Gen3 second stage

Tsimpson69 · Apr 24, 2017

I have a '15 golf and have had the first mod done and generally pleased with the update. Of course I'm crazy about this car and will literally drive it until the wheels fall off. So what are everyone's thoughts when the second mod and equipment update will be released? I know there have been hints not until '18 but nothing solid. Just looking for gut feelings. My thoughts are we will have an idea by fall.

ZippyNH · Apr 24, 2017

The info seems to indicate it is just a replacement of the current equipment to ensure it still operates at peak efficiency to main the current agreement of pollution levels.
One or two extra sensors might be added, depending on what you read, including a sensor to monitor that DEF is actually DEF, and not just water, and an extra NOX sensors.
Apparently the current equipment meets the agreement, but does not have the "head room" too still meet the requirements of the EPA with wear, and the equipment is supposed to last to 160,000 miles, hense the midlife parts change.
That's my understanding from reading it.

740GLE · Apr 25, 2017

Found this gem, looks like it depends on how many miles are on your ride. Either way the warranty will buy to a new system in the 167K miles you own the car.

https://www.vwdiesellookup.com/pdf/VWCourtSettlement_Emissions_Disclosure_Gen3_Final.pdf

"The second part of the emissions modification will involve outfitting your
car with new emission control parts to ensure system reliability and
durability over time. If your car exceeds 40,000 miles (for automatic
transmissions) or 70,000 miles (for manual transmissions) we will install
updated emissions control system hardware - specifically a new Diesel
Particulate Filter, Diesel Oxidation Catalyst, and Selective Catalytic
Reduction Converter - that is needed to maintain emissions
performance for the full useful life (150,000 miles) of your vehicle. As
part of the Phase 2 modification, we will also install a second NOx
sensor and corresponding software to improve the performance of the
OBD system. The Phase 2 updates are expected to have no further
impact on overall vehicle reliability, durability, fuel economy, engine
sound, performance, or drivability."

2015vwgolfdiesel · Apr 25, 2017

740GLE said:
Found this gem, looks like it depends on how many miles are on your ride. Either way the warranty will buy to a new system in the 167K miles you own the car.
https://www.vwdiesellookup.com/pdf/VWCourtSettlement_Emissions_Disclosure_Gen3_Final.pdf
"The second part of the emissions modification will involve outfitting your
car with new emission control parts to ensure system reliability and
durability over time. If your car exceeds 40,000 miles (for automatic
transmissions) or 70,000 miles (for manual transmissions) we will install
updated emissions control system hardware - specifically a new Diesel
Particulate Filter, Diesel Oxidation Catalyst, and Selective Catalytic
Reduction Converter - that is needed to maintain emissions
performance for the full useful life (150,000 miles) of your vehicle. As
part of the Phase 2 modification, we will also install a second NOx
sensor and corresponding software to improve the performance of the
OBD system. The Phase 2 updates are expected to have no further
impact on overall vehicle reliability, durability, fuel economy, engine
sound, performance, or drivability."

On the 2015 Golf, anyone know if it will take any addition *space* in the hatch?

There was "talk" of this on some units, many months ago.

GoFaster · Apr 25, 2017

The DEF tank (that you already have) is the thing that takes up space, and it's not being changed. The other stuff is all attached to the engine.

2015vwgolfdiesel · Apr 25, 2017

GoFaster said:
The DEF tank (that you already have) is the thing that takes up space, and it's not being changed. The other stuff is all attached to the engine.

Thank you kindly, GoFaster,

This was the last issue to elect the fix.

Just sitting on my position for a little while longer. Knowing I can't change after I start 1/2 of the fix.

There are so many financial reasons to do the fix, rather than a *great* BB number.

I love the car. I looked at 4 other new cars, at my price point, nothing measure up to mine.

whitedog · Apr 25, 2017

I read the original post and to ME it sounds like they want to know WHEN, not WHAT the second round will be.

