Car and Driver: 2008 TDI Jetta named one of 2008's most fuel efficient surprises

troy_heagy

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Drivbiwire said:
People want: -Horsepower -0 to 60 times in under 6
Correction. "Many" people want, but not all people. Some people want high MPG cars like the Prius, Insight, and yes a Lupo or Polo.

However the car WILL NOT cost $15,000 due to the extensive use of aluminum, plastics, and other weight saving components that are extremely expensive to produce.
Actually, I'd be perfectly happy with an all steel-bodied Lupo/Polo that "only" got 60 mpg. They could sell such a vehicle for the same price as a Golf (~$15,000 baseline).

The moment it hit the shore,
I would buy it.
 

troy_heagy

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IndigoBlueWagon said:
It's interesting to read how everyone's trying to convince themselves that the C&D mileage numbers are too low.
Actually *all* C&D mileage numbers are low. They drove a Prius and got 35 out of it. They drove an insight and barely passed 40 (I routinely get 80-90 in mine). They drove the New Beetle TDI and get around 35.

C&D drivers have heavy foots.
 

PlaneCrazy

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troy_heagy said:
It's an improvement over the old Rotary Pump Jetta (2006) which is rated at: 30 city/38 highway DSG and 30 city/37 highway manual under the new EPA rules:

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/compx2008f.jsp?year=2006&make=Volkswagen&model=Jetta

A 31/39 is a slight improvement for the 2008 model.
The 2006 Jetta is not rotary pump, it is PD.

The B5.5 Passat TDI, BTW, was also rated at 38 highway under the old system. It was rated 42 in Canada, and I had no trouble beating that.
 

leicaman

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El Dobro said:
I was just reading about the SCCA VW TDI series and all of the cars will be equipped with the 2.0 engine and 6 speed DSG transmissions.
This is actually good for us. They will see the weak point of the transmissions and will no doubt create some beefier parts for it. Its one way to quickly improve the automatics. I think VW knows this.

As much as we beef about American cars, the auto transmission is one area where GM has made some solid parts.
 

donDavide

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august676 said:
This article is BS!! First of all Autoweek said that the new jetta would get 44city and 60highway mpg. Some others that have tested it have gotten the same. This article is very Bias. Just remember Car and Driver is somehow owned by General motors in Detroit. This is exactly what you would expect them to say. All the other articles I've read about the new 2.0 liter TDI have been very very positive.
Car and Driver is owned by a French company
 

TheLongshot

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PlaneCrazy said:
On automatics: in Europe, indeed the automatic is an anomaly. It is for people with physical handicaps or high-end cars.
Or on rentals. When I went to England, I had no problem finding an auto to rent.

Jason
 

PlaneCrazy

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TheLongshot said:
Or on rentals. When I went to England, I had no problem finding an auto to rent.

Jason
You have to ask for it though, otherwise you get a manual. And since I never ask for it, I get a manual and exercise my left hand for a change.

Reminds me of a funny story about the first time I ever rented in the UK, back in 1985. I hadn't specified that I wanted an automatic, but at our first stop, Penzance (we were on a combined rail pass/car rental deal), they only had one car left, an automatic Escort. The nice lady at the counter apologises somewhat profusely and asks "are you sure you know how to drive an automatic?" I assured her I did :rolleyes: She asked me again several times and even offered to show me if I had any problems...

Uhh, lady, there's a pedal missing!
 

SBAtdijetta

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PlaneCrazy said:
You have to ask for it though, otherwise you get a manual. And since I never ask for it, I get a manual and exercise my left hand for a change.

Reminds me of a funny story about the first time I ever rented in the UK, back in 1985. I hadn't specified that I wanted an automatic, but at our first stop, Penzance (we were on a combined rail pass/car rental deal), they only had one car left, an automatic Escort. The nice lady at the counter apologises somewhat profusely and asks "are you sure you know how to drive an automatic?" I assured her I did :rolleyes: She asked me again several times and even offered to show me if I had any problems...

Uhh, lady, there's a pedal missing!
:D LOL that is very funny. Hmmm :rolleyes: lemme think, put her in drive, right pedal to go left to stop...

Well anyway I think most manual drivers, well at least I do, have a strange feeling when getting in to an auto.

When i first get in one i keep putting my left foot down to try and get a quick feel for the clutch resistance, this happens by habit, even if I already know its an auto. I do the same thing when comeing to stops, and am a little funny on the breaks as im used to engine breaking and then pushing the clutch in and breaking. Ohh and that gear selector thing that i dont know what to do with is odd... I keep wanting to rest my hand on it in case i need to shift. It feels quite odd all together.

OK back to the 2009 CR!!

Im behind the curve here, has this motor been out in Europe already or are they still using the range of 2.0 PD 130 or 150 etc motors.

