wiring in a trailer brake controller

alkmisc

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 3, 2008
Location
VT
TDI
2000 Jetta (6 speed)
I'm planning on installing a Prodigy brake controller and the wiring kit I'm buying comes with a couple of in-line fuses and is designed for wires to be run from the battery. I was thinking it would make a cleaner install if I took power from the bus bar underneath the relay panel. I'd wire from the terminal to an empty slot in the fuse box (and install a new fuse) and then wire from there to the brake controller and then back to the hitch.

Are there any reasons not to do it like that and to take the power straight from the battery? Also, I would assume the 75x terminal would be a fine place to tap the power from vs. a 30A terminal since the brake controller wouldn't need power when the car was parked. Thanks!
 

Thorne

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 22, 2006
Location
SF Bay Area
Can we assume you are towing something that needs brakes? With what, over what conditions, and where?

Having had smoke come off my clutch when backing up an steep incline while towing an 800lb trailer with another 300lbs of gear in my Jetta TDI, I'd sure be cautious about towing anything needing brakes with any Jetta or Passat. The Jettas are rated to tow just over 1000lbs although many of the Forumites here tow more weight.
 

alkmisc

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 3, 2008
Location
VT
TDI
2000 Jetta (6 speed)
I'm thinking of a utility trailer. I don't plan on loading enough to require brakes but it's a nice thought to have them. I've carried all manner of building materials in/on my Jetta in the past and a trailer would be more convenient and manageable. I may also look into a pop-up camper sometime in the future.

The roads are typical New England roads including some that can get a bit rough at times even though they're paved. Some are hilly, too. Occasionally I go up to the White Mountains and that's where brakes could be helpful.
 

Thorne

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 22, 2006
Location
SF Bay Area
In theory it all sounds OK, but how much weight will you be towing?

Bottom line is this -- within the rated towing limits for Jettas you shouldn't need brakes on the trailer. I'd also be concerned about how it would impact cornering. I do a LOT of towing within the weight limits (some of it in the Sierra, Siskiyou and Cascade mountains) and haven't seen the need for brakes yet on my car.



 
Last edited:

alkmisc

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 3, 2008
Location
VT
TDI
2000 Jetta (6 speed)
In theory it all sounds OK, but how much weight will you be towing?
Generally less than 1000# cargo plus trailer weight, certainly no more cargo than what I would carry in the car.

I do a LOT of towing within the weight limits (some of it in the Sierra, Siskiyou and Cascade mountains) and haven't seen the need for brakes yet on my car.
Good to know your experience in the mountains with the vehicle brakes as that's where I'd be most concerned.
 

McBrew

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Location
Annapolis, MD
TDI
2003 Golf GLS TDI, 5 speed, Silver/Grey
A mk4 Jetta/Golf can tow way more than 1,000 pounds, so long as the proper hitch is used. The European hitch (factory approved) can handle 3,400 pounds, I believe.
 

Thorne

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 22, 2006
Location
SF Bay Area
There are many aspects to towing, and a huge difference between what CAN be towed under off-street ideal conditions, what SHOULD be towed under normal highway and weather condtions, and what you are ALLOWED to tow under various State and national laws.

I've towed a 2000lb boat on a heavy trailer with a '69 Westfalia van -- but only on the flats and not far. Had to get everyone at the launch ramp to help push the van and boat up the ramp, as it couldn't pull that much angle...not an ideal tow vehicle, you'll agree. ;0 )

Curb weight on an 03 TDI wagon is just over 3k. Some states require that the (non-tractor) tow vehicle be at least twice the weight of the tow, like Oregon (so I've been told). In the UK it looks like the ratio is 2/3 vehicle and 1/3 tow.
http://www.caravanningnow.co.uk/caravanning/faqweight.htm

Limits on the Class I hitches sold for our cars here in the US is 2000lbs.

Questions like the above generate many different answers -
http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=235370

Having towed an 800lb+ utility trailer with a fully-loaded 03 Jetta wagon, I can say that it won't back the trailer up a reasonably-slanted driveway without smoking the clutch. It can pull that grade going forward unless you go too slow, then you smell clutch but no visible smoke.

And towing in Germany is a very different game, with extrememly strict inspections of equipment. From the above link -

http://forums.iboats.com/image.php?u=116459&dateline=1211403012


Re: Tow rating of a VW Jetta TDI wagon?


I keep our cars in as new condition as I possible can, and I still shake in my shoes, everytime I go to the German TUV (Safety Inspectors).

One small problem, one false word, and they pull your car off the road and take your plates. I just got my 13 year old car through it again “ohne Mangel” (no problems), it tested as new, from a safety, structural, and emissions standpoint. A week before I had already prepared myself for selling (giving it away) it to eastern Europe if it didn't pass.

