80,000 K TIMING BELT

I know you guys are the experts so I'll ask. I was on another site and saw some writing on a 80k tb. Is this true? I wouldn't mind so much replacing at 80k as I would at 40-50k.
Why dosen't vw use a lifetime chain? I'm sure the big rigs use a chain.

A4 (Golfs and Jettas) ALH TDIs from 1999.5 thru 2001 specify a 40/50K mile belt interval. 2002s has a 80K interval regardless of transmission. 2003s have a 100K interval regardless of tranny. I'm not sure about the PDs, but they're probably 100K belts as well.

I'm sure there has been further elaboration on this topic. Do some searching, I'm sure you'll come up with something.

Cheers,

Scott

Some have said that VW choose a belt over a chain to reduce noise. TDIs idle pretty loudly so I'm not sure how much lounder a chain would be. I'm guessing most would take the extra noise in exhange for a "life time" chain. I say "life time" because chains wear out too and aren't really "life time."

Some have said that VW choose a belt over a chain to reduce noise. TDIs idle pretty loudly so I'm not sure how much lounder a chain would be. I'm guessing most would take the extra noise in exhange for a "life time" chain.

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From what I've read, belts produce more accurate timing than chains. Chains wear over time, the links wear, there is more "slop." Belts such as the ones used by VW do not stretch over time; once the timing is propertly set, the cam and injection timing should not change.

And why does the timing have to be so exact? Probably to reduce pollution.

I have a 2001 auto and I've read it can be fitted to have the belt changed at 80K instead of the normal 40k. I think you have to get a different tensioner? I'm not sure, anyone know about this?

Both of the above are correct - what I've read is primarily the noise problem. They don't want it to sound to "diesel-y" and the clank of the chain makes it worse. Also, not to have it replaced (at 250K or so - who knows with a chain) is to ask for engine distruction.

Requiring it as a maintainance item isn't bad when you consider the consequences.

I have a 2001 auto and I've read it can be fitted to have the belt changed at 80K instead of the normal 40k. I think you have to get a different tensioner? I'm not sure, anyone know about this?

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Dan, in the early part of the 2001 model year (build date before April 2001, see driver's side B pillar for the build date of your TDI), the old-style timing belt and tensioner were used. 60k replacement schedule for 5-speeds, 40k replacement schedule for automatics.

In the latter part of 2001 (build date after April 2001, the extended-life timing belt and tensioner were used. Good for 80k miles regardless of transmission type.

In 2003, with a more robust roller (the big one) to go with the new TB and tensioner, the replacement schedule was extended to 100k miles.

If you replace your timing belt with the extended-life belt, and tensioner, and the three idler rollers, and a new water pump, you should be good for the next 100k miles.

Thanks Tornado, I will check that tomorrow! You may have just saved me a few hundred $...but don't hold your breath for a check from me in your mailbox

You may have just saved me a few hundred $

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You will pay now or you'll pay later. Doing a full and complete job is expensive, whenever it's done. But doing a partial job, and then redoing it again in 30k miles or so, is even more expensive.

I met a TDI owner who replaced his TB on schedule, then had to do it again shortly after when his water pump failed.

In the latter part of 2001 (build date after April 2001, the extended-life timing belt and tensioner were used. Good for 80k miles regardless of transmission type.

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Tornado - I have read here about the build date of April and the engine serial# over 500,000 , but I haven't found a way to double-check this or confirm it from a 3rd party. Contacting VW is like asking a blind man for directions. Can you indicate a source where this is coming from?

Tornado - I have read here about the build date of April and the engine serial# over 500,000 , but I haven't found a way to double-check this or confirm it from a 3rd party. Contacting VW is like asking a blind man for directions. Can you indicate a source where this is coming from?

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You've probably read the same threads I have.
May 2001 or later = extended-life TB (almost certainly)
March 2001 or earlier = old-style TB (almost certainly)
April 2001 = either one.

