BHW vs ALH parts

I'm getting ready to start my tdi jeep build that I've been gathering parts for.

I have an ALH that's going to be the base for it, and now that I have the B5.5 wagon, I have a few spare parts around.

Will the BHW exhaust manifold bolt up correctly to the ALH?

How about intake manifold?

Are the Turbos and actuators able to work off the same system?

Thanks,
Dan

Suggestion

Start a Thread in the TDI Conversions category, with a title such as, Jeep TDI Build.

As you have questions, others doing conversions will chime in.

Hi Andy,
That'll be the next step, just trying to get a bunch of the last parts in- and these questions are all rather generic, so I was trying not to clog the conversions forum with that.

Dan99TDI said:

I'm getting ready to start my tdi jeep build that I've been gathering parts for.

I have an ALH that's going to be the base for it, and now that I have the B5.5 wagon, I have a few spare parts around.

Will the BHW exhaust manifold bolt up correctly to the ALH?

How about intake manifold?

Are the Turbos and actuators able to work off the same system?

Thanks,
Dan

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what kind of power goals are you looking for its all going to be based off that? BHw is great if you want to go over 200 whp cause thats right where the Alh pistons etc start to go. What i will be doing here soon is putting Bhw pistons in my ALH because i am going to be going with a bigger turbo then the vnt 17, im not sure about the intake manifold and such but i have heard people doing that from a pd150 for the ALH's which even then isnt a big upgrade.. but its honestly going to be based off the turbo you have and etc cause if you have a vnt 17 no need to upgrade pistons, rods etc

OhCdn said:

what kind of power goals are you looking for its all going to be based off that? BHw is great if you want to go over 200 whp cause thats right where the Alh pistons etc start to go. What i will be doing here soon is putting Bhw pistons in my ALH because i am going to be going with a bigger turbo then the vnt 17, im not sure about the intake manifold and such but i have heard people doing that from a pd150 for the ALH's which even then isnt a big upgrade.. but its honestly going to be based off the turbo you have and etc cause if you have a vnt 17 no need to upgrade pistons, rods etc

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250hp actually is the realistic limit based on boost really.
You can use the alh pistons if you lower compression by machining them based on how much boost you will make and with a vtn 17 and variations of it, your limited to 20 to 23psi reliably with that setup. More can be made but it's not optimized. BHW pistons will work better but again, more boost means less compression needed to get max life them them. So its (like you said) about the goal.
Imo any mild budget build alh or ahu should be put at 250hp, cam, head work, 11mm IP, proper pistons, girdle plate, big turbo and some good nozzles like 520 or better the 764s will go a long way with a proper tune at about 30ish psi.
Anything more than this and we are talking rods, and specialty turbos and such. I'm not a guru on this but that's how I've taken all this power gain topic. Doing a 350hp build myself and there is not much difference in parts alh vs ahu, the alh is just newer.
Imo ahu is better as it runs a seperate belt for the water pump and is simpler.
Food for thought. I might not be 100% correct on this but that's how I understood it. Somone else can chime in and correct me if I'm wrong.

I wouldn't expect either of those manifolds to bolt up. But heck, I don't really know. Not a lot of use have worked on that type project. OH would know, some others. Try over in conversions or get detailed specifications for each engine.

Power goal is 200hp 300 ftlbs, probably starting lower to learn more as I go

Dan99TDI said:

Power goal is 200hp 300 ftlbs, probably starting lower to learn more as I go

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im running that now on stock internals ALH with vnt 17(gt1749vb) no need for engine work my dude unless you are looking to push it alot farther, like mongler said it can hold up a little more than 200hp and i am at 200hp reliably, the main thing you are going to have to look out for at that point is a nice clutch, i had a southbend stage 2 daily slip at these numbers and upgraded to a southbend stage 3 endurance which is a single mass flywheel and apparently can hold up to 450ft lb. Now i have seen mixed feelings with the single mass flywheels but personally i have loved them we will see when i start to build my tdi what it will actually hold as i am looking to go for 300 hp which i will need to switch out my internals with these pistons, still trying to figure out what rods to throw in tho.. if you have heard of any good ones let me know. so in short if you want to push it past 250hp or so i would throw the pistons in but if your thinking about staying below 250 just a solid clutch,11mm IP, Nozzles bounch of choices out there, Gt1749vb or bigger turbo as it is maxed around 200hp, and a nice tune i have a malone stage 5. please feel free to dm me if you have any other questions thanks

