Further proof that VWoA flat out lied to me in saying that the 2012 models have the revised design then...
Hard Start / No Start - Is your intercooler frozen? Check Here!
- Thread starter GraniteRooster
- Start date
Further proof that VWoA flat out lied to me in saying that the 2012 models have the revised design then...
740GLE
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- 2015 Passat SEL, 2017 Alltrack SE; BB 2010 Sedan Man; 2012 Passat,
It might be a software reprogram to deal with the system, but anything less than a LPEGR delete won't 100% solve the issue.
Heck even their "$1000 parts fix" hasn't fixed it for some people. I'm just a lucky one where it did fix it.
Heck even their "$1000 parts fix" hasn't fixed it for some people. I'm just a lucky one where it did fix it.
flyboy320
Veteran Member
What were the conditions that were causing this again? Does it have to be below 32f outside air temperature? Damp outside or raining/snowing?
Showed up at dealer before 8am today & was treated respectfully, even got apology. It was a power steering hose rubbing on the left hand (passenger) side rad fan. Fixed in a minute & on my way. Keeping my fingers crossed...
I recall that it (hydrolock) happened to me after about 800km trip around freezing temp but not really cold.
It was not raining or humid. I recall that I was close to going off warranty so probably water had accumulated since previous service over longer period of time.
I had an incident of very difficult starting in Toronto a year earlier (car was very new) where car was parked at airport for 2 weeks & was very wet & humid on return. It was not "hydrolocked" that time but probably swallowed a good size gob of water & oil making it very difficult to start. I was amazed at how much cranking power the battery had. Of course, my method was to repeatedly crank & wait guessing that starter motor does not like prolonged, continuous cranking.
When hydrolocked, I finally got it to turn over engine by repeated crank & wait episodes till the engine started turning over again.
flyboy320
Veteran Member
Thanks Loafing...
Ok I'm about to purchase a 2012 Golf TDI, will i have this problem with the intercooler? I'm about to say no to the purchase. Liked the car, not this issue though. My dealer said some 2012 were already upgraded with kit from the factory. NOt sure that is true.
/Al
/Al
VW Petrolero
Veteran Member
Is not true 2012 still has the problem of Icing Intercooler.
740GLE
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- 2015 Passat SEL, 2017 Alltrack SE; BB 2010 Sedan Man; 2012 Passat,
But remember just like HPFP failures there are quite a few TDI's out there in the same area that have never seen an issue with IC icing.
The situation needs to be near perfect for it to happen and not everyone will see it, thats why VW hasn't made the IC kit an mid production parts change across the model line.
Work with the dealer and explain to them if you ever think you had this issue, what would they do for you? Stress the fact that this is a deal breaker, get something in writing from them. The kit will fit on a 2012 just as well as it'd fit on my 2010.
The situation needs to be near perfect for it to happen and not everyone will see it, thats why VW hasn't made the IC kit an mid production parts change across the model line.
Work with the dealer and explain to them if you ever think you had this issue, what would they do for you? Stress the fact that this is a deal breaker, get something in writing from them. The kit will fit on a 2012 just as well as it'd fit on my 2010.
tomo366
TDI Lifer, Member #68
just thinking out loud here......would adding a coolant heater aleviate this problem??
If you mean mimmick the air-to-water intercooler design of the 2012 Passat then yes, that will fix the problem. That is a really good idea, add a heater line inside the intercooler.
Main problem is the air-to-air intercooler is too efficient for the cold weather, it supercools the hot/humid exhaust in the intercooler...
Long-time lurker, first-time poster as I've had no real problem worth investigating with the car until today. Wish I'd read this thread before more thoroughly...
Drove to work in the rain at 53*F yesterday a.m., and then went out to the parking lot this a.m. after my shift and started the car w/no problem at 23*F. I then drove home and parked it in the garage at 60*F. Six hours later I tried to start it and it died.
So I tried again, and again, and, well, you know, until it sputtered to life. It ran rough for about a block and then cleared out. Called the dealer, who offered to look at it, but said, "They're switching to winter blend right now" so "it's probably just a little water in the fuel".
Then I read the "intercooler icing" threads here.
Have really enjoyed the car. Waited two years to buy to ensure VW had gotten it right.
Should've waited two more for a Passat, I guess.
Drove to work in the rain at 53*F yesterday a.m., and then went out to the parking lot this a.m. after my shift and started the car w/no problem at 23*F. I then drove home and parked it in the garage at 60*F. Six hours later I tried to start it and it died.
