Better not crash your car between June 28th - Sept 16th

flee · Jul 23, 2016

nrp,
I'd worry more about the alignment issue. The body can be bent or cut away from the tire.
Your body could be tweaked or the control arm(s) could be bent, so check those.
I would spend the minimum to make the car safely drivable if you plan to drive it.
This would seem to be a perfect example of a car to let VW buy back!

Mollsmom · Jul 23, 2016

buzzo said:
Received a call from a class settlement lawyer to discuss my letter of objection. My main objection was the clause removing you from the settlement if you total your car, or to be more precise, if you transfer title between 6/28/16 and 9/16/16. He admitted there is some ambiguity in the proposed settlement agreement, but that it is understood that it doesn't matter when the car was totaled, but when title gets transferred.

His advise to those who have to respond to their insurance company's offer is to delay any transfer of title until after 9/16/16 and if the car can be made operable then it is eligible for the Buyback, and if it is not and title gets transferred to the insurance company you're eligible for Owner's Restitution.

I kept the car after it was totaled on July 3, but we had to turn in the title to the state & they will re-issue the title to us with the salvage indication. What do people think - is this process considered a "transfer" for this purpose? Same name, but the insurance company reported the totaling and we had no choice under state law.

02 jetta · Jul 24, 2016

if you have a loan on the car the check goes to the shop. I went through the other company and they actually sent the check to me. I was going to pay off the car if need be. Not looking like I am going to have to pay it off

nrp · Jul 25, 2016

nrp said:
Hi guys. My 09 JSW was in an accident and has an initial estimate of $4k. Damage is front driver corner, it's not drivable since there is jagged metal going into the tire and the wheel is off alignment.

For now the check is going to the shop like normal, which is fine especially in case the shop needs more money they can go back to insurance. But I'm starting to think, should I just take the money and get some shop to make bare minimum or lesser repairs to get by? I was planning on waiting until late next year to do the buyback, so I'm not sure if I want to drive a junker that long but I could accelerate my buyback.

There's one other factor, the other driver is fibbing and saying that I was speeding and ran into her even though i saw her coming into my lane. Honestly, this is not true, she tried to turn right into a parking lot last second from the CENTER lane and didn't see me driving in the right lane in her haste. I wasn't speeding and me hitting her on purpose is absolutely absurd.

In MD, if someone is only 1% at fault you don't get to claim it under the other party insurance. So even though both insurances agree it's her fault they might say not 100% since there's some my-word-against-hers about if I could have avoided it. So I might lose a $500 deductible and risk insurance going up bc this young lady won't take responsibility. Perhaps I take the insurance check and tell the shop to cut a corner or two (maybe leave the tiny bit of driver door damage alone) so I can recover my deductible.

What do you guys think? I guess I'm asking, what would you guys do? And I'm also asking, is it for sure VW doesn't care about dents/damage when we do the buyback?

So an update on this. I decided i want to pocket some money. I could easily get away with leaving a slightly bent hood, driver door, chipped grill and scraped tire tread. I am estimating more than 50% of the repairs. I called my insurance and told them straight up what i wanted to do, VW buyback program and everything. I wanted to make sure this is all legal and ok. They said i have no lien so yes i can do that. BUT, they called the shop and the shop has already started repairs and wont stop. I have them change the check to send to me anyways and call the shop myself. I get the runaround and excuses for why they are legally obligated to finish the repairs (which i know they have not even started). Seems crazy that i cant say, stop repairs, bill me for what you did but i dont want anything else. But i get it, the shop wants the money for as much work as they can get and they arent going to make an exception for me, it would be a shtshow if every customer had the option of stopping repairs and doing partial payment.

I basically give up, letting the car get repaired, at least it will be whole and look normal the remainder of time i have it. Had i understood the system a little more i would have been able to take advantage, but i sort of just went with the flow in the beginning and now i cant go back. Unfortunately because the other driver is lying about fault i will likely lose my deductible, damn state of MD policies. I chalk this up to "Sh!t happens". I'm lucky that the sh!t didnt happen while my kid was in his car seat!