You are lucky that there are so many TB gurus in the Portland area. You need to attend a GTG. Someone will help you find out for sure.
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=835057

I only visit one other car site(saturnalia) and just started here, baisically to get some input before taking a plunge. This sounds so reasuring to have this big expense only every 80-100k.
I can tell by what I have read that this is a quality form with inteligent people that are really willing to help others out. I am sure if I buy one I'll be here for more info.
Thanks again for all your input. NOW I want a TDI.
Daryl

The 500,000 engine serial number as the change over point has been around for a while. It's not an exact number - mine has the 80/100K belt and is 493,621 made on 3/5/01.

MCA

I've had a timing chain break on my Toyota pickup - a vehicle known for it's durability. I bent some valves... it was ugly. The chain was built like a bicylce chain - light and thin. The tensioners were made of plastic yet they didn't have an inordinate amount of wear. This happened at about 120k miles, so chains don't last forever either.

I just looked at my build date, it was 7/00. So I guess it's every 40K for me

I just looked at my build date, it was 7/00. So I guess it's every 40K for me

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No. Replace the TB, tensioner, rollers and water pump with the parts in the 100k mile kit. Then repeat at 140k, 240k, 340k.....

Tornado- how much would this cost me over a regular TB change? (~$350) Any idea? Thanks

It would vary, of course. But the dieselgeek kit is $340. Figure on 3 or 4 hours of labor, maybe more. (Doing the water pump at the same time adds about 1/2 hour.) So figure on $700-800. But every part of the timing system should be good for 100k miles (assuming that the person doing the job know how to do the job right).

Or you could pay about $500 for a half-assed job.

>>how much would this cost me over a regular TB change? (~$350)<<

What do you mean by "regular" TB change?

These days, the thinking is to replace all the rollers, new style tensioner and belt, and water pump... then you can "rest" for the next 100,000 miles... (checking it occasionally!)

I'm quickly closing in on belt-change time myself... except that I had a small accident 2 days ago, and will only be driving a gas rental for a couple of weeks... at least it will delay the belt change... (until the middle of winter !!!)

All the best,

Yuri.

I had my timing belt and tensioner replaced (I hope it was the 2nd 40K belt !) at 87K miles with an 80K belt and I had the waterpump done at the same time, although at the time, nobody had brought up about doing the rest of the rollers. When it's time for the next belt, the whole enchilada package goes in - 80K TB / tensioner/ waterpump / rollers / AND serpentine belt .

And FYI - other makes have critical needs for TB changes as well - I KNOW Hondas do...

It is not just a matter of adding a timing chain and removing a rubber timing belt to the VW TDi engine.

A substantial (re)design of the engine would be required and then the engine would probably require a re-certification before it could be sold here. (Re-cert. involves running 1 (to ?) cars with the engine and having it go 120,000 miles requiring nothing more than reqular fluid/filter services. No belts. No chains. Which BTW means the VW engines with belts have gone 120,000 miles on the original belt.)

So, primiarly it is a matter of cost to VW.

Noise is secondary and frankly I've other cars with chain drives driving mulitple overhead camshafts (2 per cylinder bank) and chain noise is not even a factor.

VW (or probably VWs PR) is just blowing smoke about noise. It is cost, the cost of doing a new engine, certifying the engine, etc., that keeps VW engines in rubber timing belts.

Sincerely,

Rock Crusher (Oo.)

80K timming belt??? I just passed 55K on my 2003 Jetta TDI and I asked service manager about the timeing belt change period for this car. He said not to go too much over 60K. So I figure at my next oil change interval its time to do the belt. I did ask about a 80K belt and he said he has never heard of such a thing, VW's belts are good for 60K only.

Are you guys sure there is such a thing, the last thing I need is for the belt to go.

2003, run it till 80K. Then do the belt rollers and water pump. From 02 and on its 80K.

