Time to get rid of the car?

oilhammer said:

Haha, the new Escape will give new meaning to the word "aggravation" The poster child for recalls and TSBs... even worse than the Focus!

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If you had to buy a car tomorrow and your choice was a Ford Escape or a VW Jetta TDI which would you select and why?

afarfalla said:

If you had to buy a car tomorrow and your choice was a Ford Escape or a VW Jetta TDI which would you select and why?

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Why would you be limited to these two choices?

Chevy Cruze Diesel as replacement to TDI

afarfalla said:

...snip...
....but I must say Chevy Cruise diesel may be a possibility?

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2.3% Build rate was what was quoted to me at the Chevy Dealer in town.

For Every 98 Chevy Cruze gassers rolling off the line 2 were diesel powered.

Chevy/Opel have a decent track record making the engines, but, in my case , they included DARK interior, and only Auto trans.

A waste of A/C in the summer when the blazing sun hits the interior through the windows, then a Waste of the Fuel through the slush box.

It may be great for somebody, but not me.

Lots of torque, but I look long term 10 year overall , plus a $15 premium over gassers with the same fittings.

afarfalla said:

If you had to buy a car tomorrow and your choice was a Ford Escape or a VW Jetta TDI which would you select and why?

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The hands down winner would be the Ford Escape.

Why? Because the Ford folks have the patents on ethanol and gasoline blended enginges from the '20s , and they have been making this particular variant for a long time.

GE/Sylvania/Philips/Osram were making light bulbs for ~70 years or more, and it was a mature technology before the change in the regulations that banned their importation in EU/USA/CAN.

Yes, they will have 'issues'.

Its just a matter of what 'issues' I am willing to put up with.

A connector snaps a brittle copper wire, just at where the crimp is made to a 15 year, 300,000KM connection on an ABS sensor for the RF wheel is not going to keep me up at night, vs worrying whether a HPFP is going to stick as it gets plunged through a stroke that runs 2x the crankshaft speed (1800=900crank;8,000=4K).

Replacement parts for the GM / Ford / Dodge / Toyota are plentiful and salvage parts from the old 'recycling facility' are easy to come by.

Dealer indifference to the customer, Head Office Warranty support is terrible.

I would not stay long in a Dealer Showroom.

PS. Ford is starting to think out of 'standard' mode and having 'Employee Pricing' and 'Shop at Costco' discounts....

... I can go on and on...

The escape is a well crafted car, and as awkward as I feel saying this, the Ford C-max is real nice. I borrowed one when visiting family this summer for two weeks and I was impressed with its tech, comfort and economy. Just adding this info to the discussion. I am not able to buy a new car so I may keep pursuing the 09 TDI. Although if I could lease a Focus for less than $200/mo I would have a tough decision.

I own a 2014 Jetta Sedan TDI and a 2014 Ford Escape 1.6 Ecoboost. The Jetta averages 43 MPG and Escape 29 MFG. The Escape is my wife's car.

Both bought in Jan. Second Jetta TDI and second Escape. Jetta has over 16,000 miles and the Escape has over 13,000 miles.

Escape has been in once for the 10,000 miles service and a number of recalls were handled at that time. Also the was an issue with the Sync System addressed at that time.

Jetta was in for the 10,000 mile service and no other issues at this time.

I find the Jetta seats more comfortable then the Escape. In fact I thought her 2009 was more comfortable then the 2014. She is averaging about 2 to 3 mpg better in the 2014.

If the Tiguan was available here in a TDI, she would be driving one instead of the Escape. That being said, she loves he Escape and will not drive the Jetta because it is a manual transmission. She can drive a manual but she has bad knees, and just doesn't care to drive it.

When we travel, it is in the Jetta.

YMMV

afarfalla said:

If you had to buy a car tomorrow and your choice was a Ford Escape or a VW Jetta TDI which would you select and why?

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I cannot answer that question, without knowing why only those two [very different] vehicles would be my only choices. Because neither would make my top 10 choice of new vehicles. The Escape wouldn't make my top 50, but much of that has to do with the type of vehicle it is, and those same reasons would exclude the Tiguan just the same. If I wanted a Stupid Useless Vehicle, I'd find a late '80s Suburban with a 6.2L diesel and a bazillion miles on the clock. Or maybe an old Land Cruiser.

giuseppe_b said:

The escape is a well crafted car, and as awkward as I feel saying this, the Ford C-max is real nice. I borrowed one when visiting family this summer for two weeks and I was impressed with its tech, comfort and economy. Just adding this info to the discussion. I am not able to buy a new car so I may keep pursuing the 09 TDI. Although if I could lease a Focus for less than $200/mo I would have a tough decision.

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Two different model vehicles for two different drivers.

How much does each weigh?

More Weight = Harder on the fuel performance to get you accelerated up to the speed you want to get going at.