RollingCoal · Jul 25, 2016

I would go in there and demand to see the car. I had something somewhat similar happen a few months ago where a shop had my car for like 3 weeks after saying it would take 5 days. Every day they kept telling me it was almost done. I went in there and demanded to see the car and they wouldn't let me so I basically lost it on the manager and they eventually let me see the car. The repairs haven't even been started. They had a few panels off but basically did nothing. I had a very tense talk with the manager and had my car back 3 days later finished.

richbl · Jul 25, 2016

My POOR Golf TDI was just totaled

Hello All,
Well, I'd rather not be posting here, but... last week (7/20) my wife was rear-ended while driving my 2011 Golf TDI. While the Golf probably saved her life--she was hit by a Toyota Forerunner which has a bumper that's significantly higher than the TDI's bumper, causing the back end of the car to end up in the back seat--my Golf was totaled. ~$11K of damages, not including the expectation that there was more damage deeper in the unibody. Both the body repair shop and the insurance company from the person who caused the accident have called this a total loss.

So, at the moment I haven't received a call from the assessor (only mention from the body shop), so I HAVE NOT RELEASED my TDI to the insurance company.

My read from this thread suggests that:

A) As long as I still have title of the vehicle AND
B) I can drive the vehicle to the dealership on/after the September settlement date...

... I am still active in the VW buyback.

Is my TDI still drivable? Yes. Is it street legal? According to the police presiding over the accident, no. Should this matter?

So... my question to this forum is:

Am I missing anything here? Suggestions on how better to proceed?

Thanks

Rich

RollingCoal · Jul 25, 2016

I'm interested to know what happens if you are able to decline having the car totaled and don't make a claim on it. I'm unclear myself but it does seem from what I've read that the car only has to arrive under its own power. Don't use my assessment to make your decision as I am not sure if that is 100% accurate. Still though, I don't recall seeing any provisions where the car must be road legal at the time of turning it in, only that it has to make it there on its own and you have to hold the title.

bizzle · Jul 26, 2016

richbl said:
Is my TDI still drivable? Yes. Is it street legal? According to the police presiding over the accident, no. Should this matter?

The only issue not being road legal raises is getting a ticket on the way to the dealership to drop it off for they buy-back.

Use your complimentary roadside assistance to tow your car to the dealership. It still drives under its own power, so if they have a problem with you dropping it off on the lot drive it around the block and bring it back.

jsm172 · Jul 26, 2016

So what happens if I am waiting for the fix and my car gets totaled after the september 16 date?

MichaelB · Jul 26, 2016

jsm172 said:
So what happens if I am waiting for the fix and my car gets totaled after the september 16 date?

Your insurance company will pay for it.

rico227 · Jul 26, 2016

richbl said:
My read from this thread suggests that:
A) As long as I still have title of the vehicle AND
B) I can drive the vehicle to the dealership on/after the September settlement date...
... I am still active in the VW buyback.
Is my TDI still drivable? Yes. Is it street legal? According to the police presiding over the accident, no. Should this matter?
Rich

I find the visual of someone driving a totaled car to a VW lot for a buyback completely hilarious. That being said, I would call the phone number that's supposed to go live today and get more info on if that would be acceptable. Just to make sure.

pikawel · Jul 26, 2016

richbl,
I had something similar happen and though it was prior to June 28th I had the same concerns. Insurance called mine a total loss. I asked them to give me the repair amount instead which they said was going to be less money (maybe 80% of the total amount). I was very open with why I was I was opting for the repair money.
Ultimately they left the option open for me to total it within the statue of limitations which may be as long as two years. I haven't looked into that and hopefully I don't need to.

richbl · Jul 26, 2016

pikawel said:
richbl,
I had something similar happen and though it was prior to June 28th I had the same concerns. Insurance called mine a total loss. I asked them to give me the repair amount instead which they said was going to be less money (maybe 80% of the total amount). I was very open with why I was I was opting for the repair money.
Ultimately they left the option open for me to total it within the statue of limitations which may be as long as two years. I haven't looked into that and hopefully I don't need to.

