1982 Vanagon Westfalia AHU build

jjordan11 said:

I also like the simplicity of going to an air to air setup, no additional water lines, no relay or water pump to have to worry about. I have no doubts that on a smaller vehicle like a caddy, it works great.

I got the tools ordered for final disassembly of the gearbox. It's been pretty warm here, difficult to make it out to the shop. When the tools come, I'll have to get motivated again.

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I also like the simplicity of air to air....the only pump you need is the turbo!! ....I just ordered my intercooler last night....gonna mount it first and figure out my piping ....I decided to go with a garrett PD170 turbo setup for a BRM...it's what I have on the shelf and is pretty easy to clock for the 50* vanagon setup, my buddy is running a stock BRM turbo that is also reclocked for the van 50* setup...just need to order up an actuator bracket from ryan.... please post pics of the trans disassembly ....I've always wanted to dig into one of those

Today, as we were trekking up the Alaskan Highway just out of Dawson Creek, BC, on some of the 10% grade hills, the IC temp would climb to more than 100f above ambient (90f). The EGT would briefly go up to about 1050f.... which I suspect would be normal for the circumstances....loaded and pulling a 1250 pound camper! But, there's no doubt I need more IC cooling ability!

Just cruising along on typical roads with the above load here is what I'm seeing:



In the pic below, you see a lower MPG and average MPG due to the terrain.. which is reflected in the Intake Air temp.

AndyBees said:

Today, as we were trekking up the Alaskan Highway just out of Dawson Creek, BC, on some of the 10% grade hills, the IC temp would climb to more than 100f above ambient (90f). The EGT would briefly go up to about 1050f.... which I suspect would be normal for the circumstances....loaded and pulling a 1250 pound camper! But, there's no doubt I need more IC cooling ability!

Click to expand...

OTOH - If you have enough power to pull the trailer on the hills and EGT is still safe at 1050*F, maybe the IAT is acceptable. Sure, there'd be more power and a lower EGT with better intercooling but if you don't need to go faster, maybe it doesn't matter?

Andy, those numbers look pretty good considering the circumstances.

I may have to recreate the pictures of the disassembly, i am getting worse in my older age with taking pictures as I go along.

I received the special tools in the mail from samstagsales.com, I'll have to keep them in mind if I need any more VW/Audi special tools. I'll take some pictures in a little bit (I need to get ready for work), the tools are genuine VW special tools that came in the correct packaging. I already put the jaws onto the bearing and pressed it out, the bearing didn't end up coming out the front like I thought it would, it pressed the input shaft out. I was able to remove the snap ring that was keeping the input shaft into the case.
I'll take some pictures of it's current state, and putting it back together.

VAG 1582 & 1582/2 put together for input shaft bearing removal

Bare case, ready for the machine shop. (After I clean it some more)

wow! that tool looks fancy and expensive! if you ever think about renting it i'd get full price deposit .... looks like it could be easily fub'd by misuse ....really looking forward to see how this trans swap goes ....did you decide to go with porsche cv's to avoid lowering the drivetrain?

I got the trans housing delivered to the machine shop, it will still be a while until I can put work into the Westy, I've been so busy lately. No time to work on my own projects.

Hi Jordan, any updates?

No real updates yet, I have been working on a different TDI project that is a bit funner for me. I got the transmission back from the machine shop and it's back together, I just need to get motivation for putting it back together. It's kind of difficult though with 4 kids, not enough seats to fit us all .

jjordan11 said:

No real updates yet, I have been working on a different TDI project that is a bit funner for me. I got the transmission back from the machine shop and it's back together, I just need to get motivation for putting it back together. It's kind of difficult though with 4 kids, not enough seats to fit us all .

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what kind of project ?

Yeah, give us a hint as to what kind of project you are into!

I was wondering if it would peak anybody's interest. My first TDI conversion was an old Audi 80 quattro, it was a really fun and fast car with the stock PD130 engine and a tune. It only had one problem, the brakes were too small and I would get going too fast too quickly and not be able to stop. I decided to abandon that project, but it left me with all the performance parts to build up a pretty wicked PD motor.
I also have a 2000 Passat that has a 1.8T engine that was getting pretty tired, a euro TDI gearbox for the said car, and the desire to convert it to a Diesel.
I'll probably start a thread here in the conversion section when I get a chance, I just finished it up and took it for a drive two days ago. It's a pretty fun car, I am keeping the tune pretty conservative for now to test all the components.
Basic list of performance goodies:
GTB2260 turbo
R783 nozzles
ported & polished big valve head with inconel valves
ARP 2000 head studs
3" stainless exhaust
Custom SBC clutch and flywheel (not sure how much tq it can hold, but was told more than any 1.9 has made )
upgraded TB tensioner

