Replacment for displacment!!!!!

Hi,I do have some updates. The engine has low compression due to pistons and rings.In fact it will not lock up when ether is sprayed directly into the intake manifold at approximately 15*C/59*F ambient/engine temp.I can only get it to catch by flooding the cylinders with lots of fuel and then spraying ether at just the right time.I still ran it on the dyno last December after sitting over night in the heated dyno shop.



This was one run that made 418whp,It did make 427whp a week or two later when we returned to test it again.

I'll take it to a track in its current condition to see what it does before possibly pulling the engine apart to rebuild.After or during the 427whp run I lost a cylinder for a while and think that there might be an injector problem.I'll pull them to test and hopefully find one that is a sticking or leaking before bringing it to the track.

here is the best 2011 dyno run that I don't think made it to this thread,

Revving nicely. Good work dude!

andy2 said:

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Do you have some beter pic's of how the reinforcement threaded end are conected ?

Hi everyone, I've still been messing around with the car. Hopefully you can view the video below,The car was shaking badly so its not a great video. No records broken,just 11.5@125 this year. The limited slip differential is acting as an open differential so I'm pulling it out and Peloquin is going to repair/modify it for drag racing. Looks like they have different options from when I bought the diff over 10 years ago,lol.

The head studs in the picture actually go right through the "filled" block including main bearing caps. The cylinder head gasket is now sealing 100% however the oil rail in the block had to be abandoned. We basically ran external oil lines to everything including main bearings etc.

I'm going away from the diamond pistons for the next build. I'll be using BHW pistons. The new build will have head studs only going down to the oil rail in the block to keep it intact and to retain the factory oil system.

The turbo setup is working efficiently with 100 psi boost and only 60 psi in the exhaust manifold around 5000 rpm. turbo's were s357 and s471 and I was using an intercooler between stages. Next year I'm going to try a 75-76mm inducer turbo and use a quick spool valve to help get it going.

https://onedrive.live.com/embed?cid...=A29B79E358B6BBE7!242&authkey=AE8lbAeEpE8PXxU

Hi Andy, Happy New Year to you!

I'm curious why you're abandoning the Diamond pistons now and going back to OE?

I think your application might be perfect for aftermarket steel pistons. There was some talk about it around here and even a picture or two from a Motorsports Expo but I haven't seen anything out in the wild sized for TDIs except Mahle Monotherms for Cummins applications. There are some OE steel Diesel pistons, e.g. Mercedes OM654, but being for 4V/cyl common rail, the bowls are all centrally located.

Bushed OE Diesel engine, presumably from a TDI to an experimental steel one at right. The company in Italy mentioned in the article below that makes it might be willing to sample a set for you.

From here: https://www.cycleworld.com/2016/01/...al-cycle-world-motorcycle-technology-feature/

Way glad to see the update.

TDIMeister said:

I think your application might be perfect for aftermarket steel pistons. There was some talk about it around here and even a picture or two from a Motorsports Expo but I haven't seen anything out in the wild sized for TDIs except Mahle Monotherms for Cummins applications. There are some OE steel Diesel pistons, e.g. Mercedes OM654, but being for 4V/cyl common rail, the bowls are all centrally located.

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https://forums.tdiclub.com/index.ph...r-cr-from-a-stock-renault-application.500489/

Same issue with the central bowls, but at least they are steel in the right bore size.
Maybe it'd make sense to toss a CR head onto the ALH block (though it'd suck to shelve the iron head), just run hollowed out injector bodies with the P-pump.
ETA: maybe you could pour the same grout into the water passages on the aluminum CR head (still talking central piston bowls here)

I totally forgot that VAG's new EA288 EVO has steel pistons. I first reported on in in the above link, but again, haven't seen any for sale and it has a central bowl, so won't work in a VE TDI.

This thread....
Was and still is inspiration to my ahu sitting in storage!

Really glad to see an update on the build

Yep. This is borderline Crazy and on the verge to madness ! I do like you guys find time to tinker with your cars lately, my projects are the last in line when it comes in favor of paying in customers ! Good job there Andy, hope to see much more action from this car of yours !

TDIMeister said:

Hi Andy, Happy New Year to you!

I'm curious why you're abandoning the Diamond pistons now and going back to OE?

I think your application might be perfect for aftermarket steel pistons. There was some talk about it around here and even a picture or two from a Motorsports Expo but I haven't seen anything out in the wild sized for TDIs except Mahle Monotherms for Cummins applications. There are some OE steel Diesel pistons, e.g. Mercedes OM654, but being for 4V/cyl common rail, the bowls are all centrally located.

First aftermarket steel pistons for passenger cars

Kolbenschmidt GmbH - part of Rheinmetall Automotive - is a pioneer in the development of steel pistons for use in passenger car engines - a technology that has become well established in modern engine manufacture. A steel piston has numerous advantages over an aluminium piston, including a...

www.ms-motorservice.com

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Happy New year to you Dave !