The Polizei (Police) set up mobile weigh stations on the Autobahn (highway) all the time, and pull vacationers over to check their vehicles, papers, and trailers. If all is not perfect, you don't move it from the spot.

People here tow with these vehicles because they have no other choice. Not because it is a good idea.

The versions sold here also have bigger brakes, larger radiators, oil coolers, heavy duty suspensions, other computer/black box programming. The list of differences just goes on and on. This is all because of the no speed limit Autobahns.

People here drive at very high speeds for hours at a time, this requires the vehicles to be set up to different standards when compared to the same models sold in America. At 110mph you are running in the middle lane of a three lane highway, with the fast lane reserved for those pushing at times upwards of 150mph, and the right lane reserved for trucks & cars with trailers.

Even when taking all these differences into consideration, these vehicles are just not made for towing anything but small trailers. People have these small trailers because they can't have pick-ups.

They are nice vehicles, but they all have specific functions they were designed to do, and at the moment, there is not a non-commercial vehicle on the German market that was designed as a towing vehicle.
 
Last edited:

milehighassassin

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 18, 2005
Location
Fort Collins, CO
TDI
2005 Golf TDi PD, Reflex Silver
Backing up and towing are not the same. If it were me I wouldn't try to back up any heavy load, uphill. The gears in reverse are not really designed for that. Many people on here have been able to tow 2,000 lbs easily. I've towed a two place snowmobile trailer with a snowmobile from Vail to Denver and Vice Versa. I estimate the weight around 1200 lbs but it is a pretty steep grade.
 

NB_TDi

Vendor
Joined
Mar 16, 2008
Location
NB, Canada █♣█
TDI
2014 Jetta SE
I've said it before and I'll say it again...

I tow 1200lbs with no issues. No braking issues, no starting issues no any issues. If you have issues, get your car checked!! Now I would NEVER back up up-hill with a trailer, that's asking for issues in any situation. Backing up is fine, on level or down.

There is a fine line where something was designed to do a specific task, and then finding out it can do above that call. Just because the car wasn't really designed to be a towing machine; doesn't mean it can't.
 

milehighassassin

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 18, 2005
Location
Fort Collins, CO
TDI
2005 Golf TDi PD, Reflex Silver
With that said I am looking at getting a popup. I will be towing it at times with the Golf. I imagine weight will be around 2k. It does have electric brakes.

How many have wired in a brake controller? I would like to use a 5 prong wiring harness as well (actually it is needed for brakes).
 

alkmisc

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 3, 2008
Location
VT
TDI
2000 Jetta (6 speed)
milehighassassin said:
How many have wired in a brake controller? I would like to use a 5 prong wiring harness as well (actually it is needed for brakes).
I actually did after starting this thread. Of course, now that I've done that, I haven't towed anything with brakes yet. It took about a day to do all the wiring for the controller along with a powered modulite, and I installed a 4/7-way connector mounted inside the trunk (only 5 of the 7 pins are used). You have to sit down and figure out what needs to connect where before you start all of that.
 

alkmisc

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 3, 2008
Location
VT
TDI
2000 Jetta (6 speed)
milehighassassin said:
I already have a powered modulite but it is a 4-prong....
You can still use it. If you get a 5 lead plug, you just need to run 1 wire for the brake back from the brake controller. You can then just cut the plug off the modulite cord and attach the individual wires to the corresponding pin or leads of the plug. I've never seen a 5 lead modulite.

The combination 4/7 pole plug I used had a plug prewired for the 4 pole leads from the modulite plus 3 loose leads for brake, aux, and +12v. I had to run a separate wire from the brake controller to the brake lead of the plug. The other 2 leads I just left zip-tied or taped out of the way. Everything's mounted inside my trunk to the CD cubby door for a nice neat install.

I picked the 4/7 pole plug thinking that I could easily run a 4 wire extension for trailer without brakes and then, for one with brakes, I could use a 7 wire extension and adapters if necessary to get it down to 5.
 

McBrew

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Location
Annapolis, MD
TDI
2003 Golf GLS TDI, 5 speed, Silver/Grey
The 140 horsepower Jetta TDI (2010 model) is rated in the UK to tow 1,503kg, which is 3,306 pounds. That is straight from VW's website. Towing 1,000 pounds or so is a walk in the park for these cars.

Pretty much all cars carry a lower tow rating in the US (including American cars). I have been told (be people in the know) that this is mainly because we are so lawsuit-happy in this country and our legal system tends to favor people who do dumb things and get hurt.
 

Thorne

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 22, 2006
Location
SF Bay Area
Best of luck! When I lived in the UK I saw some huge trailers towed by very small diesels, so it's gotta work.