I just wonder how much power we could see from a tuned 2.0 CR TDI???:)
 
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PlaneCrazy

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SBAtdijetta said:
Well anyway I think most manual drivers, well at least I do, have a strange feeling when getting in to an auto.
Now that I mainly drive our B6 wagon, which is a 6-speed manual, when I get into my wife's B5.5 (automatic) TDI I almost throw my back out when I get in to start it. Routine in B6: get in, depress clutch and brake and simultaneously shift into neutral, insert and depress "key", car fires, shift into 1st or reverse depending on parking situation, and drive off.

Routine in B5.5: get in car, slam left foot on floor where the clutch pedal should be and simultaneously yank on an un-yankable gear lever, curse, start car, curse some more, depress brake, shift into D or R, and drive away. And curse some more if I threw my back out of whack (in my very late 40s, it doesn't take much...)
 

rotarykid

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Usually I hammer the brake at least once looking for the clutch when I drive an automatic anything . When I drove a new 05 TDI-PD Passat when they were new I pulled this trick by accident when coming out the dealership parking lot :eek: , whoops . Went to go for the clutch and got a good demonstration of how well the brakes worked .

After standing the car on it's nose once or twice :eek: I usually adapt . Luckily I always make my passengers wear their seat belt so I haven't thrown anyone threw the windshield in a while but I have surprised myself and my passengers a few times over the years . I really wish we had the manual option on high mpg rental cars in the US .

If we did have the manual option in US rental cars I would never have to drive anything automatic ever again . That would make me happy .
 

bestmapman

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We plan on getting one of the first TDI Sportwagons. Currently we have an 06 Jetta TDI. Maybe we will have it by TDIfest. If we do we will see you there.
 

DickSilver

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The last time I was able to rent a car with a manual transmission in the USA was in 1971, rented a VW Beetle with air conditioning from Budget in Memphis. It has been a long dry spell since then........
 

jimnms

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I never had trouble switching between automatic and manual transmission vehicles before. I even worked at a place where the fleet was about 50:50 auto and manuals, and I might drive 4 different vehicles in a day.
 

frugality

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At Christmas I drove my parents Windstar and a few times I grabbed air going for the invisible 'shifter'. Other than that, I don't have too much of a problem driving an automatic. :)
 

Mulad

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PD = Pumpe Düse, which is the type of fuel injector most recently used on U.S. Jettas (I can't remember what's in the Touareg TDI..). That's going to be replaced by common rail (CR) when the Jetta TDI returns.

DSG = Direct-Shift Gearbox, a sort of automated manual transmission with two clutches which provides for extremely fast shifting and roughly the same fuel economy as a manual gearbox. They currently use clutches which are bathed in fluid to prevent overheating (er, I think that's the reason), though that saps a bit of power. Successor "dry" clutch (or will they be "damp"?) DSG transmissions should be even more efficient.
 

LRTDI

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jimnms said:
I never had trouble switching between automatic and manual transmission vehicles before. I even worked at a place where the fleet was about 50:50 auto and manuals, and I might drive 4 different vehicles in a day.
I had a red truck auto, and borrowed a friends identical red truck stick shift. He didn't tell me. It was in gear. Parking space was tight

You can guess the rest of the story
 

SBAtdijetta

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LRTDI said:
I had a red truck auto, and borrowed a friends identical red truck stick shift. He didn't tell me. It was in gear. Parking space was tight

You can guess the rest of the story
:D:D:D Lol Funny!
 

Acidhead

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frugality said:
..... and a few times I grabbed air going for the invisible 'shifter'.
Been there done that!! And after crazy day in my big truck...have looked for the invisible clutch...more than a few times...:eek: :D
 

cptmox

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DickSilver said:
The last time I was able to rent a car with a manual transmission in the USA was in 1971, rented a VW Beetle with air conditioning from Budget in Memphis. It has been a long dry spell since then........
I recently rented a manual transmission Toyota Yaris while on vacation in Ireland. Since it was a right-hand drive, shifting with the left hand made trying to remember which side of the extremely narrow roads to drive on very tough.

No wonder rental insurance in Ireland is so expensive.
 

cujet

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Dunno513 said:
It's a larger displacement, higher power engine with a fuel hungry emissions cycle. What part of reality do people not understand. It's not magically going to get better milage just because it's new.

The PD lost ground to the rotary pumps, and the CR is going to lose ground to both. Just a fact of life...

Over a year ago while the CR development and PD demise was being debated I commented on a posted article that clearly said that fuel efficiency would be compromised for sake of 50 state emissions standards in the new CR technology. Apparently no one wanted to hear the possible truth at the time.

But.. this is the best written article about diesels I have read yet... The writer was actually educated..

Oh well.. back to my humble existance... Guess the blame will go the way of the DSG.. ya..thats the reason...:rolleyes:
AMEN! I have been saying the very same thing, but nobody listens. The Diesel is not gaining efficiency. It is loosing it.