I was wondering if it would peak anybody's interest. My first TDI conversion was an old Audi 80 quattro, it was a really fun and fast car with the stock PD130 engine and a tune. It only had one problem, the brakes were too small and I would get going too fast too quickly and not be able to stop. I decided to abandon that project, but it left me with all the performance parts to build up a pretty wicked PD motor.
I also have a 2000 Passat that has a 1.8T engine that was getting pretty tired, a euro TDI gearbox for the said car, and the desire to convert it to a Diesel.
I'll probably start a thread here in the conversion section when I get a chance, I just finished it up and took it for a drive two days ago. It's a pretty fun car, I am keeping the tune pretty conservative for now to test all the components.
Basic list of performance goodies:
GTB2260 turbo
R783 nozzles
ported & polished big valve head with inconel valves
ARP 2000 head studs
3" stainless exhaust
Custom SBC clutch and flywheel (not sure how much tq it can hold, but was told more than any 1.9 has made )
upgraded TB tensioner

jjordan11 said:

I was wondering if it would peak anybody's interest. My first TDI conversion was an old Audi 80 quattro, it was a really fun and fast car with the stock PD130 engine and a tune. It only had one problem, the brakes were too small and I would get going too fast too quickly and not be able to stop. I decided to abandon that project, but it left me with all the performance parts to build up a pretty wicked PD motor.
I also have a 2000 Passat that has a 1.8T engine that was getting pretty tired, a euro TDI gearbox for the said car, and the desire to convert it to a Diesel.
I'll probably start a thread here in the conversion section when I get a chance, I just finished it up and took it for a drive two days ago. It's a pretty fun car, I am keeping the tune pretty conservative for now to test all the components.
Basic list of performance goodies:
GTB2260 turbo
R783 nozzles
ported & polished big valve head with inconel valves
ARP 2000 head studs
3" stainless exhaust
Custom SBC clutch and flywheel (not sure how much tq it can hold, but was told more than any 1.9 has made )
upgraded TB tensioner

Click to expand...

I've been driving my Audi 80 Quattro TDI for 2.5 years now because I was so completely inspired by your Audi project. I remember all the time and energy you put into that motor. It's great to hear you found a good home for it.

Yeah, the Audi was a lot of fun, but was going to be too expensive to upgrade all the peripheral parts to safely handle the torque. Here's a quick video of the Passat:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlKWY1fQnBM

Please excuse all the warning lights and flashing distractions . Once I'm finished with the Passat, the Westy is next in the queue to receive some attention.

Howdy Everyone!

I've been reading many conversion threads and have reread this one multiple times.

I've been slowly purchasing parts for my mTDI AHU conversion into my 82' diesel Westy and regearing the transmission is the last step.

The biggest hang-up is the DK tranny re-gearing. I hear people say 0.70 is too low and you don't want to go lower than 0.77, but after Jordan's 0.70 Westy I always come back to that number. It's hard to find other AHU Westy people to provide feed-back. I run on 215/60/16s and would probably go 65/70 in the height the next pair of tires. I weight my Westy hardcore when I camp; water tank full, solar, tons of pack, tons of gear.

I drive on average 60-70mph naturally anyways when I can usually at the 65mph mark. Being able to make 55-65mph on an incline is paradise compared to my 20-30mph with my current 1.6na. The primary objective is squeezing the best MPG while keeping at least 55mph on an incline.

I've read the sweet spot is 2800-3000, so does that mean anything below 2800 and power slips horribly and there's not enough umph to make that incline?

The setup will be:

AHU mTDI with a WestyVentures.com IP
Bosio PP520s
K14 turbo
SAAB c900 A2A IC and larger Oil Cooler

The gearing ratios I crunch up turn out to be the following below. Based on your existing experience and what I've mentioned so far, what sounds like the best bet? There's seeing the #'s and then there's feeling the numbers.

215/60/16

4.13 FD @ 0.70 - 2229 @ 60mph
4.14 FD @ 0.70 - 2234 @ 60mph
4.571 FD @ 0.70 - 2467 @ 60mph
4.13 FD @ 0.70 - 2414 @ 65mph
4.14 FD @ 0.70 - 2420 @ 65mph
4.571 FD @ 0.70 - 2672 @ 65mph
4.13 FD @ 0.70 - 2600 @ 70mph
4.14 FD @ 0.70 - 2606 @ 70mph
4.571 FD @ 0.70 - 2878 @ 70mph

4.13 FD @ 0.73 - 2324 @ 60mph
4.14 FD @ 0.73 - 2330 @ 60mph
4.571 FD @ 0.73 - 2572 @ 60mph
4.13 FD @ 0.73 - 2518 @ 65mph
4.14 FD @ 0.73 - 2524 @ 65mph
4.571 FD @ 0.73 - 2787 @ 65mph
4.13 FD @ 0.73 - 2712 @ 70mph
4.14 FD @ 0.73 - 2718 @ 70mph
4.571 FD @ 0.73 - 3001 @ 70mph