I have an ALH in my vanagon. It came from a 98 new beetle. Pan, engine mounts, etc had to be fabricated from scratch. My 82 was a diesel, so I was able to reuse the 50 degee bellhousing and engine carrier bars. My understanding is the other engines you mention come from earlier years and have the same mounting or near same mounting bosses so that if you have click speed test the parts from an 82 diesel vanagon, those engines should bolt right in. Then all you need is the wiring unless you opt for a mechanical pump. Not a bad idea if the elec intimidates you. Any engine newer than 98 you will want a complete donor car in my opinion. At some point the ECU's have an immobilizer circuit that needs to be dealt with. Many are using the clusters from the doaner. I am using my original vanagon cluster. I am partial to the stock appearance. Go here for additional information. http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/TDI-conversion/ Without a doubt my vanagon is the nicest vehicle I have ever owned with the conversion.

OhCdn said:

im running that now on stock internals ALH with vnt 17(gt1749vb) no need for engine work my dude unless you are looking to push it alot farther, like mongler said it can hold up a little more than 200hp and i am at 200hp reliably, the main thing you are going to have to look out for at that point is a nice clutch, i had a southbend stage 2 daily slip at these numbers and upgraded to a southbend stage 3 endurance which is a single mass flywheel and apparently can hold up to 450ft lb. Now i have seen mixed feelings with the single mass flywheels but personally i have loved them we will see when i start to build my tdi what it will actually hold as i am looking to go for 300 hp which i will need to switch out my internals with these pistons, still trying to figure out what rods to throw in tho.. if you have heard of any good ones let me know. so in short if you want to push it past 250hp or so i would throw the pistons in but if your thinking about staying below 250 just a solid clutch,11mm IP, Nozzles bounch of choices out there, Gt1749vb or bigger turbo as it is maxed around 200hp, and a nice tune i have a malone stage 5. please feel free to dm me if you have any other questions thanks

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IMHO I don't think that a stock ALH will live very long at 200hp/300ft-lbs.At minumum I would have H beam rods, ASV or ARL pistons, and 12.9 head bolts. The factory rods are pretty weak.

turbocharged798 said:

IMHO I don't think that a stock ALH will live very long at 200hp/300ft-lbs.At minumum I would have H beam rods, ASV or ARL pistons, and 12.9 head bolts. The factory rods are pretty weak.

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the factory rods are plenty strong, just every time I open an engine I get another couple bent rods to toss in my collection
no rod is strong when bent

look at the bearings next time you tear one down, #2 and #3 will be worn more to one side, and if you pull the pistons you'll see the skirt coating worn off at an angle rather than a round patch in the center, possibly with wear marks on one side of the piston's top ring land

turbocharged798 said:

IMHO I don't think that a stock ALH will live very long at 200hp/300ft-lbs.At minumum I would have H beam rods, ASV or ARL pistons, and 12.9 head bolts. The factory rods are pretty weak.

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It's almost been a year now and several people do this on alhs all the time.. but I guess everyone has a say

DeloresRuggiero said:

Any engine newer than 98 you will want a complete donor car in my opinion.

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I took apart my 03 with a failed automatic, and pulled 95% of the parts I need.

So, interestingly, my 5th Tdi (this jeep) will be powered by the motor from my 1st tdi


To the discussion of power goals- I am thinking head studs and ring gap check should get me safely to 160-180, and after that I'll start gathering parts.

Still trying to find out if manifolds interchange between the BHW (which I have some parts for) and the ALH

Dan99TDI said:

I took apart my 03 with a failed automatic, and pulled 95% of the parts I need.
So, interestingly, my 5th Tdi (this jeep) will be powered by the motor from my 1st tdi
To the discussion of power goals- I am thinking head studs and ring gap check should get me safely to 160-180, and after that I'll start gathering parts.
Still trying to find out if manifolds interchange between the BHW (which I have some parts for) and the ALH

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for sure man thats being really safe, which is good. If your going to change stuff anyways once you get bored of 160-180 turn er up to 200 till you get your other parts in ?

Dan,

This is a future project of mine... when I find the time.

The first thing, the BHW manifold will bolt up to the ALH engine; no problem. However, it seems more usual to weld a bolt mount for a different bolt pattern turbo, like I'm thinking the 1856 and turn the exhaust to a more practical angle. The triangular bolt pattern for the stock turbo may not be as appropriate. It's a matter of getting the engine lined up and checking clearances and piping direction. One thing is for sure... You will be able to climb in there to work on it.

I've got real good access for the Jeep adapter.

Personally, it's hard for me to put in stock rods when we see the carnage from bent ones. Just today, the replacement engine started for yet another customer who bent all four rods. I need to send him a gold star for the windshield. That's hard to do, but not impossible, obviously. So, my intent is to 'Do It Once', and if you build with H-beam rods, the price difference will not kill you, especially if you use the engine for effect. And you will bend stock rods.

