How many miles are you seeing between regenerations?

meerschm · Oct 14, 2015

Diesl said:
I haven't looked at mass air flow. I tried to compute exhaust flow from rpm and boost pressure, correcting for exhaust gas temperature, but that product does not correlate well with the dpf differential pressure. Boost alone (or rather, manifold pressure) surprisingly correlates better, but the ratio still shows a lot of variation. What seems to be fairly constant is DPF diff.pressure divided by that exhaust pressure variable. That ratio is quite steady over a range of boost and RPM.

So, is there any other exhaust related pressure in one of the VCDS groups? The one I'm looking for is about 1.5 times the DPFdiff.pressure after a regen while driving , and closer to 1 times DPF before a regen. But I could also be imagining that; just knowing what VW/VCDS calls that pressure would help.

http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/500/D3E802F8708-2_0L_TDI_Common_Rail_CBEA-CJAA.pdf

Matt shared this here http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=4912716&postcount=104

feel free to look around.

as far as i know, there are two differential pressure sensors in the exhaust system, one is across the DPF, the other someplace in the low pressure EGR path.

Mike

Tarbe · Oct 14, 2015

I used to catch my '09 in a regen about every 200 to 300 miles, it seemed (had it 172,000 miles on it when it was totaled).

In 81,000 miles I have only caught my '13 in one regen!

No wonder I get so much better FE on the '13!

Tarbe · Oct 14, 2015

duplicate

jonferns · Oct 15, 2015

Mine goes into regen every 290-300 miles, seems pretty consistent.

McGuirk · Oct 16, 2015

Unless I missed it, am I the only one who feels the car in regen? Mine feels uneasy while its in the regen cycle. Besides the increase in idle RPM, the throttle is not as sensitive and it gives very slight jerks or hiccups even at highway speed. This has been the same in both my 2011 6 speed and my 2012 DSG. Other than that they happen more often on the 2011 because it has 100k on it; usually around 200 - 300 miles or so. On the newer 2012 its about every 600 miles it seems. I do mostly highway driving.

mr.shooty · Oct 16, 2015

My 2012 Golf is pretty consistent, as stated above. 60/40 City/Highway, I'm getting about 280 miles between regens, nowhere near 600 miles though.

30Bones · Oct 16, 2015

Still no idea how those without a VAGCOM are feeling or noticing a regen. Best friend is a service manager for a dealer and I know one of his master techs very well and both of them know way more about VW's than I do (and likely most on here) and both say it's not noticeable. :shrug:

ATR · Oct 16, 2015

30Bones said:
Still no idea how those without a VAGCOM are feeling or noticing a regen. Best friend is a service manager for a dealer and I know one of his master techs very well and both of them know way more about VW's than I do (and likely most on here) and both say it's not noticeable. :shrug:

You can feel a slight hiccup when it starts a regen. Beyond that I think some people are more in tuned with what their cars are doing.

Many here (myself included) have a Polar FIS that monitors many parameters and displays them in the MFD.
You can really keep a close eye on things that way.

VeeDubTDI · Oct 16, 2015

For comparison, our recent road trip to/from Michigan showed 465 mile regeneration intervals, which is the maximum on the Passat. City driving produces shorter intervals.

30Bones · Oct 19, 2015

ATR said:
You can feel a slight hiccup when it starts a regen. Beyond that I think some people are more in tuned with what their cars are doing.

Many here (myself included) have a Polar FIS that monitors many parameters and displays them in the MFD.
You can really keep a close eye on things that way.

I'd like to think I am pretty in tune with my car.

Maybe the hiccups aren't from the DSG like I always attributed it to, but it may well have been a regen?? Granted it always seems to be the most noticeable when the car is cold

bubbagumpshrimp · Oct 19, 2015

ATR said:
You can feel a slight hiccup when it starts a regen. Beyond that I think some people are more in tuned with what their cars are doing.

Many here (myself included) have a Polar FIS that monitors many parameters and displays them in the MFD.
You can really keep a close eye on things that way.

Yup. I can notice mine kick in around town or on the highway. Around town...the shudder of a regen kicking in is pretty pronounced...and it's gotten more so (and more frequent) since the 2306 recall was done.

