Newbie's 2006 Golf TDI Won't Start

Please tell me I haven't already killed this car.

This past summer I flew down to North Carolina and bought a 2006 VW Golf TDI (four door, manual transmission) with fewer than 40k miles and drove it home to St. Louis. I've been driving it on B100 (100% biodiesel) ever since. Because sometimes we have real winter here, I got a Frostheater (which heats the coolant) and had it installed.

Two Saturdays ago it got pretty cold (single digits) but the car started right up as usual after a couple of hours with the Frostheater turned on. I went to an appointment about four miles away, driving slowly to get there...about 20 MPH. The car was parked on the street for two hours in the cold. When I came out it still started easily and so I started home. I made it a couple of miles and the car was running just like normal when suddenly, with no warning whatsoever, it quit. There was no coughing or shuddering to warn me that something was up, no deceleration. I was able to pull off the pavement in front of a fire station where I called for a tow and got to wait inside. (No I don't have a cell phone.)

I had the car towed to my house and waited until today (over a week and a half later) to try to start it. Last night I put my trickle charger on it to make sure the battery was fully charged, and this afternoon I turned on the Frostheater to make sure the engine was pre-warmed. It's nearly 50*F today.

The car won't start. The battery and the starter are strong. But the car just grinds when I turn the key.

I am, as you can tell, not very mechanical. But to me it seems like there's no fuel getting to the cylinders. Could I have ruined the IP? Or is there some other less expensive possibility?

It's been warm now for two days now, so it's hard to imagine the fuel filter is clogged up, especially since it was recently changed and the fuel is liquid not gelled.

Do IPs die without any warning at all...no lurching or gasping? Part of me is shocked if it's the IP at only 40k miles, because even petroleum diesel fuel will gel and you would think the IP would be engineered to take it.

Is there some kind of orifice that could be coked and could be cleaned?

Any thoughts on this?

Maud

Your car don't have IP. Your car has pump injectors. .So you have lift pump in tank and tandem pump at cylinder head.
You need to check your lift pump witch is located in fuel tank.
Pul out rear seats and find connectors going to tank. Have someone toy turn ignition on while you have your ear close to connector .If you don't hear nothing then your pump is not working. You need to check does power going to pump and if it does then you need to replace pump.
This is very common failure on PD engines.

Thank you so much for your advice. As I have never worked on a car before (other than changing my fuel filter and air filter on my 1985 Mercedes,) I have some basic questions.

On the Mercedes, the fuel tank is behind the back seats, but this VW is a hatchback where the seat backs sort of drop down. Am I right in thinking the fuel tank is under the hatch/behind the back seats? Do you pull up the back seats just by yanking on them at the back or is there a locking mechanism that has to be released somewhere?

I imagine there must be some kind of electrical schematic somewhere, if someone could point me to that I'd appreciate it.

Thanks again for your help!

The fuel tank is underneath the rear seat cushion. You pull up the part you sit on. There might be handle you can grab somewhere. It hinges forward. There will be some carpet flaps that you lift up to find a cover with three screws. Here is the won't start troubleshooting thread: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=199398
You might still have some gelled fuel or a clogged fuel filter. I have seen B100 gel up solid and then not ever get back to clear conditions after warming up (still cloudy). Situation number 2 of the troubleshooting thread shows the top of the lift pump.

Edit: I see you are in Saint Louis. If you do need a lift pump, I would get your car over to Oilhammer's shop. Good luck.

Edit again: from the trusted mechanics list:
Car-Doc Automotive
2277 Administration Dr
Saint Louis, MO 63146
(314) 991-2277, Oilhammer
www.cardocautomotive.com

Thank you so much. That troubleshooting thread is excellent. Tomorrow morning I'll get started to see if I can figure it out.

I am glad there's a Trusted Mechanics list as I don't know any VW mechanics (I took this car to a VW dealer after I got it back to St. Louis because it was still under warranty.) Now that it's out of warranty, I'd like to use an independent who knows what they're doing. I take it Oilhammer is Car-Doc Automotive.

Sorry. I've clicked every link on this site, gone through the Forum Jump, and searched. But I can't find a trusted mechanics list. Would someone please point me?

Here ya go
Trusted TDI Mechanics - By State



Edit--green beat me to it

This is the guy you need to take your car if you not sure how to fix it:

oilhammer

Thanks for the pointers. Now that I see where the Trusted Mechanics list is, I can't believe the search wouldn't find it.

My usual assistant is not available today, so I felt limited to things I could do by myself. I easily got to the round cover under the back seats. VW did a great job designing how to pull up those back seats and transfer the headrests to them in order to drop the seat backs.