An '09 TDI has a lot of complicated EPA stuff that makes the air cleaner, but your wallet poorer, either in upfront cost or in operation of the vehicle.

If cost per month is the factor, then lease the cheapest thing you can find for the longest term you are comfortable with. You are paying the Depreciating cost as part of the lease.

Now, if overall length of time you are going to own it is >3-4 years, then you would look at ownership, and let someone else pay the depreciation cost for the first 5 years.

Pick up one that is an '05 or older TDI, and pay the discounted price for it and put the following "New" things into it ,

A)Brakes

B) Timing Belt & Water Pump

B)Shocks
C)Bearings.

and you are good to go for another 60,000 miles /100,000 km.

and laughing all the way to the bank, since you no longer have to pay 'Depreciation' fees to the bank.

Take your significant other out more often, and enjoy the ride.

For me, it will come down to between Mazda 3 GT and Ford Focus Titanium. I have not driven the Focus yet, but I expect a good ride based on various reports. The price is looking about 5K less than 3GT, both models are fully loaded with a decent leather interior. I am still concerned about he Mazda rusting .... Mazda claims to fix the long term problem, but everyone tells me, just look around and if you can find one without body rust, give me a call .... LOL

I did have a brief look at the Cruze diesel, but the Cruze is simply not built to give entertaining steering feedback and handling, nor it is a hatch. It's rather efficiency what they focused on .... fuel consumption and skinny tires. So this one is out.

OK, a minor update.

This is turning out to be a lot more difficult than I thought ... I test drove the Ford Focus today and must say that the steering wasn't bad, but not as a good as Mazda. Out of the 3 cars I'd still prefer TDI's steering feedback, no question about it. Also the suspension seems to be the right setup, at least for me ... not too stiff and not too soft, yet can soak up average Ontario road with an ease.

Power wise, it's the TDI, no contest at all. The Focus was just struggling to pick up speed, it left me totally cold.

So, at this point, I am seriously considering just driving my TDI, at least for next 3 years (emissions test will be up and DPF warranty will end by kms) and hope, it's not going to cost me big time down the road ...

It's funny, how you find yourself in niche market without even trying ....

Since you're in Canada I'd suggest getting the 2micron contain flow kit that will prevent the contaminates from a dead hpfp from contaminating the entire fuel system.

As far as what cars are worthy competitors to replace my car if I had to? Maybe the MKvii... Nothing really compares to my golf. I needed a car that had good leg/head room, Got good mileage, and had a hatchback. My 2011 MKvi fit my needs perfectly!

Regarding other choices out there:
I've had a bunch of different rentals when out of town for work...

I had a Nissan Altama few months ago and found it to be nice for head and leg room. Got some really decent MPGs on my highway trip between Louisville to Nashville and back to Louisville. I actually did that trip on one tank of gas. I averaged 75-80 on that trip. I believe the MPG gauge read 36-38mpg. Only cons is the fit and finish isn't that nice inside ans well as no hatch unless you go with the Note or juke.

Test drove a last gen Toyota corolla and simply felt that it was a dreadful car. Yeah it got good mpg and is one of the most reliable cars out there... but zero fun to drive. I don't know how the new corollas are, but they do seem pretty nice on the outside.
I did get a chance to test drive a new Camry and that seems much nicer. while still numb feeling it is at least fairly sporty for a toyota.

Fords Focus is one of my favorite small cars for short range rentals because they have a nice sporty feel to them. The Fusion defiantly ranks in my top three rental cars. The fusion hybrid was a real nice surprise too! Got a decent ~40-45mpg from albany to lake george and back again. It seemed to have a bunch of get up and go for a hybrid. It also didn't seem to loose it's sporty ness that the fusions tend to have.

I had the last gen mazda 3 a couple of times and thought it was pretty sweet. I had a brand new Mazda 3 for a day a week ago but I found road noise was pretty bad. It was however a car that makes you very aware of what's going on around you. both by sound and feel. Nice car! but just not for me.

The chevy cruze seems to have become the main rental car that i get most often. It is a pretty decent car. good mpg, great eide that blends sporty and comfy very well. It also has a TON of leg and head room. Seating position is similar to my golf. If I had to give it any bad marks it would be for the lack of rear leg room. Compared to the VW Golf interior build is a tad cheep feeling.

Just this past week I had a Jetta with a 1.8T under the hood and found it to be a very nice power plant. The automatic transmission was *meh* since it was only a slush box. But if I shifted gears myself ot shifted it into "S" mode it really seemed to tighten up the shifting. It was also one of the best 4 banger power plants I've had as a rental. Now granted I was on Long Island so I was not light footed with the gas so MPG number were not that great. I believe I had 25 or so mpg. Then again that's impressive considering the jack rabbit starts in the city and 75mph highway runs. This is a very close second fav.

