Do we know why these transmissions are failing?

Found a nice Passat wagon, but it's pretty evident by looking at each page of this sub-forum, that these things have tranny issues. Lifetime oil is never a good idea, but even with fresh oil it seems these things fail at a pretty high rate?

It seems like they have a weak TC, I suppose that could contribute to the problem. Besides a stock unit, has anyone reached out to see if some shop could cut it open and upgrade it a little?

What fluid temps does the stock tranny see? Should we try to instal an external oil cooler? If so, is there a place we can pull oil from the tranny?

The car has 101k miles an although that is fairly low, it seems like some of them start failing around this time.

What makes these things ticking time bombs?

Seem to have more issues with the higher torque motors like the TDI BHW and the W8 gasser as far as the TC is concerned. Another factor is that diesel owners drive their cars much longer. I have seen similar issues with the gas versions as they push 200k but usually a pump seal goes at that point and dumps the fluid.

In addition to comparisons in the TDI vs. gasser for the Passats, what about this transmission used in other applications such as Audi and BMW? I know Audi & VW share much of the same DNA, but I figure the software code in the Audi might be different in the TCU/ECU. Speaking of, does this transmission also drive as squirrel-y in the BMW and Audi as it does in the Passat? Even in "sport mode" it is among the worst automatics I've driven in terms of how it shifts, etc. (CVTs and golf carts aside).

Just curious what you experts who see all these different European cars have seen with this ZF.

Is there a way to tune the transmission as well? To firm up shifts.

FordGuy100 said:

Is there a way to tune the transmission as well? To firm up shifts.

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The ZF trans in the TDI Passat can be coded through VCDS into sport mode which makes it shift better.

Where did you find the Passat?

TDI Guy (Steve Glover, aka mtbr297 here) has a shop in Fort Worth (1801 White Settlement road) that has a bunch of Passat's in it that are in various stages of being prepared for sale through RDiesel Motors (his partner). Is that where you found this Passat?

Check here:

http://www.rdieselmotors.com/carsfo...-passat-gls-tdi-wagon-coming-soon-79k-silver/

aja8888 said:

1081 White Settlement road

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That would be 1801 White Settlement road...

Y.

ymz said:

That would be 1801 White Settlement road...

Y.

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I'm doing that a lot these days.... (fixed)

No, just a local craigslist add. I will check out that website.

In my humble opinion, there isn't anything really wrong with the transmission or its design as far as usable lifespan. The VW instruction as to maintaining it is really bad, its nonexistant. If you want to talk about bad automatic transmissions, there are a ton of them out there.

Ford has a sizeable share of crappy ones...

thundershorts said:

Ford has a sizeable share of crappy ones...

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I never said they didn't. That said, my truck has a BW T-19...so I wont have an issue, besides clutches.

I will go and take a look at the car on Sunday. Its one thing to see one or two tranny related issues per page, but there seems to be a dozen or so each page you look on. It might be an ok tranny, but its gotta have a design flaw. When they fail, what happens? My guess is is hot tranny fluid that is supposed to last "forever" is one of the big culprits.

I don't see that many outright failing, however you have to realize that pretty much all autoboxes eventually give up the ghost, and many of these cars now are approaching 200k miles.

ZF says the recommend fluid changes at 100k km/60k mile intervals, and that is what I have been doing with mine. 130k miles (not very long, I know) but so far so good, and I have RC1, too.

The older versions, about 2000 on back, had a nasty issue with some check ball coming loose in the valve body causing some catastrophic failures. ZF corrected that, and any replacement valve bodies for the 5HP series will of course have the fix. Seem to see that more in BMW and Jaguars, though. But it can happen on VAG products, too.

As many B5 Passats, Audi A4s, A6s, Allroads, etc. that I routinely service, I just don't run into THAT many 5HP failures. A few torque converters, and the BHW-equipped cars are no exception. But again, the seal inside is improved on the replacements.

Good news is, even if you do have to replace one, most applications are about $1000 LESS than the upercrappy 01M.

For the record, had I had the option of buying mine with a proper manual gearbox, that is what I would have. I weighed the option of the TDI+ automatic vs. the 1.8t+ manual, and decided if I got the gasser I'd always regret not getting the diesel. Since I have no plans to part with mine, if and when the autobox goes, it will get a lifetime manual in its place. However, I am trying to prevent that from happening in the first place.

Actually a failing torque converter is super common on ZF 5HP, but there is a good option vs same olé design that will fail again in the future. 517 transmission has been making good upgraded torque converters and valve bodies for these trannies. I just placed an order for one for my 02 allroad 2.7T as the stock one is not locking up anymore any my mpg has been average of about 18 on normal driving and I can squeeze out 22-23 doing 60. That said I'm at 3200 at 70 right now... I am really looking forward to replacing the converter next week, it's not gonna be fun but I need to do it.... Especially with a J Fonz tune and big turbos.

It's a 50 cent seal in the converter that bleeds fluid pressure and won't let it lock up. New one is 900 from Audi and 517 is 550 with upgraded internals. Trans holds up to 400+ lbs of torque just fine as long as the fluid is changed often and you got a good cooler. I personally run Valvoline MaxLife Atf in all my ZFs with no issues.