ATR · Oct 19, 2015

30Bones said:
I'd like to think I am pretty in tune with my car. Maybe the hiccups aren't from the DSG like I always attributed it to, but it may well have been a regen?? Granted it always seems to be the most noticeable when the car is cold

It could be the dsg transmission... One thing I've learned about the dsg is to treat it like a manual transmission that's automated.

bubbagumpshrimp said:
Yup. I can notice mine kick in around town or on the highway. Around town...the shudder of a regen kicking in is pretty pronounced...and it's gotten more so (and more frequent) since the 2306 recall was done.

I've noticed that the mini regens are also quite frequent. The primary regeneration for me seems to be every 280 miles.

30Bones · Oct 19, 2015

ATR said:
It could be the dsg transmission... One thing I've learned about the dsg is to treat it like a manual transmission that's automated.

I've noticed that the mini regens are also quite frequent. The primary regeneration for me seems to be every 280 miles.

With nearly 80K under my belt with this car, I think I have the transmission manners down

distinktif · Oct 19, 2015

I've only had my '10 JSW since Labour Day, but since the 3 tanks I've filled, I notice about 200-250 miles in between regens.

jahlov420 · Oct 25, 2015

infinite miles cause i have no dpf anymore

Diesl · Oct 25, 2015

I'm now running torque (with an alarm set) regularly, and noticed that the regeneration interval varies so far between 180 and 240 miles. The length also varies quite a bit, between 4 and 15 miles.

13CJAA · Oct 27, 2015

Polar FIS video

I figured id post this link up as it relates to the conversation in this thread... For anyone wondering what the AutoPolar FIS is and how it works, heres a video I shot while I was driving my 13 Golf a year ago and noticed a regen was happening. I had no idea my video got over 10k views on YouTube in the past year!
https://youtu.be/dpAfReTd47M

Diesl · Apr 29, 2017

Related question: I've seen a handful of very long (15+ miles, 15+ minutes) regenerations. I think all of them on the highway, going at a good clip. The last one was approaching 20 miles, and showing no sign of ending, so I turned the ignition off and back on, and that ended it. Any idea what causes the really long regenerations?

meerschm · Apr 30, 2017

http://www.natef.org/NATEF/media/NATEFMedia/VW Files/2-0-TDI-SSP.pdf

look at the section starting at page 68. (to page 73)

the long regenerations are deSOX regenerations of the NSC aka NOX Cat.

always right after a normal DPF regeneration, but only every 3 or 5 or so DPF regens.

on my 09, I can see a DPF status byte that indicates which emission regeneration cycle is in operation.

The DeSOX regens are also very hot, exhaust temps before the turbo bounce close to 1500f during these.

Diesl · May 1, 2017

Thanks! How long do they take on your car?

ksing44 · May 1, 2017

meerschm said:
http://www.natef.org/NATEF/media/NATEFMedia/VW Files/2-0-TDI-SSP.pdf
look at the section starting at page 68. (to page 73)
the long regenerations are deSOX regenerations of the NSC aka NOX Cat.
always right after a normal DPF regeneration, but only every 3 or 5 or so DPF regens.
on my 09, I can see a DPF status byte that indicates which emission regeneration cycle is in operation.
The DeSOX regens are also very hot, exhaust temps before the turbo bounce close to 1500f during these.

It's truly amazing to see how sophisticated and complicated the exhaust and engine management system are and yet the car doesn't meet requirements and they still had to cheat. All of that for nothing! Tearing all that stuff out of the car looks better and better the more I learn about the car.

meerschm · May 2, 2017

Please don't jump to the conclusion that since VW had a cheat installed that the emissions treatment does not do anything.

it still makes the car quite a bit cleaner than one with "all that stuff" removed.

no one has posted a comparison of emissions from a deleted car.

(getting a B minus when you are expected by your parents to get all As does not mean you did not learn anything)

ksing44 · May 2, 2017

meerschm said:
Please don't jump to the conclusion that since VW had a cheat installed that the emissions treatment does not do anything.
it still makes the car quite a bit cleaner than one with "all that stuff" removed.
no one has posted a comparison of emissions from a deleted car.
(getting a B minus when you are expected by your parents to get all As does not mean you did not learn anything)

Very true! I guess I'm just a bit frustrated with regens at the moment. I don't like the way the car drives during the sustained regens and I get annoyed when they happen at inopportune moments so that I end up driving around wasting time waiting for them to finish. I guess I'm also a bit frustrated with the waiting and hoping for the fix to materialize and worrying about failures in the system while I'm waiting.

