What does a normal stage 4 tune boost graph look like?

sriracha said:

More importantly, how fun is a stage 4 Malone tune to drive?

I enjoy my 1.5 tune. Wondering what stage 4 is like.

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Right now I have a big old flat spot. I have driven lots of cars and used to have a couple built nissans. Right now this thing just feels off to me. I will let you know after I get it fixed, I'm going to keep updating this thread because I wasn't able to find what I needed when I was googling things and really hope this helps the next guy.

Well, anybody's Stage 4 tune is fun to drive. Mike @TDTUNING has kept my tunes up to date when I had hardware changes. Compared to stock, a Stage 1.5 is a blast to drive; now add another 100 foot pounds of torque at WOT and "a blast" is the understatement of the year...

Night and day difference. But fuel eco makes me question if it's worth it. Still continuously hitting 32.5mpg mixed driving. But being able to merge and hold speeds on hills is nice.

Nero Morg said:

Night and day difference. But fuel eco makes me question if it's worth it. Still continuously hitting 32.5mpg mixed driving. But being able to merge and hold speeds on hills is nice.

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Woah! I didn't even think about the affect on fuel economy. I'm getting 40mpg mixed driving every tank with a Stage 1.5 and dynamic EGR tune, in my BEW.

Well there's a few other factors on mine, like how I have my injection timing advanced to the top of the chart, iq set at 4.2, south beach rims, missing the wind shields on the underside, ect. Your mileage may vary.

Nero, finally someone that is getting the same FE as me! I have the stage 4 tune and I average 31-33 mpg in the city. There are people on here saying they are getting 38 mpg with the same setup. No idea how they do it.

I'm getting 42-43 mixed even with it not running so hot. IP 5.8, and I don't lay into it much. Traffic here sucks so I do my share of crawling through it though.

I pulled the intercooler tonight, had plans to go hiking with some friends this morning so the car had to take a break. Removing the window reservoir and loosening the plastic in the inner fender lets you do this without pulling the bumper. Have to wrestle a bit with the plastic flange intake thing on the front of the intercooler. It makes it a real PIA to get the intercooler back in as well! Anyway I tested the intercooler and it was fine, cleaned it with soapy water while I was at it. I then tried to test the pipe from the intercooler to the EGR figured I would reuse the spring clamps to make sure they held and surprise the clamp that would normally go to the intercooler failed almost consistently at 17ish PSI. I ordered a 10 pack of Size 36 worm hose clamps and am going to replace all the spring clamps. I will then test that section of pipe, retest the intercooler with it in the car(want to be sure I didnt do anything with the wresting to get the flange/intake back on), and then get it back together and see how it runs. I realized while putting the intercooler back in I probably could have pressure tested it in the car with some work, but the more I thought about it, I would have had to use the section of hose that had the problematic clamp due to hose sizes and clearance so probably better I removed it anyway.

mrfiat said:

Nero, finally someone that is getting the same FE as me! I have the stage 4 tune and I average 31-33 mpg in the city. There are people on here saying they are getting 38 mpg with the same setup. No idea how they do it.

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Well after spending the money to get a fresh IP installed, and still getting the same fuel eco, I accepted defeat that this is my life now lol

As for your charge air cooler, make sure you get all the water out. Nothing better than globs of water being sucked into a high compression engine
Past that, worm gears everywhere. Did that on my car, ain't never looking back.

Nero Morg said:

As for your charge air cooler, make sure you get all the water out. Nothing better than globs of water being sucked into a high compression engine
Past that, worm gears everywhere. Did that on my car, ain't never looking back.

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It's hanging in the car open to air so should be pretty dry by the time I can get back to it after work tonight. I was planing on letting it idle for a couple minutes before doing anything per these instructions https://www.tdiclub.com/articles/Intercooler_Cleaning/ I didn't use solvent to clean it like those instructions though, it wasn't that dirty really. I was having problems pressure testing it. 2in fittings so I had to press in the 1.5 hose and hold it in while at pressure, didn't want to go buy more hose. So I decided to cap it and fill it with water before pressurizing it, water leaking out would have been easy to spot. Before I pressure it in the car I'll give it a blast or two at higher pressure with the bottom end open as well to blow anything out. I will probably leave a couple of the spring clamps on at least initially. The one between the EGR elbow and the plastic pipe is easy to get to and can stay until it proves problematic. The one on the turbo outlet I remember it being a real PIA to get that hose over the outlet adapter and don't want to mess with it unless it leaks. The rest of them are going to go, I already have things apart and I don't want to do this again.

