EA288 TDI engine review, real life MPG

VodkanDiesel

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 18, 2008
Location
Washington DC
TDI
2000 Jetta TDI, 2015 Jetta SEL TDI
Anyone out there with a 2015 VW TDI:

How is the new EA288 engine? How is the MPG in real life? Is it much better than the previous models? Any downsides to the new engine? What are your thoughts?

I never trust the numbers they put on the stickers because I had a 2000 Jetta TDI that got 50+ mpg.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
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Aug 16, 2004
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South of Boston
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'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
It's probably safe to say that no one has enough miles on an EA288 to provide reliable FE data. I've seen some pretty impressive numbers thrown around here, but there's mostly for partial tanks, or just highway.

However, I think the EA288 should do as well or better than the CKRA engine in the Passat, and better than the CBEA/CJAA in the Golf/Jetta. Tuning benefits offered by Adblue and lower friction alone should make a difference.
 

TDI-rex

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Aug 30, 2014
Location
California
TDI
2015 Golf TDI S DSG
I think it's definitely going to be a while before anyone can say the long term real world economy. At only 1100 miles my EA288 hopefully has a long way to go before breaking in fully, which will hopefully mean a gradual increase in economy until then. I've seen a dramatic break-in effect on the older engine it just remains to be seen if the new one will have similar results.

I've been getting easily 50+ highway mileage which is a great start. Averages across the first couple tanks of diesel which included highway but also a lot of city driving and A/C use were around 44 and 48 I believe.
 

Mechbod

New member
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Sep 14, 2014
Location
Canada
TDI
Jetta
Hello Guys, I'm new to this forum and basically searched it as I'm on the verge of buying a 2015 VW Jetta TDI... (Havn't quite hammered out the numbers with the dealer but it is close)

Having said that, its my first time buying a VW and also first time Diesel. I have just one criteria in mind, i want longevity/reliability and good fuel economy. The good fuel economy is a given as just doing a little of research I've seen these cars truly magical mpg. But what about reliability? Will this car cost me an arm and leg to maintain?

I've heard some crazy quality issues about these Jettas. Might I also add I'm not too fond of options in my car. This is a second car and all i want is bare bones (AC/heated seats/backup camera) no fancy shamcy shenanigans ...
Any advise, any help much much appreciated.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

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'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
In 2014 VW offered what it called the "Value Edition" in the US. It was a bare bones car with the TDI. However, I don't think I've ever thought of heated seats and a back up camera as bare bones. Nor were they on the Value Edition.

Regarding reliability and cost to maintain, it probably depends on what you're used to. If you're comparing to Japanese cars, VWs are more expensive to maintain and require more service. If you're comparing to German, they're less expensive to maintain than other German cars. They aren't maintenance free, and they don't suffer neglect well.
 

Mechbod

New member
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Sep 14, 2014
Location
Canada
TDI
Jetta
Yes, I've been spoiled by my honda accord. Bought 0 km brand new in 1997. Used and abused it for 13 years. Finally sold it in 2010 with 384k Km.

The car never died on me once. Just changed the oil and minor long term maintenance.

How does the passat compare with the Jetta? frankly speaking i was very close to my deal but after reading some of the things around here about the Jettas it has scared me.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
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'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
Not going to be much different. Not like your Accord. Do some reading here and you'll get a feel for issues. Passats have had issues with turbo failures, but that may be corrected. AdBlue tank heaters were either inadequate or failing. Jettas suffered intercooler icing, but the new cars have an air to water intercooler that will prevent that. And HPFP failures are less common on the Passat, but happen on both cars.