Because I had no one to turn the key for me, I decided to check the fuse in case it would be an easy fix. Well, that was an eye-opener. While I was very impressed at the convenient location of and access to the fuse box at the driver's end of the dashboard, the fuse card might as well have been in hieroglyphics. For some reason VW thinks people can interpret the meaning of little engines with lightning bolts and little documents with exclamation points in them. There are lots of those two icons on the fuse card. Because I didn't know what the mystery icons were and couldn't see anything that looked like a lift pump in the icons that actually looked like something, I checked all the fuses associated with the mystery icons hoping that I would find any easy fix. All the fuses I looked at were intact. Among the mystery fuses were 5, 7.5, 10, 25, and 30 amp circuits. I would sure like to find a way to interpret that fuse card before I blow a fuse on a dark and stormy night.

So my next step will be to arrange for an assistant so I can put my ear by the lift pump to see if I can hear it try to start. I don't have a voltmeter or know how to use one, but I think I can get local help with determining if there is power to the pump.

I do have two questions. If it is indeed the lift pump, do I need VW OEM or can I go to NAPA for this part? I ask because NAPA is close and VW is far. Also, should I buy a third party manual like a Haynes or Chilton so I can interpret these fuses, or is there another source? I did find one here http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6875&highlight=fuse by googling but don't really know if it's the correct one for my car.

Thanks again!

Thank you for your help!

I think the intank lift pump failed or the biodiesel clogged your fuel filter. Your description of the car cutting off was an exact duplicate of my description when the exact same thing happened to mine at 46,000 miles (same engine, a BEW code). The in-tank lift pump failed and the engine just cut off, no warning, coasted off the road, towed to VW and fixed under warranty.

Is this car still under warranty? (In '04 they had a 50,000 mile warranty). If so, DO NOT divulge that biodiel was used. It will void the warranty. The dealer may discover this anyway, so you may end up paying for this repair.

You can check to see if the lift pump works: Lift up the right rear seat bottom. turn the key to "ON", but do not engage the starter. If the pump is working, it will run for 2 seconds and turn off. You should hear the pump run with the seat up if the pump works (if the engine starts, the pump will continue to run). If the pump does not run, 90% chance it is bad and 10% chance it is an electrical problem.

If the pump runs, rreplace the fuel filter and try that.

Biodiesel is VERY bad for the 2004 on TDIs--Do not use it. It will ruin the injection system and gum up the oil and wreck the engine over time. It may have caused the early demise of the lift pump.

Here is where to get the pump:

http://idparts.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=29_115&products_id=585

This is a $500 - $800 dealer repair, but you could replace the pump yourself after reading the thread on this list about it.

You also need to be aware of the unique oil requirements of this engine (and hope the previous owner was aware of it too). You must use VW 505.01 specification oil or worn camshaft and lifters most likely will result. That's a VERY expensive repair, $2000 - $4000, depending on who fixes it and it is easy to do this job wrong!

Welcome to the list. Spend some time reading here up on these cars and asking questions and you will be well prepared to get the most out of these great cars.

--Nate

Just save your self a lot of time and trouble and call OILHAMMER @ CAR-DOC as stated in posts #4 and #9. He can get you up to speed on manuals, tools, etc. and get your car running quickly and most importantly, correctly.
Since you bought the car used, it needs to be seen by a GURU asap, anyway.

He really is THAT GOOD.....

BTW, nice car and welcome to the club!

Bill

I just read all of the posts. You should be able to hear the lift pump with the seat up and you sitting in the driver's seat. I can hear mine well that way. Sometimes you can hear it with the seat down.

The link I posted above is where you should get the pump. NAPA wont even stock it and I bet the VW dealer does not even stock it either (special order). Same pump as the dealer and about half the cost from IDparts.com. You will have it in three days, tops and I think they have a next day delivery choice. This same place has ALOT of other things you will need over time. Excellent vendor.

As for a service manual, a Haynes is marginal, but a good economical way to start, with the advice of this list. The best manual is from here:

http://www.robertbentley.com/vw/golf/1999-2006/VW-Golf-Jetta-GTI-Repair-Manual-1999-2005-A4-eBahn.html

I won't touch a Chiltons manual with a 10-foot pole!

Ask Oilhammer to show you his pictures of the internals of a TDI run on biodiesel. I think he is the one that posted them. NASTY!

--Nate

I can't hear the lift pump from the driver seat, but there have been a lot of rock concerts in my life. I want to confirm by having an sharp-eared assistant listen for it when I turn the key.

I will contact Oilhammer and get his thoughts. I can't tell from the web site for his shop which person he is, so I will use email and hope I don't get caught in his spam filter.

And I will also contact the VW dealer to see if I'm still under warranty although I believe they told me the warranty had ended when I took the car to them for regular maintenance after I got the car to St. Louis.

If I confirm that it's the lift pump, I will order it from the link you kindly provided.