So here's my question to you then... at what point does VW consider you no longer eligible for the full buyback if your car was determined to be totaled?

I've read the VW restitution documentation, and it's evident that a totaled VW that is/was part of the buyback is no longer eligible (I forget what section) if totaled between 6/28 and sometime in September.

Who makes the declaration "this car is totaled" in this context? And is it the act of declaring a vehicle totaled that matters, or is it the ownership of the vehicle or the ownership of the title of that vehicle that matters?

I'm in a position where I have a TDI that is (was?) valued at ~$18K per the buyback calculations. Do I literally need to sit on this car until September and then drag/drive it into the dealership? Or will I be doing that for no good reason if VW has already somehow disqualified my TDI due to the accident?

da_jokker · Jul 26, 2016

nrp said:
So an update on this. I decided i want to pocket some money. I could easily get away with leaving a slightly bent hood, driver door, chipped grill and scraped tire tread. I am estimating more than 50% of the repairs. I called my insurance and told them straight up what i wanted to do, VW buyback program and everything. I wanted to make sure this is all legal and ok. They said i have no lien so yes i can do that. BUT, they called the shop and the shop has already started repairs and wont stop. I have them change the check to send to me anyways and call the shop myself. I get the runaround and excuses for why they are legally obligated to finish the repairs (which i know they have not even started). Seems crazy that i cant say, stop repairs, bill me for what you did but i dont want anything else. But i get it, the shop wants the money for as much work as they can get and they arent going to make an exception for me, it would be a shtshow if every customer had the option of stopping repairs and doing partial payment.

I basically give up, letting the car get repaired, at least it will be whole and look normal the remainder of time i have it. Had i understood the system a little more i would have been able to take advantage, but i sort of just went with the flow in the beginning and now i cant go back. Unfortunately because the other driver is lying about fault i will likely lose my deductible, damn state of MD policies. I chalk this up to "Sh!t happens". I'm lucky that the sh!t didnt happen while my kid was in his car seat!

I don't think they can actually do that. It easy to say because it is not happening to me, but I'd be tempted to call the shop and say "I don't care what you think you need to fix, but you are only getting paid for what I authorize you to fix..so your choice".

da_jokker · Jul 26, 2016

richbl said:
So here's my question to you then... at what point does VW consider you no longer eligible for the full buyback if your car was determined to be totaled?
I've read the VW restitution documentation, and it's evident that a totaled VW that is/was part of the buyback is no longer eligible (I forget what section) if totaled between 6/28 and sometime in September.
Who makes the declaration "this car is totaled" in this context? And is it the act of declaring a vehicle totaled that matters, or is it the ownership of the vehicle or the ownership of the title of that vehicle that matters?
I'm in a position where I have a TDI that is (was?) valued at ~$18K per the buyback calculations. Do I literally need to sit on this car until September and then drag/drive it into the dealership? Or will I be doing that for no good reason if VW has already somehow disqualified my TDI due to the accident?

Totaled is just a reference to the status of the car title. it has literally NOTHING to do with the condition of the car. It is simply numbers. If it will cost the insurance company more to fix the car than the car is worth, they will "total" it.

To take it to extreme.. say you have an old car that just happens to have a very, very expensive rear bumper. A car hits you and smashed the bumper. Everything about the car is perfectly fine, but it would cost $5k to fix that bumper and the car is only worth $4k.... the insurance company would total it.

Then someone could buy the car, bend the bumper back to someone straight, and now have a perfectly good car.. but with a "Salvaged" title. Bam... you now own a pain in the butt to deal with because the title isn't clean.

richbl · Jul 26, 2016

da_jokker said:
Totaled is just a reference to the status of the car title. it has literally NOTHING to do with the condition of the car. It is simply numbers. If it will cost the insurance company more to fix the car than the car is worth, they will "total" it.
To take it to extreme.. say you have an old car that just happens to have a very, very expensive rear bumper. A car hits you and smashed the bumper. Everything about the car is perfectly fine, but it would cost $5k to fix that bumper and the car is only worth $4k.... the insurance company would total it.
Then someone could buy the car, bend the bumper back to someone straight, and now have a perfectly good car.. but with a "Salvaged" title. Bam... you now own a pain in the butt to deal with because the title isn't clean.