I would start the car with the boost pipe at the EGR valve disconnected and not pointing to the intake.

Rev the engine a bit to force any water left out.

I did this when I cleaned my IC in a solvent cleaner and flushed it with air, water, and more air.

I let it idle in the garage last night for about 15min. Was a little ruff when it first started but that seemed like the normal air working out of the IP. I took it easy on it this morning driving it into work for the first about 30 min. I will run a log later but think it is still giving me the boost dip judging by the boost gauge. The upper hose has been tested, the intercooler I tried to test but the PVC tester not having a lip and the bottom hose being a bit slick meant the tester kept blowing out around 18psi. Pretty sure it is fine, which only leaves the hose from turbo to intercooler, or the one easy to get to spring clamp I left on the upper hose. On the plus side if I have to pull that bottom hose its not supper hard, I can isolate it to test and then I can charge the whole track. I really wish my atlas skid plate weighed a little less after all this though

4th gear
https://log.malonetuning.com/chart/258131
5th gear

https://log.malonetuning.com/chart/258132

Traffic wouldn't let me get a good run. Still getting the dip so I pulled the pancake pipe tested it as good. Anyone who may need to do this an Ibuprofen bottle makes a great plug for the turbo outlet end. It tested good up to 20PSI which is the point my PVC tester begins to slide out despite my best efforts. I then tested from the EGR valve to the turbo outlet also to 20PSI. Replaced the spring clamp on the turbo outlet with a worm clamp. Getting that hose back on the turbo outlet is a PIA with that hard line right there, I think its a fuel line, but I managed. I'm fairly confident in my lack of any boost leaks at this point, my clamps are all good and tight with 5/8 socket. I would need a tester with a lip or something I could put multiple clamps on to get it any higher than 20PSI.

looks fine, the dip is mostly reactionary to the initial spike and only 2psi under requested. adjustments to n75 mapping can smooth that out a lot, shoot us an email.

I would check your MAF output as that controls the MAP

Curious Chris said:

I would check your MAF output as that controls the MAP

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It's already been checked, and is OK.

I emailed Owain. I had rented the flashzilla and already returned it as I am a month into troubleshooting this, figured the issue was my car. And well, some of it was in all honesty. My pre-tune graphs didn't make me think I had any of the issues I have found and fixed though. https://i.imgur.com/ihTijnl.jpg Still would love to know what the hell happened to my exhaust manifold nuts and when/why they fell off. Owain's post above makes me think the dip is just normal response to the initial spike so I might be living with it, will let you know when I hear back.

The car feels more responsive after having everything apart and replacing the spring clamps. The dip is still there in the graphs and I can watch it dip on the boost gauge but the car feels more responsive. Not sure how much of that is in my head, but I would recommend anyone getting a tune replace the spring clamps. Mine are all probably a little tighter than they need to be as I used a 5/8 instead of a screwdriver but I know they are tight and they are much easier to adjust or move then the spring type. Also testing these pipes and hoses off the car gives you a lot of respect for boost as you can watch the rubber hoses inflate around 20PSI

The advantage of a spring/tension type clamp is that it's able to change size in temperature extremes.

BobnOH said:

The advantage of a spring/tension type clamp is that it's able to change size in temperature extremes.

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That's part of the reason why OTR tractors use constant torque or spring loaded screw clamps. Believe me if there was room that's what I'd use. But the upper cooler connection is a bit cramped.