As for the proper oil, I know it's in there now (I had a dealer oil change as part of the maintenance work I had done after I brought it to St. Louis) and the records I was able to find featured a lot of maintenance work at the dealer. So I am hoping it has a history of having the correct oil.

If you heard the lift pump, just change the fuel filter.
I wouldn't run B100 in my ALH when it gets cold, maybe B50 with Power Service additive.

PDJetta said:

Ask Oilhammer to show you his pictures of the internals of a TDI run on biodiesel. I think he is the one that posted them. NASTY!

--Nate

Click to expand...

You are mistaken here. The pics you are thinking of that OH posted are run on grease/WVO, not bio.

PDJetta said:

I think the intank lift pump failed or the biodiesel clogged your fuel filter. Your description of the car cutting off was an exact duplicate of my description when the exact same thing happened to mine at 46,000 miles (same engine, a BEW code). The in-tank lift pump failed and the engine just cut off, no warning, coasted off the road, towed to VW and fixed under warranty.

Is this car still under warranty? (In '04 they had a 50,000 mile warranty). If so, DO NOT divulge that biodiel was used. It will void the warranty. The dealer may discover this anyway, so you may end up paying for this repair.

Click to expand...

I agree with this. Biodiesel gels at a higher temp than regular diesel, so this could have happened even with temps in the 20s. When the car was first started, the hot excess fuel from the injectors was returned to the fuel filter, so that's why the car ran for several miles. Then the thermostatic T on top of the fuel filter opened up to return hot fuel to the fuel tank, and cold gelatinous fuel entered the fuel filter -- or it tried to. It was probably thick like molasses and did not flow at all.

It is possible, maybe likely, that the lift pump has now failed. They are a weak component in the fuel system, they have a tendency to fail early and often. And trying to pump thick gooey biodiesel is not good.

I concur with the suggestion to contact Oilhammer. Then, after this episode is over, use B20 or less until the weather warms up.

Edit: the initial warranty was 60k miles/5 years for the drive train. The lift pump is not part of the drive train, so only warranteed for 50k miles/4 years.

Although an assistant has yet to confirm it, I still can't hear the lift pump when I turn the key from the driver's seat. I have contacted Oilhammer and am awaiting his response. Even though it only has 41k miles on it, the dealer tells me the car is not under warranty as it was purchased in Sept. 05.

FYI I monitor my fuel thickness in cold weather by a sample in a glass jar kept outside. It was not as thick as molasses but it was definitely more viscous than ULSD. My biodiesel is made of canola, which gels later than other feedstocks. Although it's never been ASTM tested, I have passed the Paradigm Sensors conversion test and of course the 3:27. So I have always been able to drive my unmodified non-computerized vehicles down to 15*F without gelling.

One of the cold weather techniques I use with a W123 Mercedes is to keep a container of fuel with a double dose of Arctic Express in it by the radiator in the front hall. On cold days, I put in a few quarts of this 66*F fuel right before I start up as it assures a pool of warm fuel by the pick-up in the tank. I did this with the VW on the day in question. If it hadn't sat so long before I tried to return home I might have made it without ruining the lift pump.

Now that I have a better understanding of how this car's fuel system works, I may reserve the VW for when the temp is in the 30s and warmer and retain a Mercedes for when the temp is 15 to 30*F. Because I don't blend, when the weather is too cold to drive on B100 I use public transportation or stay home. In St. Louis, cold snaps usually last less than three days. The recent cold snap was unusual.

I finally arranged for a tow truck today to take the Golf to the shop for repair. Amazingly, the tow truck driver started the car on the second attempt. He had held the accelerator to the floor. Unbelievable, especially after all this time! I imagine that the lift pump pulled some air and then quit. The question is whether or not the lift pump is dead. I think it is, because I can't hear it when I start the car. If it is dead, that means the tandem pump is pulling enough fuel to start the car.

The shop is <6 miles city driving. Although it is not perfectly flat, near the end of the trip there is one long upward slope and at the very end a short upward hill. If the lift pump is dead, is it safe to drive it slowly to the shop on just the tandem pump? Or should I have it towed because that will that kill the tandem pump too?

Thank you for your help.

I don't think the car would have started if the lift pump was dead. It really sounds like the fuel gelled or partially gelled around the pump and it lifted some air into the line right before stalling.

If you call OilHammer at the shop he can advise you more clearly on whether to drive or tow it.

Amazingly, the tow truck driver started the car on the second attempt. He had held the accelerator to the floor. Unbelievable, especially after all this time! I imagine that the lift pump pulled some air and then quit.

Click to expand...

Just so you know holding the accelerator on the floor doesn't really do anything. Your car has a potentiometer that connects to the cars computer. There is no physical connection, it is all electrical. The computer detremines the amount of fuel to be injected. As Moosejaw suggested it was probably gelled fuel. Call Oilhammer, he won't steer you wrong.