FordGuy100 said:

I never said they didn't. That said, my truck has a BW T-19...so I wont have an issue, besides clutches.

I will go and take a look at the car on Sunday. Its one thing to see one or two tranny related issues per page, but there seems to be a dozen or so each page you look on. It might be an ok tranny, but its gotta have a design flaw. When they fail, what happens? My guess is is hot tranny fluid that is supposed to last "forever" is one of the big culprits.

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Also something to think about is most folks that post here on the forum are either looking to buy like you and I was as well or people that run into an issue with thier car and are looking for advice.
Thousands of people who have never had any issues with thier cars dont get on here to post.
Most of what you read here can be an actual failure or more likely abuse or lack of proper maintainence from present or past owner not to mention ones that have been smashed and backyard fixed or were Katrina flooded and resold.
My stong opinion on this is proper driving habits and proper maintainence will determine the life expectancy of any vehicle on land water snow or in the air!

I think the clutch linings wearing out may be more of the cause of tc failure than the seal. I would agree entirely that all the factors mentioned, and the climate its operated in, affect its life.

The positive - There is a place like this to know what to look for and to knowledgably find a solution. My first fluid change was at 90k when I proactively had the car unchained (no failure but very noisy). At 150k I was about to have a fluid change/flush done when the TC lockup code appeared. Because there is so much good information available here, I knew about the TSB and that in all likelihood the TC was the issue. I checked with dealers and "German car specialist" indy shops in the OKC area and was not satisfied with their answers. All said the proper solution is replacing the tranny. Contacted a couple of gurus on this site who gave of their time to respond and make me feel confident about the likely problem.

I prefer a manual and chose a shop that has done the conversion. In the end I elected to just replace the TC at half the cost of the conversion or a new transmission largely due to being informed, by the the shop, of the time realities in sourcing the parts and the fact the conversion is/was not fully vetted (minor issues). It was the correct decision for me at that time. Again, it came down to good people willing to give me the information I needed to make a sound decision. Time will tell if I made the right choice.

My point in all this rambling is that problems happen, some people report them and others don't (I think this the first time I've posted about my TC). I don't believe the number of posts is a true indicator of frequency of a problem. I do believe the people who work on a lot of these cars as to how often they see certain problems. In the end, the problem that matters most is that one that happens to the owner (me in this case). I'm just thankful I'm not left to my own or to the typical shop to get things fixed. And even after the BSM and the TC, I'd still buy this car again.

upgraded torque converters and valve bodies

DasTeknoViking said:

517 transmission has been making good upgraded torque converters and valve bodies for these trannies. I just placed an order for one for my 02 allroad 2.7T as the stock one is not locking up anymore .

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Please post the part numbers

No part numbers needed, just look em up online. 517 transmissions is their name. Excellent feedback on Audi for forums. There are guys running double the power of stock 2.7T with 500hp and mountains of torque with no complaints.

Thanks,
Mike

Half the price of a new OEM converter....hmmm...

Are they the ones advocating a higher stall speed for our tdi's?

At 250, Eriksson reman one will probably outlast the rest of the trans. Don't expect a tc to fix things if you've been driving around for awhile with a slipping tc clutch code showing.

Stall speed is slightly higher than stock. My Audi dealership had a 01 allroad for 9 years as Assist Vehicle and it had a bad tq converter for 3 years. When they retired the car they put in a converter with no problems.

Had a tranny fluid change conducted by the dealer late January and a couple weeks later I noticed some slippage using the tip as I went up through the gears. Not assuming that there may be a coincidence but I did have a nagging doubt. Have about 240000km on her now and had only one transmission flush and fluid change prior to this. About a week later experienced extreme slippage in 5th @ 90km with the RPM's rising and falling widely. Stopped the car, shut it down, and restarted it and drove the 4 min home with no issues. Made an appointment with the dealer to have it looked at within the week. They found some moisture down around the TCM with some degradation of the wiring which they replaced. Also checked the pollen filter and reseated the gasket housing with some recommended gunk. It hasn't slipped since. I had replaced the cabin filter once but didn't use anything to help improve the housing seal (which is where they think the moisture got in), I don't have a sun roof. As a thought it would seem that the unit and wiring could stand more pronounced encapsulating from moisture just as a preventative maint gesture.

B5s are prone to water getting into the tcm. Sunroof drain and battery tray drains like to clog up. Another thing to watch out for is loose windshield lower cowel which can let water down past the ac filter and down the air box. I had a C5 that I had water leaking into the cabin a while back. Tcm and water in a B5/C5 is common.

There is a TSB on the water issues with the 04-05 Passats.

aja8888 said:

There is a TSB on the water issues with the 04-05 Passats.

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There is a recall on them. Of course, it doesn't involve much, and you'd probably be better off doing it yourself.

oilhammer said:

There is a recall on them. Of course, it doesn't involve much, and you'd probably be better off doing it yourself.

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I've done it on three already. I was posting this for the benefit of the guys above who are taking water.

Can someone post a link to the TSB?

Do a search in the forum for tcm water tsb but the reply you most probably want is this one.

TheGrove said:

Do a search in the forum for tcm water tsb but the reply you most probably want is this one.

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Yep, that's it..