So I tried again, and again, and, well, you know, until it sputtered to life. It ran rough for about a block and then cleared out. Called the dealer, who offered to look at it, but said, "They're switching to winter blend right now" so "it's probably just a little water in the fuel".
Then I read the "intercooler icing" threads here.
Have really enjoyed the car. Waited two years to buy to ensure VW had gotten it right.
Should've waited two more for a Passat, I guess.
bdisco
Veteran Member
see my sig >
tomo366
TDI Lifer, Member #68
Sorry for you didnt wait long enough.......
Not sure if any of this sounds kosher to me. Many early turbo cars used to use water injection to cool the intake charge. many diesels and other cars turbo and not run in very humid rainy weather injesting a lot of humidity, Once running engine heat should melt any ice build up unless of course a lot of people here are starting their cars and going heavy boost right away before being warmed up, and how much condensation and ice build up are we talking here? It would seem to me that yes it is possible, but you would need a hell of a lot of condensation and ice formation to do this otherwise every turbo diesel driven in a humiod climate or rainy day would be injesting sooo much water that the motor couldn't handle/pass through.
The volume of posts on this thread give me pause to think that I am wrong, but on the other hand there were a lot of people claiming all of the Audi's self accelerated into their garage walls too.
The volume of posts on this thread give me pause to think that I am wrong, but on the other hand there were a lot of people claiming all of the Audi's self accelerated into their garage walls too.
bdisco
Veteran Member
sickmtbnutcase
Well-known member
cardog, somewhere back in this thread is some datalogging I did of IATs during normal driving in cold weather (near/at 0 degrees F). IATs barely got above ambient temperature and that was with the lower grille blocked off. Seeing claims that the EGR is a culprit, if that is adding high-moisture gasses into the intake in that cold weather, then it seems perfectly reasonable that ice can build up easily inside the IC since it appears to work really well. That also shows us that higher humidity could also cause the same issue. Thankfully, it's normally dry when it's cold here; but we still have had multiple hard-start issues with our '09 that mirror many other owners' experiences.
If someone doesn't park the car in above freezing temps for a while, or does a long drive, the amount of ice that can accumulate inside the IC seems significant. The problem really comes up when the IC gets above freezing while parked and the ice melts and puddles in the lower hose post-IC. Starting up then ingests this slug of water. Quite a different scenario than water injection or damp intake air charge from the atmosphere going through an above-freezing IC during normal operation. There was a pic floating around of an IC hose with a big chunk of ice in it too - not fun to see.
VW's fix appears to address (most of the time) what people have found. Close off most of the intercooler so it doesn't work as well and intake charge temperatures stay warm enough to prevent icing from occurring.
If someone doesn't park the car in above freezing temps for a while, or does a long drive, the amount of ice that can accumulate inside the IC seems significant. The problem really comes up when the IC gets above freezing while parked and the ice melts and puddles in the lower hose post-IC. Starting up then ingests this slug of water. Quite a different scenario than water injection or damp intake air charge from the atmosphere going through an above-freezing IC during normal operation. There was a pic floating around of an IC hose with a big chunk of ice in it too - not fun to see.
VW's fix appears to address (most of the time) what people have found. Close off most of the intercooler so it doesn't work as well and intake charge temperatures stay warm enough to prevent icing from occurring.
Just out of curiosity, how many miles/kms since your last service? My event took place about 8000km after last service (2/3 way to next service).
Does VW check/clear the duct as part of scheduled service items?
I should also note that the couple of times I've driven the car since the episode, I've noticed a bizarre exhaust odor, whereas there was no exhaust odor previously. Also, my mileage that morning and since has been several mpg less than what I would have expected under the circumstances, after 26K of getting to know the car.
So, similar situation to my event. Hope you're in the queue for the cold weather IC kit... Other than that, my vehicle performed flawlessly before the modification, today in for the third time since, this time to chase out the warning lights gremlins (first the hood release was disconnected, second was cooling fan rubbing on power steering pipe). At least they are polite....
740GLE
Top Post Dawg
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- 2015 Passat SEL, 2017 Alltrack SE; BB 2010 Sedan Man; 2012 Passat,
VW won't check the IC piping for moisture unless you prod and poke them. It's not in the procedure to do it as part of a regular service.
BTW past few cold morings (20's) with afternoons in the 40's my system still seems to be working like a champ. About 25K since the IC kit was installed last October.
