TDI Goes Auto-X Racing.

JOE OLEARY

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2001
Location
Flint Mi.
I took the NB Auto-x racing this weekend.My first time.Thanks to everyone on this site i have plenty of H.P. or should i say TORQUE.They didnt know what class to put me in.I was there first diesel.I ran in H class Street Tire.The cars in this class didnt seem to mind because how fast can a diesel be.I was in third place at the end of the day Saturday,But got bumped to 4th on my last run Sunday.Not to bad for an old man with a diesel.If i could have hooked this beast up off the corners i think i would have scored a victory for team TDI.Well so much for shoulda,coulda,woulda. I am going to try again 10/07/01.with some real tires.Any other TDI Auto-X stories or advice,or anybody close to Michigan that wants to give it a try,let me know.(Detroit area SCCA Solo 2)Its a blast and i think our TDIs are very well suited for this.Its a very tight course,2nd gear,not real hard on the car. J.O.
 

TorgueBaby

Active member
Joined
Nov 9, 2000
Location
Land of Milk & Honey
Greetings Joe

My best advice would be -KONI Schoks.

i have my Babe for 7 Months Now and the most important Upgrade is Threw awey the Slugish, useless original Schoks and installing a set
of Sport Koni Schockobservers.

it gives the car a bit more of a filling and fun - and, Ahhmm, 20 Km more around Corners.

GoodLuck and keep posting

Oz Nissim

Golf TDI SuperChip, Koni, Cone Filter, Hommade Ram... My Car
 

RabbitGTI

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 20, 1997
Location
Wisconsin
TDI
B4 Passat Sedan
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>If i could have hooked this beast up off the corners i think i would have scored a victory for team <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> TIRES, TIRES, TIRES, that is the #1 upgrade to pick up time. Find the stickiest street tire you can so you can stay in the same class. You will also pick up several seconds as you become more experienced....GOOD JOB!
 

JOE OLEARY

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2001
Location
Flint Mi.
Thanks for the info.How is the ride quality with the Koni shocks.I drive 100 miles a day to and from work on Michigan roads.As for the tires i did notice the cars that beat me had 160 compound tires.Mine are 300 (Pilots)
 

Gord

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 15, 1999
Location
Ottawa, ON, Canada
TDI
New Beetle, 2001, yellow
Joe,

Congrats on taking the TDI slaloming! Power wise, they are quite well suited for it. I have never had any complaints when I did it in my A3 Jetta TDI, and even my NB TDI seems good.

However, I have found some problems with the NB (at least for me they were problems). The 4th gen VW's are really porky compared to the 3rd gens. Much stiffer, which is good, but the extra 200-300 lbs of weight is terrible for auto-x. I really noticed a difference. I now basically just run my Scirocco II 8v (about 2200 lbs), and the thing is amazing. Usually one of the fastest cars at most events. Now if I could only have a TDI in a car this size!


The other problems I have encountered are more technical. The ABS on theses cars (and for me, any ABS system) sucks. I find it kicks in *way* to early, and then doesn't haul the car down from speed. I'm used to driving really hard on an auto-x course and like to be able to lock the wheels some.

I also only use left foot braking, and this just doesn't work on the TDI because the computer cuts out the engine when the brakes are held on for more than a second. It then takes a couple of seconds for it to recover.


If I could fix those issues, I think it could be a reasonably competitive car (a Golf GL esp). Now this is of course aiming for max performance taking as much as you can from a car. To go out and just drive well (and hard), but not using all of the techniques to eek out the last few tenths, they do as good as almost any gasser.

Like others have said, tires, and then shocks are your best bet if you are doing stuff to the car. Driving is of course first above all that. If you want to do it more seriously, get a spare set of wheels and tires. It really cuts down on the wear of the street gear. If you do go the street tire route (a spare set that is), get sticky ones, and get the tread shaved down to like 3/32's. It really helps response. Also, get the widest, lightest wheels you are allowed to use and can afford.