Most important is having a good place to have the car serviced, dealer or otherwise. In the US most dealers aren't very TDI-savvy, but I gather they're better in Canada. Just keep in mind they're not inexpensive.
 

thebigarniedog

Master of the Obvious
Joined
Oct 14, 2007
Location
Fail Command (Central Ohio)
TDI
1998 Jetta tdi
Anyone out there with a 2015 VW TDI:
How is the new EA288 engine? How is the MPG in real life? Is it much better than the previous models? Any downsides to the new engine? What are your thoughts?
I never trust the numbers they put on the stickers because I had a 2000 Jetta TDI that got 50+ mpg.
Most media reviews and owner reviews are typical in that they are getting higher than EPA estimates. View the mk7 section. and vortex forum
The answer is no one knows. My concern would be that the only way to separate the usual crap from the truth is to historically evaluate claims based on prior occurrences. The data bares out that the EPA has been correct all along on prior model tdis, despite the claims of many to the contrary. This can be independently observed by looking past the hype, wishful thinking, liers and mine is better than yours by examining reporters through Fuelly.com on these prior engines.

There is no reason to expect that the next waive of this BS for this model (ie that the typical claim of "it will do better than the EPA number") will be any more correct for this model than prior numbers and prior claims made. EPA pegs the new engine at a pitiful 36 mpg combined. You should make your buying decision accordingly. As far as the hpfp is concerned, I am perhas overly optimistic that VW has finally resolved their issue.....but alas this is just a guess as well.
 

Jesus Is Lord

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Jan 24, 2014
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Hersey, MI
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2005 Passat TDI Wagon 144,000 2003 Eurovan VR6 2007 Touareg V10 TDI 158,000
Our car is rated at 34mpg combined with an auto. My dad drives fast and accelerates hard and you can't get under 38mpg. The EPA is way off when it comes to diesels.
 

Tinkertoy

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Aug 17, 2014
Location
Florida
TDI
'17 passat SEL 1.8t gasser, '13 passat se dsg
The answer is no one knows. My concern would be that the only way to separate the usual crap from the truth is to historically evaluate claims based on prior occurrences. The data bares out that the EPA has been correct all along on prior model tdis, despite the claims of many to the contrary. This can be independently observed by looking past the hype, wishful thinking, liers and mine is better than yours by examining reporters through Fuelly.com on these prior engines.
There is no reason to expect that the next waive of this BS for this model (ie that the typical claim of "it will do better than the EPA number") will be any more correct for this model than prior numbers and prior claims made. EPA pegs the new engine at a pitiful 36 mpg combined. You should make your buying decision accordingly. As far as the hpfp is concerned, I am perhas overly optimistic that VW has finally resolved their issue.....but alas this is just a guess as well.
I have a '14 passat tdi with a manual and I am getting way more mpg than the EPA rates.

In its first month and 5000 miles, I have seen 46-48 mpg average. That is on a 70/30 mix of highway/local driving. I keep it at 70 on the highway and just cruise on the local roads.

Heck, if I do 80-85 I STILL get 42 mpg average.

I know I can get to 50 average if I really tried.
I never got under 41.7. Calculated on paper


No hype, no wishful thinking ( that is what the MFD is for), no lies, and you can take the fact that my car and mileage is no better...or worse than others here.


Are you down on diesels for some reason? Did one run over your dog or something?:D
 

IndigoBlueWagon

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'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
I've tracked every fuel-up in my '12 Golf since new. Only 23K, but my average is 41.9 MPG according to Fuelly. Overall that's probably about 60% urban/suburban driving, the rest highway. I drive as fast as I can get away with on the highway, usually 75 MPH most places, more in others. Driving back from the '12 Fest I drove between 75-85 across upstate NY with the A/C on and got 47.7 MPG, my best tank. EPA highway on my car is 42, so if the EPA figures were accurate I should be seeing an average of 34-36. I don't think there's any doubt that EPA numbers are conservative when it comes to diesels, just like they're optimistic for hybrids.
 