Good explanation... thanks.

Since I've been obligated thus far to have the opposing insurance company do their due diligence to determine the cost of repair, and they've determined that it's totaled (too expensive or too difficult to repair), I'm reluctant to release my totaled car to them. Does that really change anything?

My hope is that I retain ownership of the car. That it was determined to be totaled by some insurance company should be inconsequential, right?

Then... one glorious rainy Seattle day in September... I rattle into the dealership under my own turbo-diesel power, drop the keys off and claim my restitution.

Ironic that this is how my TDI ownership comes to a close

.

Thanks

Rich

pikawel · Jul 27, 2016

richbl said:
Ironic that this is how my TDI ownership comes to a close .
Thanks
Rich

It really is. I feel the same way.

Regarding your situation, that's exactly what I did. I received a total loss offer and I asked to take the repair money and would take care of repairs myself. I have the car back, I received my repair money which was less than 80% of the total loss amount (it also doesn't include money from state registration reimbursement, the tires or anything else that one would receive money for on a car that is done for).

bizzle · Jul 27, 2016

The issue is the actual title of the car (not what someone decides) and even then it probably won't matter. The reason that language was in the settlement wasn't to cross out owners who had been in accidents but to prevent people from going down to junkyards and hauling heaps home and somehow get them going enough under their own power to make it across the dealers' threshold. Double check the language, but my memory was it went something like, "must not have a salvage title" *and* "from a wrecking yard" meaning both conditions need to be true to disqualify the car.

In the cases described, you guys don't have salvaged titles because you haven't sold your cars to the insurance companies and bought them back yet. But it doesn't sound like it would preclude you from taking the settlement even if you did. So you could play it safe and just do what you're doing or you could clarify with VW and see if you can go ahead and take the settlement check for a total loss, rebuy the car from the insurance company, and then turn your title over for a branded one, and still turn the car in for buyback.

richbl · Jul 27, 2016

@pikawel, I finally received a message from Progressive (the 'offenders' insurance carrier), and will be speaking with them today (WE).

From what it sounds like, I can take ~80% of the total loss amount, and still keep my title? Like you, my goal is to get my car back home and sit on it until I get the go-ahead to bring it into the dealership.

BTW, I was able to register this morning through the new VW claims site (https://claims.vwgoa.com), and there was no question about the state of my vehicle as of today's date. All references to vehicle status was tied to September, 2015.

So, at least at the moment, I'm registered through the VW buyback program with the earliest-possible scheduled return date of 11/1/2016 (hoping that changes to a more immediate date).

Also, separately, I'm just now reading the Long Form from the hearing earlier this week, and quite a bit of changes have been made since the 6/28 Long Form. Currently reading the diffs between these two documents in hopes that I can justify my (our) assumptions about totaled vehicle returns.

richbl · Jul 27, 2016

@bizzle, this is good information. And timely too.

You're suggesting that I could take the settlement check from the insurance company, and then buy it back again. So, I'd have the physical vehicle, the settlement money, and--in theory--I could turn it at the VW dealership as a part of the buyback program.

Is there any benefit going that route vs. what @pikawel has done?

Regardless, probably worth contacting VW to get their interpretation of how to proceed as well.

Thanks for your help.

Rich

richbl · Jul 27, 2016

Just got off the phone with their Progressive agent.

The offer for payout of the totaled 2011 TDI is ~$13K.
The offer for repair is ~$10K.

I'm waiting for a confirmation email with detailed numbers, explanations, and fine print.

Interestingly, even I if took the repair option, the rep indicated that the title to my car would still become a salvage title (which takes ~8 weeks to process). Does that make sense?