Hope this helps. Good luck and keep at it!

-Gord
99 A3 Jetta TDI -- parents car now
01 NB TDI -- everyday car
83 Scirocco -- slalom car
95 G20t -- racey street/track car
 

colucci

Veteran Member
Joined
May 13, 1998
Location
MPLS, MN USA
TDI
Jetta 1998 Green
Racing sure is fun eh?


I just got back from road racing (AARRF) in St. Cloud MN on Saturday. The ol' A3 wasn't really on top of game that day. I need a new MAF sensor. My boost is limited to about 16 psi once the car warms up. And on really hot days sometimes I can only get 10 psi!!!


Anyway, all that said I was competitive on the ~1 mile course. I was 4th slowest out of 25 or so cars. The NASCAR banked curve followed by the 1/4 miles straight just killed me. I hit 85 mph peak while the leaders (C5 Corvette, Supercharged 1 Lap GTI VR6...) were all well over 110 mph.

Tires are absolutely vital. I have z-rated Kumho Ecsta 712's on right now and they are nowhere near as good as the Sumitomo HTR-Zs I had for the past two years. Cornering is more like controlled sliding. It's fun but not as fast


Suspension is less important on the MK4s as the bodies are much stiffer. They're kind of like Weebos - they wobble but they don't fall down. Still upgrading the suspension is always a good thing.

Most important of all is experience. Every lap makes you a better driver. A good driver in a stock car can run circles around an amateur in a heavily modded one.

Good luck with your new found way of blowing money and time!!!!

D'nardo
 

JOE OLEARY

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2001
Location
Flint Mi.
I raced upnorth in the sticks @ Wortsmith Airfort Base in Oscoda.It was the Detroit Region SCCA.They normally run around the AnnArbor area.This was some sort of special away from home event.It was a last minute deal.no planing.Maybe thats the reason i had so much fun.There season ender is 10/07/01 location to be anounced.Hey Geoff and Pete i think they have a new class for good looking camshaft only cars. Just joking........
 
4

4wheeldrift

Guest
I have autocrossed my Golf TDI a few times this year. I run in STS. My car has the Shine Real Street Suspension and it is amazing. I highly recommend it. It really transformed the car. The Shine suspension not only minimizes body roll, it makes a huge difference in turn-in. The car is tossable where the stock suspension makes you weight for the weight to settle before turn-in. Go to www.srsvw.com for more info.

Also, like the others said - tires. My class, STS, is a street tire class (no DOT race tires allowed). I run Bridgestone RE71. They have the minimum allowed wear rating for the class, lots of grip in dry and wet conditions and are a bargain if they are available in your size. I also would stay away from 17 inch wheels due to the increase in unsprung weight. 15s or 16s would be better.

As for classing your car. The TDIs are in H-stock when they are stock. The mods allowed in stock are shocks, exhaust after the cat, air filter in OE box, front anti-roll bar (old rule made for first generation RX-7s), and any DOT race tire on the stock size wheels. Your chip and VNT mod move you out of stock. Actually, with the VNT mod, I believe you are in Street Mod, not even Street Touring. You can check rules at www.scca.org.

Great to see more TDIs going out there and being enoyed. Congrats!
 

GeWilli

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 6, 1999
Location
lost to new england
TDI
none in the fleet (99.5 Golf RIP, 96 B4V sold)
where did you race?

I know there was an old guy (old compared to you even Joe
) racing a stock black Jetta TDI in the detroit area. And he was seen other places.

I saw the car at the Auto-X last fall at PoleTown put on by the corvette guys.

My friend has been racing everyweekend it seems for at least 2 years around michigan in a green Integra GSR.

I suppose yours couldn't pass G-Stock inspection, but then I don't know where the NB falls into. I've been thinkin about it and have had to listen to my friend tell me I need to go out nearly every time there is one within an hour or two of lansing. . .

one of these days . . . .
 