That said, I really do love my little car. Hopefully everything will turn out just fine!

VeeDubTDI · May 2, 2017

Diesl said:
Related question: I've seen a handful of very long (15+ miles, 15+ minutes) regenerations. I think all of them on the highway, going at a good clip. The last one was approaching 20 miles, and showing no sign of ending, so I turned the ignition off and back on, and that ended it. Any idea what causes the really long regenerations?

I've noticed that if you're cruising steady state on the highway with cruise control on, the regeneration will just go on and on, seemingly forever. If you cancel cruise control (or lift off of the accelerator if you aren't using cruise control), the regen will end.

I don't know why it gets locked into regeneration at steady state cruising, but it seems to be a repeatable occurrence, as I can get it to do it pretty much whenever I want.

My experience is on a 2012 Passat.

Diesl · May 3, 2017

VeeDubTDI said:
I've noticed that if you're cruising steady state on the highway with cruise control on, the regeneration will just go on and on, seemingly forever. If you cancel cruise control (or lift off of the accelerator if you aren't using cruise control), the regen will end.[...]

I tried stepping off the gas and coasting several times, but it didn't help. Does anybody know which bit or byte accessible via OBD has the info about the type of regeneration? I'm sure it's somewhere in the same mode 6 record that has the DPF soot load, but I just don't feel like searching through that word by word.

ksing44 · May 4, 2017

For me, the only thing that stops a regen is turning off the car. And the car has to stay off for a significant period of time or it will just keep on going as soon as I start the car again. I wish there were a way to stop one, because it's a total pain in the neck to drive around wasting time until it stops and everything cools down. It's especially irritating when the regen starts after a long commute just as I'm getting very close to home. At the end of a long work day and a long commute down the highway, the last thing I need is to drive around the neighborhoods wasting time to let the regen finish. Of course I could just turn off the car in the garage and let the fans run, but I decided that might not be the best practice after reading other people's opinions about shutting the car down with the exhaust temperature so high.

Diesl · May 4, 2017

If you are doing long commutes regularly, then you shouldn't worry about interrupting regenerations. If, on the other hand, you are only driving a few miles every time for weeks on end, then you could end up filling your DPF completely in as little as 200 miles. The leftover 2015 TDI I test drove was at 24 grams (out of 45 max) after only 123 miles; probably never completed a regeneration.

ksing44 · May 4, 2017

Diesl said:
If you are doing long commutes regularly, then you shouldn't worry about interrupting regenerations. If, on the other hand, you are only driving a few miles every time for weeks on end, then you could end up filling your DPF completely in as little as 200 miles. The leftover 2015 TDI I test drove was at 24 grams (out of 45 max) after only 123 miles; probably never completed a regeneration.

It's not the interrupting I'm worried about. I'm worried about turning the car off when the exhaust is so hot. I've read other's concerns about the heat possibly causing a cracked DPF or failed turbo, two expensive repairs. To me, based on those opinions, it made sense to simply drive until the regens are complete and the exhaust is cooled based on the EGT readings from my P3Cars vent gauge.

VeeDubTDI · May 4, 2017

ksing44 said:
It's not the interrupting I'm worried about. I'm worried about turning the car off when the exhaust is so hot. I've read other's concerns about the heat possibly causing a cracked DPF or failed turbo, two expensive repairs. To me, based on those opinions, it made sense to simply drive until the regens are complete and the exhaust is cooled based on the EGT readings from my P3Cars vent gauge.

I think you're being wise by letting regenerations finish. I'll let the car idle in the driveway rather than driving it around. They're usually finished in 5 - 10 minutes and EGT is back down to normal within a few minutes of the regen completing.

zaphod99 · May 4, 2017

ksing44 said:
For me, the only thing that stops a regen is turning off the car. And the car has to stay off for a significant period of time or it will just keep on going as soon as I start the car again. ...

This is in sharp contrast to my observations. After shutting off my Passat mid-regen, and immediately restarting, it NEVER goes back into regen (as observed using the Torque app). I have done this many times to let the car idle for ~2 minutes (or until ET1 is <= 400F) before shutting it down again.

How many miles are you seeing between regenerations?

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