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CrazyQuantumMan said:

I just now stumbled upon the Insight thread. I'm guessing by the look of things the engine did not make it to the crusher.

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Repermitted by EPA?

TurbinePower said:

Repermitted by EPA?

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That is what we call a gray area in the law.

Technically the whole vehicle must be destroyed, (Vehicle being the body and drivetrain) now who's to say that that engine wasn't in the lupo, and nobody checked? Where did that 1.2 engine come from? Nobody knows!

Importing engines and other iffy stuff is a crap shoot, you document best you can, follow the rules to the letter, fill out all the paperwork in a manner that isn't lying but yet won't raise suspicion, and have a damned good customs attorney on your fab 5 in case there is an issue.

I've been through plenty of the pitfalls as well.

-BB

Mr. Dewitt, why would you ship a motor through DHL? That is where your high prices are. So, what your telling me is that I am basically making all of this up.

I don't doubt a person attempting to import a single engine on their own would more than likely end up getting it seized. If I were importing a motor through a known shipper they are required to complete all of the declarations, not me.

Here is an excerpt from the Clean Air Act

The production, sale and importation of vehicle parts (engines, transmissions, chassis, vehicle bodies, etc.) are not regulated by EPA because parts are not considered motor vehicles under the Clean Air Act. However if the parts constitute a disassembled vehicle or an approximate disassembled vehicle, the combination is considered a motor vehicle under the Clean Air Act. Any attempt to use this policy to circumvent the Clean Air Act or the Imports regulations will be considered a violation of the Clean Air Act and will be strictly enforced. An example of such circumvention is:

• A kit car maker who also provides the engine and transmission before or after production/importation of the body/chassis.

I do remember that for importing the Japanese engine for the Ford Probe was that it was declared a kit. I spoke with my friend that restores cars, (also less that 25years old) he stated that sometimes the person receiving the imported parts, car whatever must sign an affidavit attesting that the parts will be brought up to EPA Emissions requirements through mandatory modifications and the vehicle MUST be towed away from the port, not driven. Whether those required modifications were made is another story. Argue all you want, there is a loophole for everything, that is why I am going to law school.

Edited to add this: There can be issues with importing a car in pieces and listed as a kit when it comes to titling which requires an inspection in some places. The motor in the car would be of no consequence.

How many people on this forum would this apply to??

The federal tampering prohibition is contained in section 203(a)(3) of the Clean Air Act (Act), 42
U.S.C. 7522(a)(3). Section 203(a)(3)(A) of the Act prohibits any person from removing or rendering
inoperative any emission control device or element of design installed on or in a motor vehicle or motor
vehicle engine prior to its sale and delivery to an ultimate purchaser and prohibits any person from
knowingly removing or rendering inoperative any such device or element of design after such sale and
delivery, and the causing thereof. The maximum civil penalty for a violation of this section by a
manufacturer or dealer is $25,000; for any other person, $2,500. Section 203(a)(3)(B) of the Act
prohibits any person from manufacturing or selling, or offering to sell, or installing, any part or
component intended for use with, or as part of, any motor vehicle or motor vehicle engine where a
principal effect of the part or component is to bypass, defeat, or render inoperative any device or
element of design installed on or in a motor vehicle or motor vehicle engine, and where the person
knows or should know that such part or component is being offered for sale or is being installed for
such use. The maximum civil penalty for a violation of this section is $2,500.

dobeonguard said:

How many people on this forum would this apply to??

The federal tampering prohibition is contained in section 203(a)(3) of the Clean Air Act (Act), 42
U.S.C. 7522(a)(3). Section 203(a)(3)(A) of the Act prohibits any person from removing or rendering
inoperative any emission control device or element of design installed on or in a motor vehicle or motor
vehicle engine prior to its sale and delivery to an ultimate purchaser and prohibits any person from
knowingly removing or rendering inoperative any such device or element of design after such sale and
delivery, and the causing thereof. The maximum civil penalty for a violation of this section by a
manufacturer or dealer is $25,000; for any other person, $2,500. Section 203(a)(3)(B) of the Act
prohibits any person from manufacturing or selling, or offering to sell, or installing, any part or
component intended for use with, or as part of, any motor vehicle or motor vehicle engine where a
principal effect of the part or component is to bypass, defeat, or render inoperative any device or
element of design installed on or in a motor vehicle or motor vehicle engine, and where the person
knows or should know that such part or component is being offered for sale or is being installed for
such use. The maximum civil penalty for a violation of this section is $2,500.