2GreenTdi's

Veteran Member
Joined
May 28, 2001
Location
Sootland
Joe, it's good to hear about you putting the TDI shock effect down on some unsuspecting gassers, too bad it only happens once.
When I went to the strip the first time and put my dial in on the windshield the V8 boys came up in a hurry to see what I had done to my VR6. When I told them it was a 1.9 TDI they snickered and walked away.
After a Mustang GT tried to pair up with me and lost, they were back.
"Hey man, what have you done to that thing?"

The next time I went, I got paired up with the track champion the first run in his Tube chasis, electronically controlled runs, blown Camaro and didn't have a chance. I wasn't about to spend another $15 to buy back in.
 

JOE OLEARY

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2001
Location
Flint Mi.
I thought that since i have backed off my vnt by 2 turns it would cancel out my chip tuning.Ha Ha Well ok maybe i forgot to tell them.I think i would have been at a big H.P.disavantage stock.Most cars were around 130 to 175 HP.
 

JOE OLEARY

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2001
Location
Flint Mi.
Bugger, Good question,I am very happy with the sound level of this muffler.I spend a couple of hours a day in my car so i like it quiet.As for the performance.A very debatedsubject.Here is my take.If you are chipped i feel there is a slight increase in power when you free up the backpresure.I ran with no muffler(mufflerectomy)for a few months before i installed my Dynomax.I dont feel i have lost anything but the noise.Not that it was that loud with no muffler but just enough to get on my nerves after a couple of hours at highway speeds.Best of all is that i now have a cool 2.5" stainless steel tailpipe.Good for 5 mental HP.
 

GeWilli

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 6, 1999
Location
lost to new england
TDI
none in the fleet (99.5 Golf RIP, 96 B4V sold)
Well Joe, you had to go there didn't ya! LOL (about the cams I mean) . . .

about the TDI -

H-Stock is what the SCCA folks said the TDI fits into. - not sure where i was pulling g-stock

If you tell them that you have a chip then you (which if you don't isn't exactly legal)
are bumped into a modified class, but then it sounds like you kinda already know it - on the other side you'd still have more torque than those fruitcakes in the mod classes runnin their rice burners and then you would be competitive only on a track designed JUST for your car . . . (2nd gear runs for us or 3rd gear runs - something that they would have to shift in . . .)

a simple and short link:
scca tdi info

[ August 30, 2001: Message edited by: GeWilli ]
 

JOE OLEARY

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2001
Location
Flint Mi.
Sorry about the cam humor Geoff.And i promise to enter in the mod class next time to.I feel better about myself already.Maybee we'll see ya there.
 

RED

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2000
Location
NC, USA
TDI
2012 TDI 4dr GOLF 6sp MAN
GORD,
Have you considered trasplanting the A3's TDI into your Scirocco?
Here is an article about the possible engine swaps for VW's. http://members.nbci.com/jettaboy/engine_swap/page1.html
Here is a partial quote:
"No groaning, please! Diesel swaps fall into two categories: swaps for those that
appreciate Rudolf Diesel’s approach to the internal combustion engine, and
those that prefer not to share their service stations with the 18-wheelers.

First for those who prefer to burn oil: Since the early Rabbit Diesels boasted a
dismal 48 horsepower, it’s difficult to imagine any swap that would not improve
performance. Diesel folks are not typically hard core performance nuts, and, they
often upgrade when engines wear out, infrequent with a Diesel. So, a lot of Diesel
swapping is for a lower mileage, newer motor.

While upgrading to a later, fresher 1.6 Diesel from a tired. 1.5 can be gratifying,
one of the best swaps is Eurospec’s 1.9-liter Diesel conversion to fit any 1.6
engined Rabbit, Rabbit Pickup, Golf or Jetta, Dasher, Quantum or Fox and
Vanagon applications These new engines come complete with timing components
and vacuum pumps and use stock 1.6 parts for everything else. With modern
engineering, 68 horsepower, 16 percent more displacement and, more importantly,
15.5 mm more stroke over the 1.5-liter diesel, this is an excellent swap.