The reason for abandoning the diamond pistons is due to the piston rings which are supplied by Total seal.

https://www.totalseal.com/rings/gapless-diesel-rings

The correct "diesel" rings are not available in our bore size off the shelf. In addition to that we would need another set of pistons which would just make it way too expensive. The "bushed" OE piston is not ideal and I have had one bushing shift outwards as well as broken top ring lands. I do believe that the BHW pistons will survive now that the exhaust temperature is under control. Also I will be limiting engine rpm to 7500 which will make it easier on eveything. Going up in the compression ratio might be a good thing too,we'll see.

A steel piston would be ideal however getting another set of custom rods to go with them is out of the question for now.

[486] said:

Way glad to see the update.




https://forums.tdiclub.com/index.ph...r-cr-from-a-stock-renault-application.500489/

Same issue with the central bowls, but at least they are steel in the right bore size.
Maybe it'd make sense to toss a CR head onto the ALH block (though it'd suck to shelve the iron head), just run hollowed out injector bodies with the P-pump.
ETA: maybe you could pour the same grout into the water passages on the aluminum CR head (still talking central piston bowls here)

Click to expand...

The CR head is not a bad idea at all,lol. The iron lump is flowing well and actually has an improved valvetrain. It now has aftermarket Cam Motion GM LS dual valve springs to up the seat pressure. Most importantly the longer spring reduced unnecessarily high spring pressure at max lift when compared to the "HD" gasser 8 valve dual springs. We went to aftermarket custom inconel valves from Rev Valves to get the valve stem back up to 8mm to handle the stiffer springs. Techtonics Tuning "race lifters" were key to making this all work.

Thanks for the comments guys ! This project is definitely out there and thats really all that it ever was and will be,lol.

Nice to see you still are working on this.

What a fantastic update Andy! That engine sounds really good going down the track. Tons of wheel spin, your going to really be clipping when you get that rubber to stick.
What size are those bolts running through the block? They look huge.
Glad to see the intercooler between stages is working good. I got all the modern tech here but still have not caught up to you!

DannyS said:

Nice to see you still are working on this.

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Thanks man!

TDIsyncro said:

What a fantastic update Andy! That engine sounds really good going down the track. Tons of wheel spin, your going to really be clipping when you get that rubber to stick.
What size are those bolts running through the block? They look huge.
Glad to see the intercooler between stages is working good. I got all the modern tech here but still have not caught up to you!

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Thank you Louis! The "through bolt was 9/16" at the cyl head end, 5/8" in the block and 1/2" at the main bearing end. The cylinder head was fully torqued before the main bearing caps.

I remember when you visited us years ago and explained how the log manifold was not ideal. I was listening !
This is the current "paired" manifold that I'm using.


I would have used this SPA manifold however it was just not compact enough. It was made for longitudinal setups.


According to a reliable online calculator this 80mm bore engine was making approximately 480 bhp with 1500*F pre turbo EGT. I should add that it had so much crankcase pressure during the run in the video that it forced the engine oil dipstick out while having 2 crankcase vents at 3/4" ID each. More fueling is available when we get the rings sealed up better.

Extremely impressive work Andy. Those tie rod bolts are a thing of beauty. I like the manifold. It looks like you are running separate EGT on each cylinder now. If so, I am curious what you have seen for temperatures (I mean deviation between each cylinder) since you started running these? Have you made adjustments in the pump to even up cylinder temps using these measurements? That is some impressive blow-by but you are running 100psig! I have noticed that the billet blocks being made these days are adding 1-1/2" dia ports in the side for venting blow-by. Factory blocks really don't offer much vent capacity in this regard. Perhaps gas ports from top of piston to backside of top ring is a good strategy to create tighter ring seal as cylinder pressure goes up? I have only been up around 45psig (probably around 330-350HP at this point) so haven't seen any issues yet with the 1" port on the valve cover. Oil pick-up in my catch can has been fairly minimal but still more than one would want on a daily driver, fortunately this thing is a toy. 480BHP.....goals.

huh, just looked on a block I got laying around, the mains are only slightly narrower than the head bolts
Assume you made your own main caps then drilled through the whole mess from both ends meeting in the middle, counterboring the main holes offset outward a little bit with an end mill rather than a normal drill bit?