Race clamps are a bit expensive which are kind of the best of both worlds. I'm also not sure where I would have got new spring clamps or if they would have done a better job holding. So taking those options out of the equation I will go with what I know is sealing. With the spring clamps I was getting slow leak around 20PSI may not have been enough to really do anything, but at least with the worm gears I know I hold pressure. replacing 18 year old clamps just seems like good prevention anyway. I saved all the spring clamps though, I am sure I can use them later on cooling lines or other vehicles.

Owain got back to me and adjustments would need to be made to the tune to make the N75 respond faster and a bit less aggressively. He also said I could try raising my IP to lower fueling. I rented the flashzilla and returned it weeks ago so tune adjustments aren't really an option without renting again. I'm at 5.8 for IP right now, so will give raising my IP to a bit over 6 a try. I also asked if replacing the N75 might fix it and was told it seemed fine.

Your 4th gear pull looks fine. The turbo responds with a PID loop and you need to keep the throttle at 100% . Normally the boost will overshoot a little and then undershoot a little then settle out to resolution of the A to D conversion. Now the tune can minimize this initial settling: I had RC 4.5 VNT 17-22 and it would peg the requested MAP every time.

OK so having a dip is perfectly fine and normal, but it sounds like it can be adjusted out with adjustments to the tune. Not an option for me since I rented the flashzilla and not knowing all of this returned it a while ago. Also having a little bit of leak down from spring clamps might be OK as it didn't effect my graphs much. Wish I had known all of this but I hope this maybe helps the next guy and saves them some time and headaches.

If anyone is curious I also tried adjusting my IP(did this per hammer mod not sure if VCDS would have been better) as Owain suggested. I was at 5.8 before, graph below is at 6.4-6.6 It isn't following requested boost any better, little worse actually. I'm going to tap it back to 6-6.2 which I have read is the best mechanical setting for my 1019's and then calling it good.
https://log.malonetuning.com/chart/258353

pyromancer said:

OK so having a dip is perfectly fine and normal, but it sounds like it can be adjusted out with adjustments to the tune. Not an option for me since I rented the flashzilla and not knowing all of this returned it a while ago. Also having a little bit of leak down from spring clamps might be OK as it didn't effect my graphs much. Wish I had known all of this but I hope this maybe helps the next guy and saves them some time and headaches.

If anyone is curious I also tried adjusting my IP(did this per hammer mod not sure if VCDS would have been better) as Owain suggested. I was at 5.8 before, graph below is at 6.4-6.6 It isn't following requested boost any better, little worse actually. I'm going to tap it back to 6-6.2 which I have read is the best mechanical setting for my 1019's and then calling it good.
https://log.malonetuning.com/chart/258353

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Can you do a 15 second run at full throttle?

Curious Chris said:

Can you do a 15 second run at full throttle?

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That was full throttle. I'm not sure I could do a full 15 seconds on any roads around me. I also wonder how long that would be putting me above redline, unless you're asking for a 2nd through 5th gear run. I could try for one of those this weekend I typically have to find a stretch of highway at off hours for one of those, Seattle traffic tends to be bad all the time.

sriracha said:

More importantly, how fun is a stage 4 Malone tune to drive?

I enjoy my 1.5 tune. Wondering what stage 4 is like.

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The power increase from stage 1.5 to stage 4 is larger than the power increase from stock to stage 1.5. It's a big difference.

It surprises (and apparently upsets) people who think their cars are supposed to be fast.

It's not fast like an actual fast car, like a Porsche 911 or something, but it's faster than most econo-box cars, like a Civic, Mazda 3, Toyota anything, mini-vans, some low-end BMWs, Mercedes, etc.

Of course you can easily find a faster car than a stage 4 TDI, but it will use three times the amount of fuel.

pyromancer said:

That was full throttle. I'm not sure I could do a full 15 seconds on any roads around me. I also wonder how long that would be putting me above redline, unless you're asking for a 2nd through 5th gear run. I could try for one of those this weekend I typically have to find a stretch of highway at off hours for one of those, Seattle traffic tends to be bad all the time.

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Go west and find a nice long straight stretch. You need a long run to allow the PID loop to settle out. IIRC I was in 4th gear and doing about 115 mph at the end of 15 seconds.