thebigarniedog

Master of the Obvious
Joined
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Location
Fail Command (Central Ohio)
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1998 Jetta tdi
I have a '14 passat tdi with a manual and I am getting way more mpg than the EPA rates.
In its first month and 5000 miles, I have seen 46-48 mpg average. That is on a 70/30 mix of highway/local driving. I keep it at 70 on the highway and just cruise on the local roads.
Heck, if I do 80-85 I STILL get 42 mpg average.
I know I can get to 50 average if I really tried.
I never got under 41.7. Calculated on paper
No hype, no wishful thinking ( that is what the MFD is for), no lies, and you can take the fact that my car and mileage is no better...or worse than others here.
Are you down on diesels for some reason? Did one run over your dog or something?:D
What any individual driver gets or claims to get, for better or for worse, is still one driver which is hardly reflective of a representative sample to draw conclusions. My above post deferred to Fuelly on prior tdi models, since it is a greater than 1 driver result and is the only available reflective sample to compare the EPA numbers with. While others may want to argue their feelings and launch weak minded ad hominem attacks :rolleyes: the data speaks for itself. Personally, I wish VW would have delivered on their hype, but alas they apparently failed........
 

Jesus Is Lord

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2005 Passat TDI Wagon 144,000 2003 Eurovan VR6 2007 Touareg V10 TDI 158,000
What any individual driver gets or claims to get, for better or for worse, is still one driver which is hardly reflective of a representative sample to draw conclusions. My above post deferred to Fuelly on prior tdi models, since it is a greater than 1 driver result and is the only available reflective sample to compare the EPA numbers with. While others may want to argue their feelings and launch weak minded ad hominem attacks :rolleyes: the data speaks for itself. Personally, I wish VW would have delivered on their hype, but alas they apparently failed........
It is not an ad hominem attack.
It is plain experience that no one can refute.
He gave real world mpg the EPA just estimates mpg based on info the manufacturer gives them from a dino while calculating wind resistance. Ford had to lower there mpg estimates because of faulty math done with the coefficent of drag on the vehicle. Fuelly can be misleading if someone logs mpg while having an emissions component faulty such as a maf sensor.

"A man with an experience is in no way at the mercy of a man with an argument"
 

Tinkertoy

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Florida
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'17 passat SEL 1.8t gasser, '13 passat se dsg
It is not an ad hominem attack.
It is plain experience that no one can refute.
He gave real world mpg the EPA just estimates mpg based on info the manufacturer gives them from a dino while calculating wind resistance. Ford had to lower there mpg estimates because of faulty math done with the coefficent of drag on the vehicle. Fuelly can be misleading if someone logs mpg while having an emissions component faulty such as a maf sensor.
"A man with an experience is in no way at the mercy of a man with an argument"
Right on!

It seems that most people's experience here is similar to mine. We all seem to regularly exceed the EPA estimates. Heck, my uncle has a big mercedes coupe diesel and gets 40+ mpg on the highway regularly.

I will say this: when I have passengers, my mileage does drop but only about 1.5 mpg or so.
Also, if I race around in town, I can get down to about 36 on the lie-o-meter. I have to try really hard though.

I can also see that straight city traffic or shorter highway drives that have major stop and go traffic could yield the EPA city mpg readily. But it seems that people here and most in general buy vw diesels drive longer distances.

Here is some tid bits of info for you guys!

Did you know that they sell more VWs in Florida than any other region? Probably more than the rest of the US combined.

Miami is THE largest market.

I see dozens of volkswagens daily down here. The common factor? A lot of commutes in Florida are 35-40 miles one way. This is because the nicer (as in affordable, clean, safe) areas are farther away from the industrial/commercial work areas. If you want to live closer to them, you have to settle for less than desirable areas and pay more money for them as well.