My favorite RENTAL was a Hemi powered challenger that I had in California. Even had a chance to run up the PCH. I believe I managed 20-23mpg.

I agree, the Cruze I rented had kind of a cheap-feeling interior, but it drove pretty nicely. Not a bad car, I thought. One of my better rentals! Had a hard time getting uphill, as I recall.

I rented a Versa one time, and while it suited the purpose, it was not great. I guess it was functional, but felt like an economy car -- noisy, slow, etc.

We had test-driven a Focus before buying the Golf TDI. I think the Focus is worth looking into. I think the worst problem was how expensive it got when you tried to get some extras into it, but it seemed fun to drive.

When we shopped for a hatchback, we didn't bother looking at many of them just due to limited cargo size.

I had test-driven a Mazda 3 many years ago (probably around 2005?), and it was fun and sporty, but the interior seemed very cheap. I think it would be a good bang-for-the-buck deal, if you wanted a sporty ride. I appreciate the refinement of the Golf more.

I like the exterior styling of the Fusion, but my wife said she didn't like the interior --seemed cheap to her. I had an Acura TSX previously, and that had a nice sporty ride. If I were to get a sedan today, I might take a closer look at the TLX, but that's in a different price range than the other cars mentioned....

I sat in a Focus hatch but didn't drive it. I thought it would be very difficult for my 5' tall wife to see out of. Jacked up ass end, relatively small rear glass with a dropped roof line and deep seats. That wasn't my only reason for not buying one but those were some factors that jumped out at me during my 3 minute "sit in".

ATR said:

Regarding other choices out there:
I've had a bunch of different rentals when out of town for work...

I had a Nissan Altama few months ago and found it to be nice for head and leg room. Got some really decent MPGs on my highway trip between Louisville to Nashville and back to Louisville. I actually did that trip on one tank of gas. I averaged 75-80 on that trip. I believe the MPG gauge read 36-38mpg. Only cons is the fit and finish isn't that nice inside ans well as no hatch unless you go with the Note or juke.

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I drove Altima a month ago ... The steering was horribly light under all conditions and the CVT was downright disgusting. I wouldn't take Nissan even if it was free ...

ATR said:

Test drove a last gen Toyota corolla and simply felt that it was a dreadful car. Yeah it got good mpg and is one of the most reliable cars out there... but zero fun to drive. I don't know how the new corollas are, but they do seem pretty nice on the outside.
I did get a chance to test drive a new Camry and that seems much nicer. while still numb feeling it is at least fairly sporty for a toyota.

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Steering and handling is not even close to Golf and the engines are somewhat mediocre.

ATR said:

Fords Focus is one of my favorite small cars for short range rentals because they have a nice sporty feel to them. The Fusion defiantly ranks in my top three rental cars. The fusion hybrid was a real nice surprise too! Got a decent ~40-45mpg from albany to lake george and back again. It seemed to have a bunch of get up and go for a hybrid. It also didn't seem to loose it's sporty ness that the fusions tend to have.

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I had high hopes for the Ford. It handled kind of OK, but the steering is still not calibrated properly in my opinion. The biggest disappointment was the power difference ... The sales guy offered me a sweet deal on a loaded leather one, I just couldn't do it to myself, visualizing the suffering I floor the throttle pedal ...

ATR said:

I had the last gen mazda 3 a couple of times and thought it was pretty sweet. I had a brand new Mazda 3 for a day a week ago but I found road noise was pretty bad. It was however a car that makes you very aware of what's going on around you. both by sound and feel. Nice car! but just not for me.

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Yep, definitely a closest car to the Golf ... 2.5 engine, not 2.0. The huge problem is the rust. I am simply not willing to take the risk here. it seems that Mazda still has not fixed it.

ATR said:

The chevy cruze seems to have become the main rental car that i get most often. It is a pretty decent car. good mpg, great eide that blends sporty and comfy very well. It also has a TON of leg and head room. Seating position is similar to my golf. If I had to give it any bad marks it would be for the lack of rear leg room. Compared to the VW Golf interior build is a tad cheep feeling.

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Steering, handling and power is not there is just not there.


It seems to me that, I will have to replace one Golf with another (if circumstances force me), unless someone else will come up with something better or close enough.

b1jackson said:

I sat in a Focus hatch but didn't drive it. I thought it would be very difficult for my 5' tall wife to see out of. Jacked up ass end, relatively small rear glass with a dropped roof line and deep seats. That wasn't my only reason for not buying one but those were some factors that jumped out at me during my 3 minute "sit in".

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The biggest difference is the power to me. You are comparing 2.0 normally aspirated gas engine versus 2.0 TDI. Ford cannot re-write physics .... the car is a good choice for people who just want to get from one point to another and they don't care how.