the cam and lifters after 1xxK miles looks good, you probably got a good set of lifters and a well-hardened cam and also used good diesel-rated synth oil. VAG oils are not necessarily the "creme de la creme".

Please DO post in the future if you have cam/lifter issues and also remind folks what oils you've used. Happy motoring.

I wish I knew about this issue sooner

I think it's too late for me...
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=310518
I have only gone 5k between oil changes, which was done by the dealer!
I would say 95% highway 5% city miles, I have quite a long commute to work & bought a diesel thinking it would last me as long as I maintained it...

tme2011 said:

thinking it would last me as long as I maintained it...

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Key word being "I" and not dealer...

This is my first new car & my first diesel...I figured the dealer would know the most about it. I don't know any diesel mechanics, guess now is the time to find one. I used to change my own oil on my gas engine, but I don't know much about diesel engines and thought i'd error on the safe side and let the "Experts" take care of it. What a hard and expensive lesson

I would put a magnetic drain plug in. It will get covered in metalic dust if the wear is significant. I just did one that had 160,000 miles. It had more than just dust on the magnetic drain plug.

http://www.stompboxrocks.com/jr/CamLifters1.jpg
http://www.stompboxrocks.com/jr/CamLifters2.jpg

Good Luck!

FYI: PD cam failure - Data collection thread
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=237678

Sorry about your #2 exhaust lobe wear. I do like the view / angle you chose to take the photos. If you remove the oil it will help the camera catch details. Your oil on the lobes did not hurt much, but sometimes you can not tell what is going on with oil on the lobes.

Winter wear seems to be lower. Keep close tabs on the lobe as the weather warms up. Keep the oil changed. Keep us posted.

eddif