When building with head studs, the first thing is to hone the block with a torque plate to make the holes correctly round. I'll tell you what is strange. When the block is correctly honed, then the plate removed, we have complaints, especially if using the larger BHW pistons, that the pistons won't fit. To prove the point, we re-torqued the block with the plate and the problem disappeared. We warm the block up with a propane torch until it's warm to the touch. Once the skirt of the piston passes the first 1" or so, the piston fits just fine. To the contrary, we have seen piston bores pulled out of shape to wear limit when installing ARP studs when installed into a block that previously was running stock head bolts.

There are a lot of questions and direction for this project.

We are building a Wrangler/BEW later this year. I think the BEW is likely to be one of the most durable engines, particularly if it is not overpowered.

crickets...

Franko6 said:

crickets...

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Hey frank personally speaking, how far would you push a stock alh? Before rod bending and internal failure.. hp wise really curious on the reply.

Franko6 said:

Personally, it's hard for me to put in stock rods when we see the carnage from bent ones. Just today, the replacement engine started for yet another customer who bent all four rods. I need to send him a gold star for the windshield. T

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it is hard to put too much weight into this sort of datapoint, as we can't know what sort of tune they were using
Very easy to break stuff with a poor tune. Decent fuel hardware, no torque limits and far too advanced timing with a tiny little turbo that'll lug up to full boost at 1200 rpm? 500 ft/lb and broken parts are a guarantee.

If I already have a customer who has bent rods, it's not a difficult step to upgrade rods that end up being very competitive against the price of VW's OEM rods. Then, you can set the issue of bending rods aside, as it's just not going to happen. Especially when the particular needs of a customer could be drag racing or off-road, hill climb or any number of high torque, low rpm speeds. So, it it's 500 ft lbs, it's not the rods that will bend, but sure, things can happen.

If you eliminate the most likely failure point, you simply move the failure to another item, assuming you want to push it that way. Although I will agree, high output creates failure situations, the work to compensate for those issues is a reasonable choice...especially if the stock rods your tried first, are bent.

Why wouldn't you upgrade? To give you an idea, we match stock rods and pistons for weight and balance to match a damaged piston/ rod set. That costs $125. If it's two, we are charging $250, plus $100 of rings, $50 rod bolts $36 of rod bearings. So, a set of rods that already include ARP 2000 hardware is something of a bargain, especially if you can assure the customer, the rod will not bend again. The strength of the rod exceeds the ability of the engine, in our opinion

Franko6 said:

Dan,

This is a future project of mine... when I find the time.



I've got real good access for the Jeep adapter.



We are building a Wrangler/BEW later this year. I think the BEW is likely to be one of the most durable engines, particularly if it is not overpowered.

Click to expand...

Hybrid or all BEW?

Franko6 said:

Dan,

I've got real good access for the Jeep adapter.
...
Personally, it's hard for me to put in stock rods when we see the carnage from bent ones. Just today, the replacement engine started for yet another customer who bent all four rods. I need to send him a gold star for the windshield.

When building with head studs, the first thing is to hone the block with a torque plate to make the holes correctly round. I'll tell you what is strange.

Click to expand...

Hi Frank,
Thanks for the info. Sorry for the Delay, I was off getting married.

I'm running a Toyota transmission, since I found a r150f very affordable, and found a cad file for an adapter plate online for free.

My motor is still together, and actually had been freshened up about 50k miles before the auto went out, so that's why the plan to run as is. Should get me a few good years of wheeling before I get bored with 35's and 160hp in a jeep I expect to be pretty light.

Lol at the gold star.

I have ALH in my van. It comes from a new error 98. The frying pan, motor brackets, etc. must be produced without any preparation. My 82 was diesel, so I had the option of reusing the 50-degree telescopic link and transport beams. My layout is the different engines you noticed, they are from years ago and have a similar build or close to the same assembly managers, so if you get a chance to test the clock speed of a part 82 diesel van. places, these engines must be bolted directly. all you need is wiring unless you choose a mechanical siphon. It's not a bad idea if the elect scares you. Any engine with a current greater than 98 ome tv will need the total donor vehicle as click speed test I would see it. Sooner or later, ECUs have an immobilizer circuit that needs to be managed. Many take advantage of groups of victims. I use my unique Vanagon group. I often look at the factory. Click here for additional details. http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/bunch/TDI-transformation/ Without any uncertainty, my van is the nicest vehicle I have ever claimed with a change.