Without actual data, I would guess that 40-45% of the VWs are TDIs.
I guess we are not as dumb as the rest of the country thinks?;)
 

thebigarniedog

Master of the Obvious
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Location
Fail Command (Central Ohio)
TDI
1998 Jetta tdi
It is not an ad hominem attack.
It is plain experience that no one can refute.
He gave real world mpg the EPA just estimates mpg based on info the manufacturer gives them from a dino while calculating wind resistance. Ford had to lower there mpg estimates because of faulty math done with the coefficent of drag on the vehicle. Fuelly can be misleading if someone logs mpg while having an emissions component faulty such as a maf sensor.
"A man with an experience is in no way at the mercy of a man with an argument"
When someone post "are you down on diesels Did someone run over your dog" rather than respond to the merits of the accuracy of the majority of people reporting mpg results on Fuelly, that is an ad hominem attack. The issue raised is whether the people who have reported on Fuelly are accurate in their assessments or not. My experience with owning and being around tdi's for quite a bit of time is that the EPA figures are accurate and support what I see on Fuelly. A statistical sample of a few to the contrary is hardly even an argument, but alas, I am not selling anything, and try to be objective in my assessments of such things..........
 

wxman

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Joined
Oct 26, 1999
Location
East TN, USA
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Other Diesel
When someone post "are you down on diesels Did someone run over your dog" rather than respond to the merits of the accuracy of the majority of people reporting mpg results on Fuelly, that is an ad hominem attack. The issue raised is whether the people who have reported on Fuelly are accurate in their assessments or not. My experience with owning and being around tdi's for quite a bit of time is that the EPA figures are accurate and support what I see on Fuelly. A statistical sample of a few to the contrary is hardly even an argument, but alas, I am not selling anything, and try to be objective in my assessments of such things..........
Please cite specific examples of where diesels are not significantly exceeding their official fuel mileage ratings on Fuelly, because I can't seem to duplicate what your are apparently getting. I can only find a few examples, e.g., Audi A6 TDI, BMW 535d, that are getting "only" approximately the official fuel mileage ratings, and those have relatively small sample sizes. This is even using a more appropriate drive cycle mix of 43% city/57% highway on fueleconomy.gov. From what I see on Fuelly, the VW diesels (Golf/Jetta/Passat) are exceeding the official ratings by at least 10%.

From the "My MPG" (unofficial MPG estimates from vehicle owners) results on fueleconomy.gov, the Passat TDI (AT) is exceeding the "highway" mileage all three model years (2012/2013/2014) from a sample size of >50, never mind the official "combined" mileage...

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=31585&id=32615&id=33945
 

APT

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The data bares out that the EPA has been correct all along on prior model tdis, despite the claims of many to the contrary. This can be independently observed by looking past the hype, wishful thinking, liers and mine is better than yours by examining reporters through Fuelly.com on these prior engines.
Do you have examples? Late Model Jetta diesels show the bulk in the center of the Bell Curve at 36-42mpg. Likewise the Passat at 36-44mpg lifetime averages. EPA estimates for these are 34-35mpg. That's only about 90 millions miles since 2009, so maybe statistical outliers?

OP, perhaps this owners experiences are worth following. For now, its too early to judge both FE and reliability.
 

thebigarniedog

Master of the Obvious
Joined
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Location
Fail Command (Central Ohio)
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1998 Jetta tdi
Please cite specific examples of where diesels are not significantly exceeding their official fuel mileage ratings on Fuelly, because I can't seem to duplicate what your are apparently getting. I can only find a few examples, e.g., Audi A6 TDI, BMW 535d, that are getting "only" approximately the official fuel mileage ratings, and those have relatively small sample sizes. This is even using a more appropriate drive cycle mix of 43% city/57% highway on fueleconomy.gov. From what I see on Fuelly, the VW diesels (Golf/Jetta/Passat) are exceeding the official ratings by at least 10%.
From the "My MPG" (unofficial MPG estimates from vehicle owners) results on fueleconomy.gov, the Passat TDI (AT) is exceeding the "highway" mileage all three model years (2012/2013/2014) from a sample size of >50, never mind the official "combined" mileage...
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=31585&id=32615&id=33945
Do you have examples? Late Model Jetta diesels show the bulk in the center of the Bell Curve at 36-42mpg. Likewise the Passat at 36-44mpg lifetime averages. EPA estimates for these are 34-35mpg. That's only about 90 millions miles since 2009, so maybe statistical outliers?