The most immediate benefit comes from a healthy increase in torque exactly,
the prescription needed for a tired diesel motor. With new 1.5- and 1.6 liter
motors nearly impossible to find, and many owners at the end of the rebuild cycle
for their tired old motors, a new motor can really breathe new life into an aging
but useful older vehicle.

Another hot swap idea for the oil burners in our midst is a Turbo Diesel 1.6 into
an earlier or non turbocharged car. The EcoDiesel and the Turbo Diesel engines,
helped out by turbo boost are sharp performers, but rare and in high demand.
Pick of the litter would be installing VW’s interceded TDI in an early A1.
With 90 horsepower – 110 with a chip – and almost as much torque as a VR6,
this combination would probably blow the doors off a stock A3 VR6. l know I'd
like to try it, anyway..."

[ August 30, 2001: Message edited by: RED ]
 

Gord

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 15, 1999
Location
Ottawa, ON, Canada
TDI
New Beetle, 2001, yellow
Red,

Yes I have thought of dropping a TDI (from an A3) into my 'rocco, and I think it is quite do-able. The wiring and mounting would be the hardest parts.

But, I don't think I have the necessary knowledge or facilities to do the job, so I would have to have someone else do the work. And then it gets expensive. That and a TDI itself is pretty expensive to buy used. I would love to do it, it would make a scary fast car, but I just don't think I can justify it. It seems I have too many summer cars (never!) right now, so I can't justify relegating another one to the garage for half of the year. Oh well.

I am contempating however, a swap of a 1.6 TD (IDI) into the Scirocco. It would be a really easy swap, and these engines are pretty common and cheap. This engine in Europe with an intercooler puts out 90 hp, and 125 lbs/ft of torque, which is still pretty decent. I could really see doing this swap. The economy alone would be worth it. Just for reference, the 1.8L that the car has now is rated at 90hp and 105 lbs/ft of torque. It actually feels very quick, a true testement that weight makes a huge difference.

RabbitGTI,

I can't believe I missed that thread about LFB!! I'm going to have to give the workaround a try and try the Beetle again. I think it could do ok, and I had thought about this switch before, but just never got around to trying it. It still would take some time to figure out the brakes. I really don't like the way the ABS kicks in. Still, I haven't tried using it as they advertise it (brake hard and steer), but I am really used to being able to lock the wheels. I can go much deeper controlling things myself. Too bad you can't order it as an option like you could on the A3's...

On a somewhat related note, I think it is time to chip the car. The wife has been hesitant, but tonight we got beat (sort of) by an automatic Corolla!! Ouch! Well, I shouldn't say beat. We had them by a full car length, but it just wasn't enough to pull in. That and we had two people in the car, and a bunch of junk in the back, and the Corolla was empty. It doesn't hurt that they have a good 400lbs weight advantage to begin with...


Still, it's not right! I don't want to be having to fight to stay ahead of any Corolla's any more!!!


Rene,

Where is it your brother lives in Hull?!! I think the wife understands that this can't be happening again!

-Gord
01 NB TDI, 5sp, yellow
 

Dieselgeek

TDIClub Enthusiast, Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Oct 3, 2000
Location
Golden, CO
TDI
2016 Golf TDI
Joe:

I have autocrossed my Rabbit many times and I would agree with many of the recommendations given by the posts to this thread in this order:

1. Seat time. The most important!
2. Tires/wheels. Even the stickiest street tires are useless in competitive events. My opinion.
3. Quaife/Peloquin limited slip and correct gearing. You can't get the power down with an open differential and a tall second gear can help avoid costly upshifts into third gear.
4. Good suspension. Compliance wins since most autocross courses are not race track- smooth. I like Bilsteins since there is nothing to adjust (overstiffening the shocks is bad) and they are compliant.

Jim Royston
dieselgeek.com
'90 Corrado TDI
 
Top