GoFaster · Apr 25, 2017

Hardware fix availability was not expected until about a year after the software fix, which would put it early to mid 2018.

Tsimpson69 · Apr 25, 2017

Just to clarify, I know what is going to be done (lots of new goodies) and I know officially it's not been announced. Just was curious to what the arm chair squad had as a gut feeling as to the time line. After all VW started the software fix sooner than originally expected.

GoFaster · Apr 25, 2017

Software doesn't require designing, commissioning, and building tooling, and arranging for parts to be manufactured, inventoried, and shipped. And the Gen 3 phase 2 part of the fix isn't even approved yet.

ZippyNH · Apr 25, 2017

GoFaster said:
Software doesn't require designing, commissioning, and building tooling, and arranging for parts to be manufactured, inventoried, and shipped. And the Gen 3 phase 2 part of the fix isn't even approved yet.

Wrong...
The car meets the current epa sticker for the agreement.
The EPA faulted vw for lacking a sensor to determine if the car actually had def, and had questions about the longevity of the NOX sensors.
Likewise there was fear that the current parts, while can meet the EPA rules when newish, would not last THE REQUIRED LIFE...
if a exact factory fart was installed, it would meet the EPA goals . A midlife change ensures it will be functional till the end of 160,000 miles.
Now...think supply chain...a part that was expected too last most of the life of the car must be changed midlife, and a couple sensors added....
It takes planning and a fairly large production run....

Why the pessimistic view? Read and learn this stuff has all happened before in the heavy truck industry. It's not New...the fines, the equipment, or the changes.

GoFaster · Apr 25, 2017

What am I wrong about?

The second part of the fix is more than just replacement of existing parts like-for-like. There is some of that, but there are additional sensors to provide additional fault detection for the diagnostic system. Those sensors not only have to be designed and built, but whatever they attach to and connect with needs to be designed and built. That takes time.

2015vwgolfdiesel · Apr 25, 2017

Tsimpson69 said:
Just to clarify, I know what is going to be done (lots of new goodies)

and I know officially it's not been announced. Just was curious to what the arm chair squad had as a gut feeling as to the time line.

After all VW started the software fix sooner than originally expected.

ooooo k

you know what

740GLE · Apr 26, 2017

Wonder what VW will do after you get phase 2 fix? Will they require any testing per EPA. Hope for a down pipe after the fix.

tadawson · Apr 26, 2017

Exactly nothing. The process is accepted and documented, and won't change . . .

GoFaster · Apr 26, 2017

Don't forget that the super nice 4 year 48,000 mi warranty gets the "reset" button pressed when you get that stage 2 fix done.

I strongly advise leaving these cars stock in terms of anything involving the engine and the emission control systems as long as they have warranty coverage on them.

A fair strategy is to get the stage 1 fix done now if your car is past powertrain/emissions warranty or get it done around the time that the powertrain/emissions warranty ends if you can, and then delay getting the stage 2 fix done as long as you can (sometime in late 2018 is probably the latest you can push it) so that your warranty coverage extends as long as possible. What happens after that warranty is up ... that's up to you.

r11 · Apr 26, 2017

Yep, you want that existing DPF to load up nice and full of ash,and NOx cat get used up, before VW gives you a new one

Miss_Athanatos · Apr 26, 2017

r11 said:
Yep, you want that existing DPF to load up nice and full of ash,and NOx cat get used up, before VW gives you a new one

Haha...too true!

Save

Locoelectrician · Apr 27, 2017

GoFaster said:
Don't forget that the super nice 4 year 48,000 mi warranty gets the "reset" button pressed when you get that stage 2 fix done.

Could you elaborate on this for me please? Nowhere in my paperwork do i see 4/48 on anything. I have 3/36 B2B and 6/60 powertrain. Thanks. If it's common knowledge and i missed it, just point me in the right direction.

EDIT- Nevermind, this is for people who kept their car and had it fixed i assume. Delete at will...

Gen3 second stage

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