BTW past few cold morings (20's) with afternoons in the 40's my system still seems to be working like a champ. About 25K since the IC kit was installed last October.
mrutter1
Veteran Member
Currently, my 2013 Golf is at the dealer getting the repair kit installed. Tech line authorized it this Monday...the same day the technician found the brown sludge and some water in the post intercooler hose. Car was purchased in July and has just over 12K on it. It started cutting out on me above 3K rpm's under high loads while accelerating. I even had the white puffs of steam flashing me in the rear view mirror. Tech line also authorized a full cleaning of all intake plumbing as well. I will post photos later. I even saw my IC kit yesterday...not sure what the butterfly on the new intercooler is going to do. I honestly haven't found the time to read this full thread.
740GLE
Top Post Dawg
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- 2015 Passat SEL, 2017 Alltrack SE; BB 2010 Sedan Man; 2012 Passat,
AMAZING!!!!
I thought the 2012's were updated? Oh wait, dealer talk is cheap compared to $1000 in parts and 4-6 hours of labor.
Read through the thread, first post covers most the info. The kit reduces the IC volume by 2/3 thus will try and prevent the condensation to freeze.
BTW what was your driving habbits? This is great news the dealer stepped up to the plate and not even on a hard start or start-die symptoms that are more common.
I thought the 2012's were updated? Oh wait, dealer talk is cheap compared to $1000 in parts and 4-6 hours of labor.
Read through the thread, first post covers most the info. The kit reduces the IC volume by 2/3 thus will try and prevent the condensation to freeze.
BTW what was your driving habbits? This is great news the dealer stepped up to the plate and not even on a hard start or start-die symptoms that are more common.
This can happen in southern states if conditions are right. 2010 JSW, 77K miles, cold Feb morning in Alabama 15*F.
Started car for warm up and thaw ice off windshield, went back inside. 10-15 minutes later noticed car not running. Engine will turn over no start. By noon temps in 40's, engine starts runs rough, CEL is on. Towed to shop, code shows low pressure cyl #3. Swapped injector to different cyl, code does not change. Compression check confirms low pressure cyl #3. Pulled head had it checked, all good. Dropped pan, very apparent bent rod. Replaced all 4 rods with aftermarket, $3600 later all good.
Had I known about the icing problem beforehand, I would have checked the IC hose at oil changes. FWIW, very little water in IC hose at teardown (had already been injested), some sludge. How much water after 77K, who knows?
Started car for warm up and thaw ice off windshield, went back inside. 10-15 minutes later noticed car not running. Engine will turn over no start. By noon temps in 40's, engine starts runs rough, CEL is on. Towed to shop, code shows low pressure cyl #3. Swapped injector to different cyl, code does not change. Compression check confirms low pressure cyl #3. Pulled head had it checked, all good. Dropped pan, very apparent bent rod. Replaced all 4 rods with aftermarket, $3600 later all good.
Had I known about the icing problem beforehand, I would have checked the IC hose at oil changes. FWIW, very little water in IC hose at teardown (had already been injested), some sludge. How much water after 77K, who knows?
Softrockrenegade
Veteran Member
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- None...2011 Golf DSG (replaced by VW W/) 2013 Passat SE 6M(bought back) Current 2017 sportwagen TSI 4Motion.
With the IC icing coming back into season I'm sure glad I traded my golf for the passat . How long is this gonna go on befpre an official recall is in order .... How does vw keep avoiding recalls on these serious problems ?
sickmtbnutcase
Well-known member
ok, smack this idea down if you think it's crazy...but it hit me the other day.
LP EGR gasses are cooled. What I don't know is how cool they get. I haven't looked at the LP EGR line after the cooler, but could it be possible to install an air compressor water/oil separator in that line before the turbo? If the LP EGR is the source of much of the moisture, that could be an easy and inexpensive fix. The only concern I have is temp of the gasses. I would think flow through the filter should be ok.
Good idea? Completely bonkers? Thoughts?
LP EGR gasses are cooled. What I don't know is how cool they get. I haven't looked at the LP EGR line after the cooler, but could it be possible to install an air compressor water/oil separator in that line before the turbo? If the LP EGR is the source of much of the moisture, that could be an easy and inexpensive fix. The only concern I have is temp of the gasses. I would think flow through the filter should be ok.
Good idea? Completely bonkers? Thoughts?
red64chevelle
Veteran Member
That might work. Perhaps a water/oil catch can like the ones BFI sells.
MonsterTDI09
TDIClub Enthusiast, Veteran Member
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truman
Top Post Dawg
Probably not more than 0.1% will suffer a catastrophic failure- drive more, worry less, as they say. What are the chances that any single owner will suffer through 2 design failures- HPFP and iced intercooler? You really gotta love the brand to put up with this crap. A decade ago, the angst was about relay 109 and failing MAFs. How times have changed.