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"All parts are considered to be for off-road use only"

I don't know about you guys, but I do a lot of off-roading

The EGR delete really helps me pull those extra few feet at the tractor pull...

Just get an accident mk4 for 1500$ in the US and sell what you don't need and keep what you need. It will save you a lot.

But the Lupo motor is so much cooler!! I suspect that in the end is what the OP REALLY wants...though regular tdi engines are a bit pricey(except in Canada). Lets face it, this is why folks usually buy the ARL's, BKD's and so on...its the cool factor. One can make tremendous power with the engines we have here(if one has the talent or monies), but the cool factor of an engine or transmission not offered in this country is what drives us. Sometimes a World engine is necessary for the project...for instance a street engine with a reliable 400 whp. In this case...one MUST have displacement as an ally. But in most other cases...its just really cool!

mrchill said:

But the Lupo motor is so much cooler!! I suspect that in the end is what the OP REALLY wants...though regular tdi engines are a bit pricey(except in Canada). Lets face it, this is why folks usually buy the ARL's, BKD's and so on...its the cool factor. One can make tremendous power with the engines we have here(if one has the talent or monies), but the cool factor of an engine or transmission not offered in this country is what drives us. Sometimes a World engine is necessary for the project...for instance a street engine with a reliable 400 whp. In this case...one MUST have displacement as an ally. But in most other cases...its just really cool!

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At the time, the ARL was actually cheaper than buying a US spec engine of similar mileage. So, for me, that was a huge contributor as well. I admit the cool factor did play into it though.

And my world engine just happened to be attached to a cool transmission. (the tranny did it for me as the seller would not split).

I just found this thread. I have a BKD in my garage, and Chill has an ATD PD100 sitting at his shop. How did those get here? I really have no idea, I bought mine from a local supplier.

I want a 1.2 or .1.4 liter Lupo engine for an upcoming project. Reading this I wonder if I'd be better off importing a wreck under the EPA exemption, taking what I want (drivetrain, ECU, cluster, pedals, but also seats) and junking the rest. The additional expense would be in shipping a complete car here, but having my choice of pieces would be helpful.

Now I'm thinking I want a complete, not damaged 1.4L 6 speed Lupo. I think there are many, many parts of this car I could use. I could either crush it or keep it for competitive use when I'm done.

Tips for importing an engine

CrazyQuantumMan said:

I am just a hard-headed bastard. This whole customs form issue is not an opinion, it's plain english. I spent hours researching customs law pertaining to importation of vehicle parts and it all leads back to their form quoted above. EPA plainly states one thing while "in the know" states the complete opposite. I interpret codes and laws for a living so I feel I am up to the task of reading a form. If I have any stories to tell after importing I will certainly let all of you know. I've talked with several other individuals and they have given me stories that are no different that buying shoes from overseas. I feel justified in my argumentativeness. I will contact the Customs office of my choice before I begin the shipping progress. One more time for posterity, EPA only regulates WHOLE VEHICLES, not components. I did not make this up, it's on their website here http://www.epa.gov/oms/imports/impflow.htm Notice they even put in bold letters "THESE VEHICLES MAY BE IMPORTED BY ANYONE WITHOUT EPA APPROVAL OR BOND." Am I missing something or is EPA lying to us? So as far as this is concerned, yes, I am looking for a yes-man to confirm this. I am mostly interested in shipping costs and what courier people have used in the past. The paperwork side is all peanuts if you simply fill the form out properly. I intend to go to the UK and physically get the engine myself, thereby insuring I get everything I need. The prices charged for these engines state-side is absolutely ridiculous. Quality German Auto charges $2850 for an older TDI! ***?