My thinking was that if I took the repair route/payout, I keep title/ownership as is.

I'm hoping to talk with VW on this issue sometime today.

More to come.

Thanks

Rich

da_jokker · Jul 27, 2016

richbl said:
Just got off the phone with their Progressive agent.

The offer for payout of the totaled 2011 TDI is ~$13K.
The offer for repair is ~$10K.

I'm waiting for a confirmation email with detailed numbers, explanations, and fine print.

Interestingly, even I if took the repair option, the rep indicated that the title to my car would still become a salvage title (which takes ~8 weeks to process). Does that make sense?

My thinking was that if I took the repair route/payout, I keep title/ownership as is.

I'm hoping to talk with VW on this issue sometime today.

More to come.

Thanks

Rich

Not at all... someone probably knows more than me, but when an Insurance company Totals a car it is because THEY DON'T WANT TO PAY FOR REPAIR... it is not worth it.

you can then buy the car back (in it's crashed state),and do whatever you want to it.

10K in repairs is 80% of value so it really seems like that road should lead to a clean title and not a salvaged.

fredthe · Jul 27, 2016

da_jokker said:
Not at all... someone probably knows more than me, but when an Insurance company Totals a car it is because THEY DON'T WANT TO PAY FOR REPAIR... it is not worth it.
you can then buy the car back (in it's crashed state),and do whatever you want to it.
10K in repairs is 80% of value so it really seems like that road should lead to a clean title and not a salvaged.

And, in some states the legislature is in the pocket of the insurance companies and it's mandated by law. In MD, if the damage is over 75% of the value the insurance co MUST declare it totaled. In addition if you opt to keep it and repair it they will deduct what they could have sold it for at auction from the value. It's best to check the applicable state law.

richbl · Jul 27, 2016

@da__jokker, thanks for the follow-up. I'm still waiting to get something in writing from Progressive regarding both offers and the specifics of each. Clearly I want to retain an unbranded title through 11/1/2016 which is the current scheduled "drop off my TDI at my dealership and walk away" day.

In the meantime, I've individually contacted six attorneys identified as acting members of the Class Counsel on "Exhibit/Attachment 3 - Long Form Notice" dated 7/26/2016. See Question 54 for that list.

My interest in contacting these attorneys is:

--To understand their interpretation of my (our) situation
--To identify whether all attorneys respond in kind. Meaning, if I get answers that vary significantly, that would suggest a great deal of subjectivity and interpretation to the Settlement. Not a good sign.

I'm still hoping to get VWs side of the equation.

Thanks

Rich

bizzle · Jul 27, 2016

80% threshold is relatively standard for a salvage title. That's to protect consumers more than legislation being in the pocket of insurance companies. While there are edge cases of a 2k repair bill totaling a car that's not the usual circumstances. Most people with a car under 3k value aren't carrying comprehensive.

It doesn't take much to do 2k damage with a modern car. But you really wouldn't want to be in a market where a car could take an undocumented 10k repair bill. Insurance companies don't want to total your car out.

The difference between the two options is your get to keep the car. You have a third option of declining anything and not accepting any money but I don't see an advantage to that based on how I'm interpreting the salvage clause.

richbl · Jul 27, 2016

@bizzle, I agree. If I can take the lesser repair settlement over the acquire settlement, and still proceed with participation in the VW Settlement (specifically the buyback), that makes the most sense.

I just received a response from one of the VW Settlement Class Counsel members. I've asked for permission to share his response here on this forum.

His interpretation is that as long as:

A) the vehicle is operable under it's own power (as stated in the Settlement)

AND

B) the owner still has title to the vehicle

THEN the vehicle is still eligible for the participation in the Settlement.

On (B), I've ask for clarification regarding whether it matters if the title has a brand (e.g., salvage). As you point out @bizzle, I believe the intent of the wording in the Settlement is to prevent someone from "recycling" a wrecked TDI for the cash out.

Now, I'm hoping that the other VW Class Counsel members respond with similar interpretations...