This has got me excited, but still a couple of questions. I figured I could buy an 98-mid 01 and change to a 80k belt system. I thought I needed to go to a PD system (03 or newer) to get the 100k belt system. Here it sounds as if I can buy any year and change over to the 100k system. I'll keep looking over this site but can hardly wait for the answer. I am looking for a auto cause I got sick of shifting my truck to go to work. The beetle would be more fun, but for how many years?
Daryl

If you put on the 80K belt from the MY2002, BE SURE TO GET THE MY2002 TENSIONER AS WELL !. And don't let the VW shop tell you that it can't be done...

80K timming belt??? I just passed 55K on my 2003 Jetta TDI and I asked service manager about the timeing belt change period for this car. He said not to go too much over 60K. So I figure at my next oil change interval its time to do the belt. I did ask about a 80K belt and he said he has never heard of such a thing, VW's belts are good for 60K only.

Are you guys sure there is such a thing, the last thing I need is for the belt to go.

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If you consult the owner's manual for your 2003 TDI, it will call for replacement of the TB at 100k miles. Not 60k, not 80k. Your service manager is hoping you will do this early; you would be foolish to do so. But when it comes time, then do the whole job, not just part of it.

This has got me excited, but still a couple of questions. I figured I could buy an 98-mid 01 and change to a 80k belt system.... Here it sounds as if I can buy any year and change over to the 100k system. I'll keep looking over this site but can hardly wait for the answer.

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You have the answer. If you want the answer from a real expert, then ask MoGolf or HermTDI or Harvieux or... I could name a few others. But you have the answer.

Well, I have given most of the replies to this thread a cursory review.

I am no expert on this topic....... but, for those of you who thought (or think) that VW built its first Diesel Engine commencing with the TDI need to know a little history.

The first (I stand corrected!) VW Diesels were built for the 1977 Rabbit ...... they had a "Timing Belt" not a chain. And, the VW gasser engines also have a Timing Belt instead of a chain. In fact, believe it or not, the Rabbit Gasser TB also fits the Ford Pinto 2.0 Liter gasser engine. The Pinto was introduced about 1970. The Pinto engine was made in Germany. So, as you can see, the belt is a proven innovation that has been around quite some time ... probably longer than many of you have been on this planet!

Now, there are lots of engines with Timing Chains...... quite running "Gasser" engines. So, I really think the "noise" theory is nothing but bunk! In simple terms, the "diesel" sound in a diesel engine comes from the explosion of the fuel as its injected into the hot compressed air in the cylinder. Each engine has its on specific sound ...... ever notice that a cummins diesel engine sounds different than a Detroit Diesel, etc.? The old style VW diesels are much louder than the TDIs! I love to crank over my Old '84 VW Jetta Diesel and listen to her clatter!

I changed the TB on my 2000 Jetta TDI at 84k. Since I purchased it used, I don't have a clue if it had ever been changed previously or whether it was a 40k, 60k or 80k belt. I replaced it with an 80k belt, as well as the tensioner ..... never changed the water pump! At 127k everything seems to be fine!

I seriously doubt that very few of you would want to tackle a "timing chain" replacement job?

So, be thankful that the TDI engine has a Timing Belt instead of a chain!

The first (I stand corrected!) VW Diesels were built for the 1977 Rabbit

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Actually... not quite.

The first VW Diesel was in one of the Beetle prototypes built after WWII, (almost certain. Can't find the magazine that had the article on it right now for the exact year.)

It was a 2 cylinder, (if I remember correctly), and is now found in the VW museum in Wolfsburg.

80K timming belt??? I just passed 55K on my 2003 Jetta TDI and I asked service manager about the timeing belt change period for this car. He said not to go too much over 60K. So I figure at my next oil change interval its time to do the belt. I did ask about a 80K belt and he said he has never heard of such a thing, VW's belts are good for 60K only.

Are you guys sure there is such a thing, the last thing I need is for the belt to go.

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Here you go...

1. Change it all - late TB & tensioner, late rollers(w/larger bearing) and WP.
2. Inspect TB at 10K mile oil change.
3. Repeat eight more times.
4. Change it all again.
5. Drive happy!

Mark