My name is Thomas and I am the owner of Quality German Auto Parts. I normally stay out of discussions like this but your aditude got my attention when you called my business on saturday. The price I gave you was for a 1.9 TD ( AAZ) not TDI. I only have one engine here (out of 40 AAZ engines ) that will fit your car and they are hard to find. The ones you are talking about will not work for you without a lot of modification. But I am sure that you know that already . I came here from Germany in 1985 and import Vehicles and parts since than. I do not know everything about diesel engines and importing but I can give you some pointers. It use to be a lot easier but not anymore. Let’s start with the freight. You pay around $ 150 per cubic meter for the Ocean freight. Transporting to the harbor, loading, unloading, shipping from the harbor to you is extra. Most custom brokers charge around $ 150 per entry. You do not need your own custom bond but use the one from the broker. I ship single engines all over the world and have a good idea what it cost. $ 750 should cover the shipping and importing. The freight to you from the harbor is extra.
First thing you have to make sure is your compliance with “Security Filing "10+2". Please Google it and follow it to the letter. This is a new pita (i am sure you know what that means ) rule that started this year. They (homeland security) want to know who the seller is, the shipper and the receiver are. It is a lot better if it is a known shipper. They have to have the info before you can start loading. It is possible to export something without the European 7 digit customs and 11 digit tax number but that is a sure way to trigger a custom examination on arrival.
When you buy the crate make sure it is made of plastic, plywood or wood with the “HT” stamp and that their HT number is current for the USA. Even a small piece of 2x4 that you use to brace the engine has to have the stamp.


This whole customs form issue is not an opinion, its plain English
NO IT IS NOT. It should be in a perfect world but we are dealing with the government here. I know of several people that had no problem importing parts or an engine but I know an equal number of people that lost the shipment. I am bringing in a BMW diesel drivetrain for a customer right now that had the first engine confiscated and had to pay to get it destroyed. It will depend on the custom office location and the mood of the inspector. I am not kidding. Also the traffic at the harbor is way down and they got to look busy and find stuff to do to justify the same amount of officers.
Now we come to your “ *** “ comment about my pricing. There are two ways to buy engines in EUROPE. You can just buy an engine of the shelf and take the guys word for it that it runs. I do buy some engine that way but I sell them to a company here (50 at a time) a lot cheaper than my regular engines. They do go thru the engines and freshen them up or part them out.Most of the time I buy the complete car in Germany (with less than 80000 miles) test drive it (or somebody that I trust but not the seller) and than pay somebody to take it in part. You can go on Mobile .de and check out over a million cars they listed. I did a search for all VW cars with 1Z/ AHU engines and less than 80000 miles ( 125000 KM) this morning in all of Europe and only found 11 cars under 2000 Euro ( 1 Euro= $1.46 ). The cheapest one is 1450 euro. That is $ 2130. Now I have to send somebody there to pick the car up and drive it to a place where I can take it in part. He wants to make money. Most of this type of cars comes with an immobilizer that needs to be removed (150 euro). Than I have to fly over there and pay to take it in part. Now I have to pay for the shipping to the US. It is cheaper in a container but still has to be paid. I also have my own Sprinter truck (sorry no LT from VW since they only came with the 150 HP engine and I wanted the 180 HP) over there with trailer that need to be paid. I have to pay for importing, advertising and Credit Card fees. And don't verged the occasional warranty claim. I also have to wait a long time before most of the stuff is sold to get my money back. You do the math. These prices are for Germany but I did load some containers in England and the cost of a low miles car over there is almost the same.
Yes I do have a 1.2 TDI Lupo half clip coming in. But this is from a low mileage running car and I want to make a profit. So it is not for you. But I am sure YOU can find one cheaper yourself.
I wish you the best of luck with your importing and hope that I answered some of your questions.
Thomas


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If you are still interested in a 1.9 I have a 99 ALH still in the car and running perfect with 130K miles and 13K on a 100K timing belt (I did the timing belt job). For the right price I could have it out of the car and delivered to you in Portland by the middle of October.

Excellent info VWdieselking! Nice to know some straight up facts.

dobeonguard said:

Mr. Dewitt, why would you ship a motor through DHL? That is where your high prices are. So, what your telling me is that I am basically making all of this up.

I don't doubt a person attempting to import a single engine on their own would more than likely end up getting it seized. If I were importing a motor through a known shipper they are required to complete all of the declarations, not me.

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DHL is actually very competitive in my market for the volume of shipments I do. Before I move freight I get a dozen quotes and move with the least expensive shipper.

BTW when you ship something through a shipper, you are the importer of record and as the importer you are responsible for the shipment, not the logistics company and not the customs broker. If you are a "Known Shipper" it helps. However if there are any customs issues, it's the importer of record that goes to jail or pays the fine. Customs Brokers are responsible for the correct forms, and declarations that needs to be filled out with the correct Harmonized codes. If the broker screws up it's you that has to deal with their mess.