4.13 FD @ 0.75 - 2388 @ 60mph
4.14 FD @ 0.75 - 2394 @ 60mph
4.571 FD @ 0.75 - 2643 @ 60mph
4.13 FD @ 0.75 - 2587 @ 65mph
4.14 FD @ 0.75 - 2593 @ 65mph
4.571 FD @ 0.75 - 2863 @ 65mph
4.13 FD @ 0.75 - 2786 @ 70mph
4.14 FD @ 0.75 - 2793 @ 70mph
4.571 FD @ 0.75 - 3083 @ 70mph

4.13 FD @ 0.77 - 2451 @ 60mph
4.14 FD @ 0.77 - 2457 @ 60mph
4.571 FD @ 0.77 - 2713 @ 60mph
4.13 FD @ 0.77 - 2656 @ 65mph
4.14 FD @ 0.77 - 2662 @ 65mph
4.571 FD @ 0.77 - 2939 @ 65mph 11
4.13 FD @ 0.77 - 2860 @ 70mph
4.14 FD @ 0.77 - 2867 @ 70mph
4.571 FD @ 0.77 - 3166 @ 70mph

Look forward to the input!

If you've been researching and reading about conversions, I suspect you ran across my ALH install in an '84 tin-Top Vanagon.

I too used the DK tranny. I'm running 205/75/15 tires, a 1.14 3rd gear and a 0.77 4th gear.

At 3000 RPMs, the speed is slightly over 68 mph (or put another way, slightly under 69 mph).

If I were to change anything, I might go with the 0.75 4th gear. However, the .77 is just fine. In fact, for my purposes (daily driver and road trips pulling a popup camper), I like it as is.

Although I use Scan Gauge, I monitor a number of items with gauges mounted on and below the dash. The only concern I have are reducing Intercooler temp. Everything else is fine with me. The 32 to 36 mpg is awesome. The mild Stage 1 Malone Tune gives the engine all the spunk it needs to handle the Vanagon. It does not fade on hills...

Hello, I have a 4.14 ring and pinion with a .77 4th gear. On the flat it was fine, but add even a small incline and the stock engine did not have the power to pull the gear at highway speeds. If you do the math, my final ratio is similar to using a .70 on a 4.57 gear.

I upgraded the nozzles to sprint 520s and I now have the power to pull the gear. I am with Andy, maybe something in between the .70 and the .77 mark

Thanks for the input, I'm seriously thinking

4.571 FD @ 0.73 - 2787 @ 65mph

May be a good route. That seems within the 2600-2800rpm recommendations for a Vanagon, so I figure a loaded westy is probably in the middle.

I just want to make sure I can do 60-65mph comfortably, but not at so low of RPMs it is damaging to the engine when loaded down.

The 4.571 FD @ 0.73 - 2787 @ 65mph seems like a good middle ground. If I want to improve better on that I can raise the 16" to 65-70 or if I need more umph switch to 15".

I'm using 4.57 & .77 and 16" tires but my bus is a bus not a Vanagon Westy. That said, you can make fairly big % changes in gearing from a 14" wheel with a little tire to a 16" wheel with a large tire or vice-versa. Recheck that math with some more scenarios so you'll know what to expect..

rotaecho said:

Thanks for the input, I'm seriously thinking

4.571 FD @ 0.73 - 2787 @ 65mph

May be a good route. That seems within the 2600-2800rpm recommendations for a Vanagon, so I figure a loaded westy is probably in the middle.

I just want to make sure I can do 60-65mph comfortably, but not at so low of RPMs it is damaging to the engine when loaded down.

The 4.571 FD @ 0.73 - 2787 @ 65mph seems like a good middle ground. If I want to improve better on that I can raise the 16" to 65-70 or if I need more umph switch to 15".

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On certified scales, my Tin-top plain Jane '84 Vanagon weighs 3640 lbs with about a half tank of fuel and me in it (me, 155 lb). As I understand, the typical Westy weighs about 700 lbs more.

A significant thing to consider is what to do with 3rd gear. You don't want the RPMs to drop below peak torque of the TDI engine when you shift from 3rd to 4th gear, especially going up hill with a load on board.

So, an upgrade in 3rd gear should be considered as well. The "alternative" is to take the RPMs up into and beyond the mid-3000 range in the OE 3rd gear before shifting to 4th. Unless you have an excellent Motor Mount system in your conversion, the resonance at such high RPMs will be very annoying. Lastly, while doing the gear upgrades, the 3rd - 4th gear hub should be replaced as well. It is a known weak thingy... they do bust!

