"Lifetime" ATF poll

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wensteph

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My Touareg has a towing capacity of over 7,000 pounds and I tow 5,000 + pounds 2,000 miles per year. VW says my transmission never needs service or change of fluids, in fact, my car has no dipstick nor fill tube so changes are done through the pan.

Does VW know best? Can I really tow 7,000 pounds for 200,000 miles and not toast the ATF?

What has been the experience for some of the older models with lifetime fluids?
 
bluesmoker

bluesmoker

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wensteph said:
My Touareg has a towing capacity of over 7,000 pounds and I tow 5,000 + pounds 2,000 miles per year. VW says my transmission never needs service or change of fluids, in fact, my car has no dipstick nor fill tube so changes are done through the pan.

Does VW know best? Can I really tow 7,000 pounds for 200,000 miles and not toast the ATF?

What has been the experience for some of the older models with lifetime fluids?
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change it every 100,000 kilometers, here is why

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?1064342-Heads-up-VW-Lifetime-auto-transmission-fluid-(baloney!!!)
 
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JSWTDI09

JSWTDI09

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Whenever anyone claims to have a "lifetime" fluid, my first question is always: "who's lifetime?". Are they talking about the lifetime of the car (usually under 150k miles in the US) or the lifetime of the owner (hopefully longer) or the lifetime of the transmission (aargh). All fluids wear out and/or get dirty. Therefore, the question is not if you should change it, but rather when should you change it. VW just assumes that you will sell or trade the car before it fails. Then they can make lots of money replacing the transmission for some future owner.

Have Fun!

Don
 
L

LGV2001

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On the family Touareg I change the AFT fluid at 50K miles along with the transfer case and the final drives (dif's). Also, you are lucky if the brakes last that long. The T'egg is used to pull a 26 Ft offshore boad approx 2,000 miles a year.
 
VeeDubTDI

VeeDubTDI

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VW is full of $#!7

Change your fluid! :)
 
D

Drivbiwire

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30,000 miles regardless of driving conditions!

No guessing required, just pull a sample and have it tested.

Our ML, GL get the fluid changed every 20K, all city driving.

I limit all my ATF fluid samples to a maximum of 100ppm of ANY wear metal, above that and the fluid loses its ability to protect the precision valves and other sliding surfaces.
 
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lovemybug

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2002 Red Beetle
I change my ATF fluid in my 01m every 30-35k miles. As a matter of fact, I'm overdue for a fluid change.
 
1

12MPGHWY

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I bought a BMW with lifetime fluid, around 100K, was planning to change it, the car ran and shifted perfect, but within a month the trans slipped and when it caught it blew up a drum and sent junk into the torque converter. 3800 is what I paid ZF authorized rebuild trans installed by the actual trans rebuilder, which is the only way they would waranty it.

Before I brought it in I tore into it, and the trans fluid looked like used diesel engine oil that had been mixed with brake fluid, and the pan was full of metal chunks. This was right at 101k miles, recently bmw backed off the lifetime fluid line and has re introduced 'optional' trans service at 100k, clearly that extra 1k miles was critical

let me state again that the car drove and shifted perfectly smooth, up until the moment the trans sliped up to about 5k rpm and caught with enough force to shatter the back of what I believe was the 1-2 gear drum.

IMO the reverse drum breaking in ZF trans's in BMW's and AUDI's is cause by the trans engaging hard in reverse due to worn lifetime ATF.

In the future I will use any ATF for which a reputable maker lists compatibility with either the trans, or equivalence with the oem fluid and change it every 18 month. I believe in the case of the BMW a good option castrol multi vehicle ATF.
 
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M

migbro

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12MPGHWY said:
I bought a BMW with lifetime fluid, around 100K, was planning to change it, the car ran and shifted perfect, but within a month the trans slipped and when it caught it blew up a drum and sent junk into the torque converter. 3800 is what I paid ZF authorized rebuild trans installed by the actual trans rebuilder, which is the only way they would waranty it.

Before I brought it in I tore into it, and the trans fluid looked like used diesel engine oil that had been mixed with brake fluid, and the pan was full of metal chunks. This was right at 101k miles, recently bmw backed off the lifetime fluid line and has re introduced 'optional' trans service at 100k, clearly that extra 1k miles was critical

let me state again that the car drove and shifted perfectly smooth, up until the moment the trans sliped up to about 5k rpm and caught with enough force to shatter the back of what I believe was the 1-2 gear drum.

IMO the reverse drum breaking in ZF trans's in BMW's and AUDI's is cause by the trans engaging hard in reverse due to worn lifetime ATF.

In the future I will use any ATF for which a reputable maker lists compatibility with either the trans, or equivalence with the oem fluid and change it every 18 month. I believe in the case of the BMW a good option castrol multi vehicle ATF.
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Well, the fluid DID last for the life of your transmission.

Lifetime transmission fluid. What a concept. It's like saying you always find the item you're looking for in the last place you look.
 