There are 2 types of bonds, a continuous entry bond which is good for a year and costs several hundred dollars and there is a single entry bond that costs about $75.00. A bond is required for an entry and this adds to the cost.

Maybe I was just lucky....and maybe the law has changed since....but a few years ago I imported a 2LT Toyota diesel engine swap to the US from the east coast of Australia....no EPA no BS no anything...I had to pay some duties at the customs office in wilmington NC ....but aside from calling around to over a half a dozen "breakers" and "spares" dealers to find someone willing to put together a swap it was hassle free or as the blokes down under said "no worries mate"

Best Import thread EVER. Thank you to the importers that have added to the thread. Hopefully this will increase your sales in the future

Yikes....looks like I was just lucky!!!....sometimes ignorance is bliss....ohh well good luck with all the red tape....

In my experience the 1.2L is not a reliable beast to work with. I would highly recommend a 1.4L instead.

Thankfully the 1.4 is a lot easier to get too.

Since things are a bit quieter now than they were earlier the only thing I'd add is make sure you have an amazing broker. By far the "easiest" way to get things like this in is if you have an established relationship with a broker and a customs officer. Then, as long as all your paperwork is in order, your packaging is compliant, and logistics sorted it works out.

To give you an idea, those that do this can agree to the amount of financial involvement in getting in containers: I just paid $600 to ship a container from Europe with 1.4L engines in it along with lights and 6-speed transmissions. It then cost me $700 to enter the port of NY and the port to process the paperwork, $375 in customs, $1500 in duty, and ~$500 in holding fees while they sorted things out, (this time there were delays, sometimes that happens) and then an additional $3250 to get to my door from the port. If you're doing just one engine it's probably cheaper to air freight it in. That costs ~$1k....plus customs and the like.

At least for me it's barely worth it to bring in containers. Yeah, you save a few bucks on some parts and get in some rare, hard to find parts for people, but often the expense is so great that the payback is hardly worth the huge amount of time it takes to get it here! That said I still plan on occasionally bringing them over (I have 8 ALH completes coming soon along with a PD130 front clip) and will gladly help where I can.

Cheers,
-BB

Edit for accidentally combining part of the port fees and entrance fees. Rounded some of the numbers above, but total cost was almost exactly $6890 for this container when it was all said and done....

Mr. Dewitt, I know the person who will be picking up the import is listed on the BOL, I meant that the facilitator doing the transport is filing all of the customs declarations to get the motor or what not on the boat. Ultimately it is their a$$ if they are transporting illicit items.

I do have another idea, a connection through a local Romanian church gave us a contact so we can send and receive large shipments to and from Romania. Freight is $1.40 a pound, no questions asked. Transit time is 4-5 weeks. I think we could get some motors from there too, along with a shipment of old Rom AK's and RPG's. joking...... I do know the flow of ţuică, Romanian liquor is unimpeded.

thats car is so lovely... there are loads of pd150 for sale no a days over here

It blows my mind how far people will go out of their way to tell people they are wrong without providing a reasonable explanation why. It's really quite sad how pompous some of the "experts" in this forum are. We have the best people and the worst people here.

I am looking to import or build a 170hp 2.0L TDI for install in a boat. My client wants to start with the 125kw version rather than the 103kw version so that an ECU flash will bring the total hp to around the 200 mark. I am working with them to build a custom dive tender for their excursions in Thailand. I have sourced many engines in the UK as the 170hp version is quite common. These cannot be located here in the US as they have never been made available as an option. If it is impossible to get a complete used engine from the UK, I can secure a donor 2.0L block and build it up using the head, turbo, injectors etc. from the 170hp unit. If there is anyone out there still reading this thread and they have some valuable input, it would be greatly appreciated.

You could import the entire engine but it will be more costly and timely to do so not to mention much more of a hassle to deal with. You would save time and money going with a locally sourced 2.0L block then building it up with UK sourced 170hp parts. It is not a problem to import parts into the US but it is a much different story to try to import an entire engine complete.

dutchautoparts.com

I have heard very good things about Franz and I have spoken with him several times. I think he would absolutely be able to get you whatever you need whether it be an engine or parts.

Is Franz still in the business or should I contact another broker?
Any recommendation is welcome. I've only worked with W2C thus far.

Go with Franz, there's a very good history with many people on this forum.