I replaced the OE 1.23 ratio 3rd gear with a 1.14.

Take some time and study the graph below. It is "very" reflective of the real world results of my transmission upgrade.

1st gear is the bottom line on the chart. As the engine RPMs increase so does the speed. Then, notice how much the RPMs drop when shifted to 2nd gear.............. and, so on with 3rd and 4th gears.






This chart shows most, if not all, OE gear ratios in Vanagons sold in North America








I have a graph set-up in Excel that will allow you to enter various ratios, RPMs and tire size to see the results in MPH in all gears. Send me your e-mail address and I'll shoot you a copy! It's fairly representative of he real world..... It compares with GPS very, very close with my Vanagon conversion.

Jon Jordan, we do apologize for hi-jacking your Thread ....

Andy,

I assume you looked at possibly using the 5 speed transmission? At first glance, it might offer more flexibility. Extra cost could be an issue. Granny 1st with a longer 5th could permit a longer final drive?

john.jackson9213 said:

Andy,

I assume you looked at possibly using the 5 speed transmission? At first glance, it might offer more flexibility. Extra cost could be an issue. Granny 1st with a longer 5th could permit a longer final drive?

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Actually, I've had a couple of opportunities to buy a five speed transmission and two different Vans with 5-speeds. I do wish I had purchased the last 5-speed Van ..... It was in Craigslist and close by. I found it about 2:00 am and then forgot about. Nice Van for $3200.00 which sold three weeks after I found it (ouch).

Okay, the top gear in a 5-speed and the 4-speed can/will always be the same ratio. 2nd thru 5th in the 5-speed have the gears in the same location (spots on the shafts) as 1st thru 4th in the 4-speed. However, the good part is that the ratios are better spaced in the 5-speed from 2nd (which is 1st in the 4-speed) thru 5th (which 4th in the 4-speed). Yes, confusing, but that's how it is.

Weddle does make a 5-speed kit for the Post 1983.5 model Vanagons . It is about $1,600.00. The kit provides a 4.57 R&P and whatever else is required to make it work. The catch is, you have to use your .85 4th gear for the 5th gear. So, to really upgrade, you'll have to shell-out the extra cash for the taller 5th gear and maybe 4th as well. I have it all in a file on another computer. .......... The grand total would exceed $2,000.00 if you do the work yourself (I can do it.)

So, in summary, with my 4.57 R&P, I can have the same top gear as any Vanagon 5-speed or conversion. But, I would not go beyond the .75 ratio.

Now, I'd rather stay all VW than do a Subargears 5-speed which is over $4,000.00 and the source is located in Australia.

http://www.subarugears.com/About/About.html

AndyBees said:

Jon Jordan, we do apologize for hi-jacking your Thread ....

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Haha, when I saw this thread back up on the front page of the conversion section, I started thinking of excuses as to why I haven't worked on it for a LONG time . Since I don't have to justify my lack of "Westy work", I'll chime in on the gear ratios I had:
4.57 final drive with .70 4th gear, drove great, I never had a situation that I had to downshift to third gear, but I had a little too much power/torque going through the transmission. It would pull really nice even at 45 mph going up hills in Yellowstone National Park. I don't think the transmission was ruined by the power, but by my failure to assemble it correctly.
As for the engine, according to the monitors I had in place, it wasn't stressed at those levels and could have continued to give service for a long while.
If I were to de-tune the engine, I would definitely go with the .75 or .77 ratio.
Jon

Jon-

Willing to rent the VAG 1582 and 1582/2 tools? Looks like they are combined about $200+ to buy . .

I have a passat tdi 5 speed here that I want to trim/flip for use in my bay window. DUK with a final drive of 3.556 and a 5th gear of 0.686 - way taller than anything discussed here and I'm definitely concerned about that. 2250 at 70mph. I'm planning on using a PD100 (BEW), and the torque curves certainly are different than an ALH, but not that different . . .

Crunching the numbers, it should take about 40hp to keep a bay moving through the air at 70mph, call it 50hp with driveline, etc, losses. Stock tune PD100 - 190ft-lbs @ 2250, 250 with a mild tune. With a total reduction of 2.44 from the flywheel to the wheels, and a wheel RPM of 922 @ 70mph, horsepower available at the wheels can be calculated (81 stock, 107 mild tune). Seems like there should be plenty of power available for maintaining speed at the very least.

But actually testing trumps hand calcs. Think I am still going to try it, worst case I have a four speed for a bit while I am modifying a passat gasser tranny.

Let me know if you are willing to rent those tools.

-Chris

Also curious about the best resource for Passat tranny tear down - Bentley? Any good online documentation?

Thanks,

Chris

Send me a PM and we can discuss it.

PM sent

So, Jon, how's the conversion project doing?