Chris
 

lbhskier37

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cujet said:
AMEN! I have been saying the very same thing, but nobody listens. The Diesel is not gaining efficiency. It is loosing it.

Chris

??

From the US site.

Engines overall, gas and diesel, are gaining efficiency all the time. Maybe not as fast as if there were no emissions regulations, but they are gaining.

Looking very forward to having a 2009 TDI. Hopefully will have a tax credit to go along with it too. Can't wait!
 

jimnms

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LRTDI said:
I had a red truck auto, and borrowed a friends identical red truck stick shift. He didn't tell me. It was in gear. Parking space was tight

You can guess the rest of the story
When I worked at an airport, besides the fuel trucks we had various other support vehicles. We had an old 1960's Dodge Power Wagon fire truck. I had to get there an hour before opening, so I was the first one there. One of my duties was to inspect all of the fuel trucks, but since the fire truck never gets used I would start it up every few days and let it idle for a bit to make sure the battery stayed charged, and sometimes I would drive it around.

As a habit when I get in a manual I wiggle the shifter to make sure it's in neutral before starting. Since I was just going to crank it up and let it idle for a while, I got in, wiggled the shifter and started it up without pressing the clutch pedal. Apparently someone else had used it and left it in 3rd gear. There was a lot of slop when the shifter is in 3rd gear, so it felt like it was in neutral. The engine fired right up on the first turn of the key and the truck took off. :eek:
 

mittzlepick

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volkswagon has become the rich idiots car. At the dealer we tried out an 05 jetta wagon and they said 70 percent slushomatics. This planet deserves a huge meteorite to squish it, I'm going to wake up one day and there will be only electric shopping carts for all us fat diabetic americans.
 

cptmox

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mittzlepick said:
volkswagon has become the rich idiots car. At the dealer we tried out an 05 jetta wagon and they said 70 percent slushomatics. This planet deserves a huge meteorite to squish it, I'm going to wake up one day and there will be only electric shopping carts for all us fat diabetic americans.
Do you consider shifting a manual transmission a workout? One that will burn enough fat to keep us from become fat and diabetic?

What if that electric shopping cart had a manual transmission? Would fat diabetic Americans start to lose weight?

Would you say that we are becoming fat and diabetic because of too many trips to the grocery store in our cars regardless of transmission choice?
:)
 

oscarmv

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mittzlepick said:
volkswagon has become the rich idiots car. At the dealer we tried out an 05 jetta wagon and they said 70 percent slushomatics. This planet deserves a huge meteorite to squish it, I'm going to wake up one day and there will be only electric shopping carts for all us fat diabetic americans.
Isn't that like 20% more manuals than the average in the US?

Wonder what that makes the other brands...
 

PlaneCrazy

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cptmox said:
I recently rented a manual transmission Toyota Yaris while on vacation in Ireland. Since it was a right-hand drive, shifting with the left hand made trying to remember which side of the extremely narrow roads to drive on very tough.

No wonder rental insurance in Ireland is so expensive.
I never had that experience in the UK, I never had trouble staying on the correct side of the road, my instinct was to be sitting near the center line.

What did happen once though, was going along at 60 mph, I figured it was time to shift in to 5th. Now over here, 5th is "over and up". So I attempted to do an "over and up" on the rented Renault (this was in 1985, my first time overseas). Well, over there, "over and up" is 1st. :D

Fortunately, no amount of coaxing would get it to shift into first, and by the time I figured out what the heck was going on, I'd slowed enough to realize that 5th was too tall, and then I clued into what happened.

Good thing I didn't manage to force it into 1st at 60 mph!!!
 

cptmox

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PlaneCrazy said:
I never had that experience in the UK, I never had trouble staying on the correct side of the road, my instinct was to be sitting near the center line.

What did happen once though, was going along at 60 mph, I figured it was time to shift in to 5th. Now over here, 5th is "over and up". So I attempted to do an "over and up" on the rented Renault (this was in 1985, my first time overseas). Well, over there, "over and up" is 1st. :D

Fortunately, no amount of coaxing would get it to shift into first, and by the time I figured out what the heck was going on, I'd slowed enough to realize that 5th was too tall, and then I clued into what happened.

Good thing I didn't manage to force it into 1st at 60 mph!!!
Yeah, shifting into 1st at 60mph would not be good. No measure of vaunted Renault engineering would have saved you. :rolleyes: When I think of Renault cars circa 1985, I think of the LeCar that graced our roads during the 80's.

I should say that driving on the wrong side of the road wasn't as big a deal as the extremely narrow roads. The narrow roads were compounded by the big fat tour buses filled with big fat Americans. After a while I just pulled in both mirrors to avoid losing them.
 
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