Rich

richbl · Jul 27, 2016

Just spoke with VW Corporate using their just-released VWGOA Settlement Support Team number (which is not as posted... the corrected phone number is 1-844-982-5246, not 4246).

According to one of their representatives, after describing my situation, she first indicated that, according to Question 11 ("Exhibit/Attachment 3 - Long Form Notice" dated 7/26/2016), I am not eligible because the vehicle was totaled after 6/28.

I then explained that I still have title of the vehicle AND the vehicle is operable. That seems to have muddied the logic of Question 11, as now she's unsure as to whether my TDI is eligible to participate in the Settlement.

At this point, the VW representative is discussing the situation with her resources, and will get back to me with a more definitive answer.

So, at the moment, it's a tie game:

--One VW Settlement Class Counsel says "yes, eligible"
--One VWGOA Settlement Support Team member says "no, not eligible"

More to come.

Rich

richbl · Jul 27, 2016

richbl said:
Just spoke with VW Corporate using their just-released VWGOA Settlement Support Team number (which is not as posted... the corrected phone number is 1-844-982-5246, not 4246).

According to one of their representatives, after describing my situation, she first indicated that, according to Question 11 ("Exhibit/Attachment 3 - Long Form Notice" dated 7/26/2016), I am not eligible because the vehicle was totaled after 6/28.

I then explained that I still have title of the vehicle AND the vehicle is operable. That seems to have muddied the logic of Question 11, as now she's unsure as to whether my TDI is eligible to participate in the Settlement.

At this point, the VW representative is discussing the situation with her resources, and will get back to me with a more definitive answer.

So, at the moment, it's a tie game:

--One VW Settlement Class Counsel says "yes, eligible"
--One VWGOA Settlement Support Team member says "no, not eligible"

More to come.

Rich

Follow-up from VWGOA Settlement Support Team (via phone):

The totaled vehicle is still eligible IF:

A) the vehicle is operable under it's own power (as stated in the Settlement)

AND

B) the owner still has CLEAN title to the vehicle (no branding, not even salvage)

Note that in my case, the accident occurred after 6/28, which is significant because of the explicit exception made in Question 11.

Rich

da_jokker · Jul 27, 2016

richbl said:
Just spoke with VW Corporate using their just-released VWGOA Settlement Support Team number (which is not as posted... the corrected phone number is 1-844-982-5246, not 4246).

According to one of their representatives, after describing my situation, she first indicated that, according to Question 11 ("Exhibit/Attachment 3 - Long Form Notice" dated 7/26/2016), I am not eligible because the vehicle was totaled after 6/28.

I then explained that I still have title of the vehicle AND the vehicle is operable. That seems to have muddied the logic of Question 11, as now she's unsure as to whether my TDI is eligible to participate in the Settlement.

At this point, the VW representative is discussing the situation with her resources, and will get back to me with a more definitive answer.

So, at the moment, it's a tie game:

--One VW Settlement Class Counsel says "yes, eligible"
--One VWGOA Settlement Support Team member says "no, not eligible"

More to come.

Rich

I hope it works out for you. I really don't think there is much in the way of interpretation though. You're title will either be tagged as salvaged or not. If I were in your shoes, I'd do everything I can to keep the payout of the insurance company next to nothing but I can see the problem.

The Insurance Company and Shop may be obligated to return you car to pre-accident state unless they total it. Meaning if they can't fix it 100% they have to total it.

Your situation may be why some people just had their wrecked car towed to their house and is letting it sit. Get it running so You can drive it and call it good.

Personally, I wish someone with good insurance would tag my car, pay me just 1-3K and I'd not worry about actually fixing the car.

GyroRon · Jul 27, 2016

Im thinking in a nutshell, that so as long as the car is still driveable, Just don't worry about the insurance company. put the car in your driveway and park it till the buyback then take it in and get your money.

If the insurance pays you for the damage your gonna have to give them the title before they give you a check and they will make your title a branded title. Not worth it.

Better not crash your car between June 28th - Sept 16th

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