OP, perhaps this owners experiences are worth following. For now, its too early to judge both FE and reliability.
Please refer to Fuelly.com which I have now cited to in 3 separate postings (4 if you include this one) as support for the return on late model tdis, including the Jetta.
 

Max Period

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Dec 30, 2010
Location
Toronto Ontario Canada
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2011 Jetta Comfortline
Our cars are driven exclusivly within the Toronto area suburbs. Our Jetta gets very little highway mileage.

During the coldest few tanks during past colder-than-normal winter...
Our Jetta's consumed fuel at approximately the current EPA / revised NRCAN city ratings.
Our Camry consumed 1 more L/100km than the revised EPA+NRCAN city ratings.
 

wxman

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Location
East TN, USA
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I personally cannot find any late model TDIs on Fuelly that don't exceed the official combined EPA mileage by at least 10%, with the exception of the Touareg, which is exceeding its official rating by about 7%. Some TDIs exceed their official ratings by close to 20% (Passat TDI, Beetle Convertible TDI). The Cruze TD appears to be beating its official rating by almost 25% on there.

Consumer Reports on average is beating the official EPA ratings on diesels in its testing (by a few percent), while the gasoline equivalents of those diesel models tested are about 5% less on average than the official EPA ratings. This could change as it tests more diesel models, I suppose, but as of now, diesels in its testing are beating the official ratings overall.

A July 14, 2014, article in the Wall Street Journal ("EPA Asks Car Makers to Road Test Fuel-Economy Claims" - http://online.wsj.com/articles/epa-wants-mpg-claims-road-tested-1405355624) mentioned that while hybrids tend to underperform relative to the offical EPA ratings, diesels vehicles (in general) beat the official mileage rating by almost 5 mpg in the real world according to their analysis.

EPA itself anticipated that its 2008 revised (5-cycle) fuel mileage values would tend to significantly underestimate real-world mileage of diesels in a 2006 technical document it published. This was discussed many years ago on this site when the 5-cycle methodology was first implemented (e.g., http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?p=2148708&highlight=fuel+mileage#post2148708).
 

rotarykid

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Location
Piedmont of N.C. & the plains of Colorado
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1997 Passat TDI White,99.5 Blue Jetta TDI
Anyone tonight on the football game see the new 2015 Jetta TDI commercials?

The EPA rating on the 6pd manual trans version is now 46 mpg highway, 667 miles per tank! While that is a start it is still ~4-5 below what most will see highway in this thing!
 

VodkanDiesel

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Oct 18, 2008
Location
Washington DC
TDI
2000 Jetta TDI, 2015 Jetta SEL TDI
Anyone tonight on the football game see the new 2015 Jetta TDI commercials?

The EPA rating on the 6pd manual trans version is now 46 mpg highway, 667 miles per tank! While that is a start it is still ~4-5 below what most will see highway in this thing!

If you google "2000 jetta tdi mpg" it shows 49 mpg highway

But if you google "2015 jetta tdi mpg" it shows 42 mpg highway. That number is wrong, and it actually says 46 mpg on the car sticker.

I wonder if EPA calculated MPG numbers differently 15 years ago or if MK4 TDI's actually got more MPG?

I wonder how the real world numbers compare. I just got a 2015 Jetta TDI with the new EA288 engine. I haven't used up my first tank of diesel yet, but the highest Average Consumption that I've seen so far on the computer is 52.6 MPG.

I still need to take it on a road trip and see how many highway miles I can get out of a full tank.
 

rotarykid

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1997 Passat TDI White,99.5 Blue Jetta TDI
Yes! the current test is today less than useless for figuring out what you will actually see in any diesel auto today!!

