Baffled & Bewildered - need some help - '04 BEW

'04 with BEW. New to me last year. Coming home on Monday a car pulled in front of me coming up a 7% grade to pass a slower vehicle. I braked, downshifted, let out the clutch and the car stalled. Coasted to side of road and couldn't get it to fire so called AAA for a tow home. Thought timing belt might have jumped a tooth or two, so I ordered tools to check timing. Today I checked timing, and all appears to be good. With crank lock in the pin slides into the hole in the block. Have pulled fuel line from tank and pump is sending fuel to filter with power on. Noted that adjustment holes on cam appear to be near limit to the left, but the pin slides into the hole all the way. TB looks beautiful by the way, no missing teeth, no visible cracks.

Engine started here at the house and ran for 2-3 seconds before quitting when I had the hose from the hardline to the intake off.

Bumfuzzled and need some fresh ideas on what the problem could be. Anyone have an idea to offer?

Any codes? Did you check if there is a fuel delivery problem? Bad lift pump in the tank or old fuel filter possibly?

Only codes are for glow plugs and coolant temp being low. Granted, I only ha e a basic code reader, but nothing about fuel pressure in the codes. I checked the lift pump already, and it pumped fuel into a bottle wben I turned the key on, so I'm pretty sure that is not the issue.

Tool kit came with 2 crank locks. One with arrow just to the left of the knob and one with the arrow 2 or 3 teeth to the right of the knob. I use the first one for the BEW fom everything I've read, but is it at all possible that I should be using the second one to verify the timing?

If no, if I loosen the three bolts on the cam sprocket and turn the sprocket counter clockwise to center the adjustment slots am I advancing or retarding the fuel timing?

Does the start sequence advance the fuel timing initially and could that be the reason it started and ran for a couple seconds before dying?

Is it possible those 3 bolts on the cam sprocket are loose and allowed the sprocket to shift all the way in one direction? If not don't move them till you get it sorted out and started. A dead tandem pump would cause a no start. That's the pump on the end of the block by the valve cover.

When was the fuel filter changed last?

The low coolant temp code means your thermostat needs replacement. The glow plug code could be a glow plug or maybe your harness just needs to be cleaned up.

If the pin goes into the cam sprocket while the crank lock is on, timing is mechanically correct regardless of where the sprocket window is. I am not too sure about which crank lock to use, as I have the one from Metalnerd designed for BEW engines. Another option would be to check cam crank correlation ("torsion value") with VCDS, which calculates it to within 1/2 degree from the cam&crank sensors. This would require the engine actually be running.

When you say the engine runs for 2-3 seconds, is that repeatable? Or is it a complete no start now?

Repeatable in that I've started it twice where it ran for a couple seconds, but it doesn't always start and run for a couple seconds, so perhaps intermittent is better description.

Turbo exploded and is blocking the intake or exhaust?

Oh man, I hadn't considered that. I didn't see any oil around the turbo when I crawled underneath the car, but I guess I should pull a hose off and try to get a look. Thanks for the suggestion, but I really hope it's a bad one.

Tdijarhead said:

Is it possible those 3 bolts on the cam sprocket are loose and allowed the sprocket to shift all the way in one direction? If not don't move them till you get it sorted out and started. A dead tandem pump would cause a no start. That's the pump on the end of the block by the valve cover.

When was the fuel filter changed last?

The low coolant temp code means your thermostat needs replacement. The glow plug code could be a glow plug or maybe your harness just needs to be cleaned up.

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I wondered the same about the sprocket shifting and thought maybe I should center them and see if it starts.
I should be able to test the tandem pump by sticking the supply line into a jar of fuel, will do that after getting eyes on the turbo to see if it exploded. That would also let me know if the fuel filter is clogged. Wish I still had my ALH and could just crack an injector to verify the pump.

Is it worthwhile at this point to pull the valve cover? Is there anything to look for if I do?

gatz said:

If the pin goes into the cam sprocket while the crank lock is on, timing is mechanically correct regardless of where the sprocket window is. I am not too sure about which crank lock to use, as I have the one from Metalnerd designed for BEW engines. Another option would be to check cam crank correlation ("torsion value") with VCDS, which calculates it to within 1/2 degree from the cam&crank sensors. This would require the engine actually be running.

When you say the engine runs for 2-3 seconds, is that repeatable? Or is it a complete no start now?

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Meant to ask if you'd look at your crank lock and tell me where the arrow is, just to the left or a couple of teeth to the right. That should confirm which lock I need to use.

I believe the pointer should be to the left of the hole as mentioned here, and in the factory repair manual: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bhCRr-H2yw

The tool I have looks like this so its completly different: https://www.dieselgeek.com/PD_Tool_Kit_for_BHW_and_BEW_engine_p/mn-bewbhw.htm

My gut says you are barking up the wrong tree worrying about jumped timing, but its worth checking with the tool. Rotating the sprocket on the other hand will do nothing if its already in time. And keep in mind, rotating the sprocket requires taking the belt loose and redoing timing from scratch. If you do so, you need to replace the tensioner, as they are prone to failure if you undo & retension them (search on here theres a few threads in which oilhammer has had timing belts fail after adjustment.)