TDIsyncro said:

Extremely impressive work Andy. Those tie rod bolts are a thing of beauty. I like the manifold. It looks like you are running separate EGT on each cylinder now. If so, I am curious what you have seen for temperatures (I mean deviation between each cylinder) since you started running these? Have you made adjustments in the pump to even up cylinder temps using these measurements? That is some impressive blow-by but you are running 100psig! I have noticed that the billet blocks being made these days are adding 1-1/2" dia ports in the side for venting blow-by. Factory blocks really don't offer much vent capacity in this regard. Perhaps gas ports from top of piston to backside of top ring is a good strategy to create tighter ring seal as cylinder pressure goes up? I have only been up around 45psig (probably around 330-350HP at this point) so haven't seen any issues yet with the 1" port on the valve cover. Oil pick-up in my catch can has been fairly minimal but still more than one would want on a daily driver, fortunately this thing is a toy. 480BHP.....goals.

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I was actually using EGT's for tuning individual plunger output at idle.It is very difficult to do and then the balance might not be correct at full fuel. I need to have the current pump properly balanced at full fuel and then We'll see how much deviation there is between cylinders with EGT's. Its hard to read in the video but you can pause it and see what The EGT's were on each cylinder.

I like the idea of having the Crankcase vents on the side of the block. That would improve the oil drainage back for the cylinder head. The rings that we have had all along were just not right at all.They were worse than the stock TDI rings.

[486] said:

huh, just looked on a block I got laying around, the mains are only slightly narrower than the head bolts
Assume you made your own main caps then drilled through the whole mess from both ends meeting in the middle, counterboring the main holes offset outward a little bit with an end mill rather than a normal drill bit?

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Thats right ! billet main caps along with offseting the original main bearing cap bolt holes in the block. 2 flute end mill, Major pain to do all that work. Now we are just going to uses factory main bearing caps and put a girdle on. Also we had issues with the crankshaft journal alignment after the cyl head was torqued on the old setup.

The only substitute for cubic inches is rectangular dollars.

100 PSI FTW - holy cow!

Glad you are still hard at it! Havent had the opportunity to see that car in years! Keep up the insanity!

andy2 said:

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That looks like a lot of fun.

I don't know how I've never seen your thread before but this car is insane! Such an amazing build I've never seen anything quite like this. Subscribed from here on out

Thanks for the update, Andy, nice results!!

So are you're running BHW pistons and OE rings now? How's it sealing blowby-wise?

As I recall from an earlier photo you posted, you're using an 8 cylinder P-pump, merging the output from 2 pump plungers per cylinder, and driving the pump at 1/4 engine speed instead of 1/2. Are you running check valves (I think they're called D-valves in Bosch injection pump parlance) in-line at the merge? I ask because you could get some extra fueling into the cylinders by having the check valves because without them, you're compressing fuel that's in fuel lines of the "idle" plunger during each stroke. At the pressures relevant with diesel injection, the fuel cannot be considered incompressible anymore and adding length/volume to the fuel line affects the amount of time that the propagating pressure wave moves along that line.

What a beast! That transmission must be holding on for dear life.

Nice!
Still on the stock engine camshaft as you previously were?

TDIMeister said:

Thanks for the update, Andy, nice results!!

So are you're running BHW pistons and OE rings now? How's it sealing blowby-wise?

As I recall from an earlier photo you posted, you're using an 8 cylinder P-pump, merging the output from 2 pump plungers per cylinder, and driving the pump at 1/4 engine speed instead of 1/2. Are you running check valves (I think they're called D-valves in Bosch injection pump parlance) in-line at the merge? I ask because you could get some extra fueling into the cylinders by having the check valves because without them, you're compressing fuel that's in fuel lines of the "idle" plunger during each stroke. At the pressures relevant with diesel injection, the fuel cannot be considered incompressible anymore and adding length/volume to the fuel line affects the amount of time that the propagating pressure wave moves along that line.

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Hi Dave, thanks ! I'm very happy with the results so far.

Yes BHW pistons with Mahle rings. The Blowby is much much less now. It still pushes out some oil but with .009" piston to cylinder wall clearance that is to be expected.

Close... its now a 4 cylinder P-pump and is still being driven at 1/4 engine speed. So the delivery valve for each plunger is doing the sealing. You are correct in regards to the old setup that we had before, the 8 plunger pump did not perform well due to not having check valves at the merge.

The nozzles are now the correct "VE" style unlike the old cummins 12 valve ones I used in the past. They are a .360 nozzle (.014") I believe.

turbobrick240 said:

What a beast! That transmission must be holding on for dear life.

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I suspect you are correct,lol

[486] said:

Nice!
Still on the stock engine camshaft as you previously were?

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Nope, Its a home built steel camshaft that has more duration and lift than stock.

andy2 said:

Nope, Its a home built steel camshaft that has more duration and lift than stock.

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Now I remember the pictures you posted back when turning down the core for that.

nice wide piston/wall clearances there
I also vaguely remember your diamond pistons didn't have steel ring land inserts, did you have any troubles with the lands sinking down?
I've had a rash of broken top rings lately and the secondary ring lands always seem to mush their way down into the oil ring when they're forced to take up the slack without the steel insert