If we still used that system the new car would be rated in the mid to high 50s mpgUS!


I personally cannot find any late model TDIs on Fuelly that don't exceed the official combined EPA mileage by at least 10%, with the exception of the Touareg, which is exceeding its official rating by about 7%. Some TDIs exceed their official ratings by close to 20% (Passat TDI, Beetle Convertible TDI). The Cruze TD appears to be beating its official rating by almost 25% on there.
Consumer Reports on average is beating the official EPA ratings on diesels in its testing (by a few percent), while the gasoline equivalents of those diesel models tested are about 5% less on average than the official EPA ratings. This could change as it tests more diesel models, I suppose, but as of now, diesels in its testing are beating the official ratings overall.
A July 14, 2014, article in the Wall Street Journal ("EPA Asks Car Makers to Road Test Fuel-Economy Claims" - http://online.wsj.com/articles/epa-wants-mpg-claims-road-tested-1405355624) mentioned that while hybrids tend to underperform relative to the offical EPA ratings, diesels vehicles (in general) beat the official mileage rating by almost 5 mpg in the real world according to their analysis.
EPA itself anticipated that its 2008 revised (5-cycle) fuel mileage values would tend to significantly underestimate real-world mileage of diesels in a 2006 technical document it published. This was discussed many years ago on this site when the 5-cycle methodology was first implemented (e.g., http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?p=2148708&highlight=fuel+mileage#post2148708).
 
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Ted Hurst

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Jul 15, 2007
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44224
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2015 GSW
The bigger question which can't be answered is how reliable will the new engine be? Fuel saving can be wiped out with just one costly repair after the warranty expires. Two stage oil pumps, three different coolant circuits, two types of dpf, Intake and exhaust flappers.
I agree 100% but, if VW pulls this off those fuel savings will pay off for Everyone involved. If not it could end up like the Oldsmobile Diesel.

With the winter months coming up it will be interesting to see how the three different cooling circuits add to the overall fuel economy.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
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'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
Yes! the current test is today less than useless for figuring out what you will actually see in any diesel auto today!!
I think you're over-stating things a bit. My Fuelly averages are:

  • 2012 Golf: 42.8 (EPA 30/42)
  • 2002 Jetta Wagon: 45.2 (EPA 42/50)
  • 1997 Passat: 47.2 (EPA 38/44 I think)
  • 1993 Mercedes 32.2 (EPA 28/33)
All but the Golf are "old" more optimistic EPA measurements. The 2002 Jetta is highly modified, so the numbers should be lower. And the Passat has always been an economy king, so that makes sense.

Long story short, with reasonable driving habits but no attempts to get exceptional economy these cars all deliver at or above the EPA highway figure, but not by a lot. Some other drivers would get more, others less. But the EPA numbers are a good benchmark.
 

wxman

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 26, 1999
Location
East TN, USA
TDI
Other Diesel
I tend to agree with rotorykid - the EPA 5-cycle fuel mileage values for diesels in general are unrepresentative to the point of being virtually useless, at least to this point in time.

They're actually much closer to being a mpg gasoline equivalent, IMHO.
 

JASONP

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Feb 24, 2008
Location
Guelph
TDI
2015 Golf TDI Comfortline 6spd
Have a look at fuelly and filter to show only 2015 Golf's, most there including myself are getting consistant milage.
Currently 4.9/100 or 48 mpg

Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk
 

Ted Hurst

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Diesl

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Dec 3, 2012
Location
Chicago
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'78 Golf Diesel (long gone); 2012 Jetta Sportwagen TDI w/ DSG
Please refer to Fuelly.com which I have now cited to in 3 separate postings (4 if you include this one) as support for the return on late model tdis, including the Jetta.
But that (fuelly.com) is what apt is linking to! The Jetta link shows a curve with the center at 39 mpg, and the Passat at 40 mpg. Isn't that higher than the EPA averages?
 
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