BTW, I've replaced my brake switch twice now that I've been towing, not sure what's causing it. But if any of you folks have the same issue (my glowplug light came on during the second failure), we may want to post that info here somewhere. Of course it could be a poor wiring job on my part...
 

White Crow

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2007
Location
Maine
TDI
2002 gls tdi
My Toyota 4X4 is rated 3500# max There is no way I would hook 3300# behind my Jetta! Shoot the whole damn car barely weights that. And by the way isn't reverse geared lower then first?
 

NB_TDi

Vendor
Joined
Mar 16, 2008
Location
NB, Canada █♣█
TDI
2014 Jetta SE
White Crow said:
My Toyota 4X4 is rated 3500# max There is no way I would hook 3300# behind my Jetta! Shoot the whole damn car barely weights that. And by the way isn't reverse geared lower then first?
A4 < A5

Apples and Oranges here.
 

milehighassassin

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 18, 2005
Location
Fort Collins, CO
TDI
2005 Golf TDi PD, Reflex Silver
White Crow said:
My Toyota 4X4 is rated 3500# max There is no way I would hook 3300# behind my Jetta! Shoot the whole damn car barely weights that. And by the way isn't reverse geared lower then first?
In the HD truck market they pull a lot more weight, than the truck weighs.
 

CMB430

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 22, 2008
Location
HQ of "get nothing done"
TDI
2009 Jetta TDI
My 08 F350 PSD weighed, with a full tank of fuel, me, accessories and tools around 8,700lbs. It could tow 16,000 easy. But it had load range E tires, stiff suspension, a full frame and 3.73 gears.

Comparing our VWs to trucks is true apples and oranges.
 

canuc7870

Active member
Joined
Oct 8, 2007
Location
Edmonton, AB
TDI
2000 Jetta 5spd
Hi alkmisc.

Where did you end up mounting your brake controller? I'm not planning on leaving the controller plugged in when not in use, but it would be nice to find a place for the bracket that's inconspicous, and not too hard to fish the wiring harness to.
I have one of Coleman's lightest pop ups: 1350lbs

Mike
2000 Jetta TDI 5 speed.
 

alkmisc

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 3, 2008
Location
VT
TDI
2000 Jetta (6 speed)
Down by your left knee is a fairly open area but I find that leaving the bracket there when not using it would probably be inconvenient as you can accidentally kick it when getting in or out. I tried briefly mounting it on top of the dash by the A-pillar but that would be between you and the curtain airbag so not the best solution. I have a long pigtail tucked and tied away under the dash that I can pull out and plug in to the controller when I need it. It's a little more work to get at it but it's convenient to keep things out of the way.

Ironically, I haven't towed anything that required a brake controller since doing the install and now I have a truck I can use for that (though I'm still trying to figure out how the previous owner wired that thing up).



canuc7870 said:
Hi alkmisc.

Where did you end up mounting your brake controller? I'm not planning on leaving the controller plugged in when not in use, but it would be nice to find a place for the bracket that's inconspicous, and not too hard to fish the wiring harness to.
I have one of Coleman's lightest pop ups: 1350lbs

Mike
2000 Jetta TDI 5 speed.
 

McBrew

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Location
Annapolis, MD
TDI
2003 Golf GLS TDI, 5 speed, Silver/Grey
White Crow said:
My Toyota 4X4 is rated 3500# max There is no way I would hook 3300# behind my Jetta! Shoot the whole damn car barely weights that. And by the way isn't reverse geared lower then first?
Nobody is asking you to... however, the car is perfectly capable of it. I have towed close to 2,000 pounds with my Scion xD, and it did so without a grumble. It accelerated great, handled fine, brakes well, and got more than 30 MPG on the 200+ mile trip. A Jetta/Golf TDI is a MUCH more capable tow car than my xD. Of course, I'd want to have brakes on a heavy trailer... but 2,000 pounds or less doesn't really need brakes on a car like this.

Most likely, your truck would be rated to tow more of a load in another country. For instance, the Toyot Hilux (what we call the Tacoma) is rated to tow about 5,000 pounds (2,250kg) in the UK. That's with either the 2.5L or the 3.0L engine that Toyota offers in the UK version.
 

Thorne

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 22, 2006
Location
SF Bay Area
OK I am egging some of you on
A dangerous game. Lots of drivers new to towing can make mistakes that more experienced folks can avoid.


As I mention in this thread, towing with a Jetta within legal weight limits shouldn't require brakes under normal conditions. Going beyond that may result in results that you, your insurance company or the district attorney will be happy with - not to mention potentially innocent victims on the roads.
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=210920&page=2
 
Last edited:
Top