Regarding retensioning: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=342817&page=2

turbocharged798 said:

Turbo exploded and is blocking the intake or exhaust?

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Ding ding ding . . . we have a winner! If I knew how to upload a photo I'd share so you could commiserate with me.

I greatly appreciate the time all of you took to help me diagnose what was wrong. The hunt for a replacement begins . . .

If anyone has a used unit for sale, or know of someone who does, I'd appreciate it immensely.

Make sure you clean all the shrapnel out of the charge air pipes, intercooler AND turbo inlet pipe + airbox.

I wouldn't have thought it possible for shrapnel to make it beyond the intercooler inlet. How would one go about cleaning out the intercooler? Getting it out of the vehicle isn't an issue, but what would you run through it to make sure you removed any and all of the shrapnel?

turbocharged798 said:

Turbo exploded and is blocking the intake or exhaust?

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I'm late to this show but this where I was going to go with this no start. The key for me was that it ran for a few seconds then died. Enough air gets into the intake tract to allow it to start, then it runs out of air and dies.

Good job on the suggestion.

PrintSmith said:

I wouldn't have thought it possible for shrapnel to make it beyond the intercooler inlet. How would one go about cleaning out the intercooler? Getting it out of the vehicle isn't an issue, but what would you run through it to make sure you removed any and all of the shrapnel?

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Tiny bits of the impeller will travel with the intake air to the IC and maybe beyond.
The only way to clean it out is to remove all the hoses and the IC and wash them.
Then blow it out with compressed air.

A similar thing happened to me a year ago was going up a hill then all of a sudden I lost power and out the rear view mirror a giant plum of white smoke. shut the car down and checked the oil level and it wasn't even on the dip stick, topped it up started then shut it down t check the oil level and again it was off the dip stick, got it towed home pulled the turbo hoses off only to find it was destroyed. the people at A&A Rodriguez corp helped my out with the parts and now I'm back up a running with no issues and more power then before. just to note if you replace the turbo order a replacement flexable oil feed hose definatly worth it.

I have a used turbo that I removed from my 2004 Golf when I upgraded to a VNT-17.

It was still working when I removed it, but it does have what seems like about 1mm of axial play in the shaft. I couldn't say if it would last a day, or for many years. I know I will never use it because my car is set up for the VNT-17 now.

If I could make $50 off it, I'd sell it, but unfortunately shipping from Canada would probably be another $65 due to the weight. That would still make it cheap for a working turbo, but since it's a lot of work to change it, I recommend a new one.

Anyway, if you have any trouble finding something, or you want to take a risk, mine is available.

OK - pulled the KP39 out and after a bit of a struggle with that monster snap ring holding it together I managed to separate it and remove the cartridge and the mangled compressor vanes. I have yet to figure out how to get the pins that actuate the variable vanes out to clean any soot off. Suggestions/tricks/step-by-step instructions that someone with the IQ of a fence post could follow greatly appreciated.

The housing is actually in pretty good shape. I think I can use some emery cloth on it and be OK, so I'm looking for a cartridge to drop in and put the old boy back together. Is there a well known reason why I shouldn't travel that road that I am unaware of? If so, please let me know so I don't have to do this twice.

So far I only have to replace two additional parts, rounded out one harmonic balancer bolt and put a twist in the oil feed line, which is fantastic compared to the normal path of destruction I leave in my wake. That success is entirely due to all of you, and for that my wallet and I are greatly appreciative.

Why not just replace the turbo as a unit. I doubt you will save money reusing the housing.
And don't feel bad about twisting the oil line. That's what happens 90% of the time.

The cartridge from Rock Auto, made and assembled in Canada, goes for about $225, a replacement is north of $600 from Rock Auto and over $800 from Kerma. If I go used, I might get lucky, but I might not.

Bearings all look good, shaft wasn't scored, dis colored from heat or anything like that. Best I can figure, the compressor wheel just split in two. I've read that the KP39 is prone to over boost at altitude causing just that kind of failure, so there really isn't any damage to speak of in the housing that I can justify spending $400 to replace it. Unless, of course, the combined experience here is that replacing the cartridge doesn't last very long before the turbo fails again.

Fleabay sells cassettes, compressor wheels are available separately, and rebuilding this turbo is stoopid easy other than the typical awesome snap ring. Kits are cheap.

My observation (4 cassettes) is that this turbo is slightly unusual in that the bearings are slip on the OD. This means that the bearing surface play is doubled when dry, but the friction is split between two surfaces. This makes the turbo seem sloppier than it really is.

I would NOT consider slapping in used if you are swift enough to get the compressor housing off and on without destruction. It's just too danged easy (and very cheap) to rebuild the thing.

Personally I wouldn't sweat the vanes if they are free. Get it hot and all the carbon goes bye bye. And they vanes move pretty much every time you step on the gas.

Check to see what Dutch Auto (see classifieds section) has. They will sell new, reconditioned (and done right) or used and inspected. Pricing, including shipping, is usually lower than most anything you're going to find elsewhere.

Thanks for the lead . . . headed there now.

x2 for DAP. I got a good used ALH longblock from Frans. It's still purring along!