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TooSlick

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Even the best synthetic fluid will slowly degrade due to heat & oxidation and very gradually turn acidic. I'd change it after 100k for normal service & 50k-75k for severe service. It would be worthwhile taking an oil sample and having it tested. This will help you to determine a condition based change interval.

I'd also change the fluid if the Fe level is > 100 ppm. Above that and these very hard, abrasive particles can "bootstrap" the wear rates.

TS
 
J

jjblbi

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I'll never forget the wisdom of an older mechanic I once worked with: "grease is cheap". I change mine every 40k miles, 'lifetime' or not. John
 
oilhammer

oilhammer

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There are just too many to list....
My info states the ATF in the Aisin-sourced transmission in the 2011 T'reg is scheduled to be changed at 120k miles (which incidentally is the same interval as the Toyotas that use the same basic design unit). So it is NOT 'lifetime'.

And if you are doing a lot of towing with it, I'd probably change it more often than that. Be sure you use the correct ATF (there are a LOT of them!). Should be part number G-055-025-A2 which is ONLY for Aisin transmissions in VAG products, not the same ATF as the Jatco, ZF, DSG, etc.
 
P

pipes p

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edmonton
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2011 jetta tdi dsg
i never will never assume or believe any lubricating fluid lasts the "life" of the average vehicle. think of it as if you change fluids at an appropriate interval, you will extend the avg vehicle life.
 
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wensteph

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2011 Touareg sold to VW 2014 Audi Q5 re-programmed
oilhammer said:
... Be sure you use the correct ATF (there are a LOT of them!). Should be part number G-055-025-A2 which is ONLY for Aisin transmissions in VAG products, not the same ATF as the Jatco, ZF, DSG, etc.
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I googled that part number and it mainly shows up referencing the prior years 6 speed. Does that match with your info?
 
oilhammer

oilhammer

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There are just too many to list....
wensteph said:
I googled that part number and it mainly shows up referencing the prior years 6 speed. Does that match with your info?
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My ETKA is currently down, so I cannot verify for sure on the 2011 but it was still in use on the 2010s. You'd need to ask a VW dealer for certain.
 
D

Drivbiwire

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TooSlick said:
Even the best synthetic fluid will slowly degrade due to heat & oxidation and very gradually turn acidic. I'd change it after 100k for normal service & 50k-75k for severe service. It would be worthwhile taking an oil sample and having it tested. This will help you to determine a condition based change interval.

I'd also change the fluid if the Fe level is > 100 ppm. Above that and these very hard, abrasive particles can "bootstrap" the wear rates.

TS
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On all my sampling of the aft fluids, 30k puts right at or above the 100ppm threshold...validated and verified with every flush I do.
 
Bran Diezel

Bran Diezel

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On my 5th TDi - 2003 ALH 5spd Wagon
haha no its an auto. it lives mostly on the interstate so it really shifts like 10x a day. i just got another tdi for my wife to drive, it has 166k on it. i did a filter and fill on it just now because it felt really mushy. it was surging at 40mph, going straight to 4th gear at under 20mph with light throttle. the filter seemed to help it quite a bit, even if it was only a 1/3 of the fluid being replaced. i didn't use vw fluid either. i guess we'll see how it works out.

basically her car is my experimental car, until i get to use it for parts for my car ;)
 
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Tarbe

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So, do we have a verdict on the spec/availability of fluid for the new 8-speed Aisin?

I have been searching the net to no avail.


Tim
 
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Softrockrenegade

Softrockrenegade

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Lifetime ATF= change the fluid and trans together when it busts !!!!!
 
T

Tarbe

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wensteph said:
Per my VW dealer it's G055 540 A2
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Ok, so confirming the number OH posted above.

Thanks! I will now probably look around to see if I can find a Mobil product that meets the spec.

Never too early to start thinking about the first drain/re-fill on the tranny. By the time I hit 30,000 miles I might have the fluid on hand. :D



Edit: Whoops! OH posted G 055 025 A2 vs G 055 540 A2 per Wensteph.
Tim
 
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D

Drivbiwire

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Tarbe said:
Ok, so confirming the number OH posted above.
Thanks! I will now probably look around to see if I can find a Mobil product that meets the spec.
Never too early to start thinking about the first drain/re-fill on the tranny. By the time I hit 30,000 miles I might have the fluid on hand. :D
Tim
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LOL, you say that in jest, but with the MB's I have watched the spec change from 236.9 and now it's up to 236.14 in just over 20,000 miles.

Who knows, by the time it's due (20-30K) there will be 2-3 generations of spec changes due to various issues that crop up.

:)
 
03bora

03bora

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Softrockrenegade said:
Lifetime ATF= change the fluid and trans together when it busts !!!!!
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LMAO!...to me that's about what the manufacturer is basically telling us. My recommendation would be to change it 30k-40k miles. To me it's cheap insurance for a expensive piece of metal.:)
 
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