bizzle
Veteran Member
Are you upset at everyone who refuses to take responsibility for your actions, or just scooter companies?
Electric vehicles (EVs), their emissions, and future viability
- Thread starter Mark SF
- Start date
- Status
Tin Man
Top Post Dawg
- Joined
- Nov 18, 2001
- Location
- Coastal Empire
- TDI
- Daughter's: 2004 NB TDI PD GLS DSG (gone to pasture)
The article says bicycles are covered but not motorized scooters by most home owners'
Nuje
Top Post Dawg
- Joined
- Feb 11, 2005
- Location
- Island near Vancouver
- TDI
- 2015 Sportwagen; Golf GLS 2002 (swap from 2L gas); 2016 A3 e-tron
"Electric vehicles (EVs), their emissions, and future viability"
Just sayin'...
Just sayin'...
kjclow
Top Post Dawg
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2003
- Location
- Charlotte, NC
- TDI
- 2010 JSW TDI silver and black. 2017 Ram Ecodiesel dark red with brown and beige interior.
I like the new VW van commercial but wonder if we will ever see it. I know it's a hype piece but you have to start somewhere.
bizzle
Veteran Member
We're going to see it this time. We've been seeing concepts of it for a good 5 years, if not longer, and now they're actually driving one around showing it off near the beaches so it's finally, actually real.
The problem isn't whether we see it, though, but that we're going to see it at $120K
turbobrick240
Top Post Dawg
- Joined
- Nov 18, 2014
- Location
- maine
- TDI
- 2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
That seems like a good way to ensure that they aren't production constrained- jack up the price so high that nobody buys them. For six figures I'd restore a classic bus and drop in a Tesla drivetrain.
kjclow
Top Post Dawg
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2003
- Location
- Charlotte, NC
- TDI
- 2010 JSW TDI silver and black. 2017 Ram Ecodiesel dark red with brown and beige interior.
For that price, it ought to come with it's own driver.
bizzle
Veteran Member
I don't have any information about the pricing, but I was thinking that it would come in around 80-90K and that wouldn't surprise me compared to current SUV, CUV, and Tesla pricing. I believe my Touareg MSRPd around 60K in 2015. I think the Niro we looked at last year was around 45K sticker.
But then someone posted that they've seen some info and the pricing was going to be eye-popping or something along those lines so I added another 30-40K to my estimate. I'm not even sure 120K is an eye-popper to some people, unfortunately. You add up all the tangibles and intangibles, throw in a half century of nostalgia as a tailwind, and we'll be lucky to buy one let alone worry about the price for quite a while.
But then someone posted that they've seen some info and the pricing was going to be eye-popping or something along those lines so I added another 30-40K to my estimate. I'm not even sure 120K is an eye-popper to some people, unfortunately. You add up all the tangibles and intangibles, throw in a half century of nostalgia as a tailwind, and we'll be lucky to buy one let alone worry about the price for quite a while.
Lightflyer1
Top Post Dawg
Sounds like a good way to not sell many to me. The best way to kill sales is to price it out of reach of the average person. $120k for a car is just ludicrous. My Passat was $32k and I thought that was high. For $120k you could rebuild any car you want and have money left over.
ToxicDoc
Veteran Member
But that $120K is for a "luxury" car. The new model is much cheaper (about 1/3 of the price), albeit smaller.
turbobrick240
Top Post Dawg
- Joined
- Nov 18, 2014
- Location
- maine
- TDI
- 2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
Tesla Bjorn and some friends just set a world record by driving an EV (model 3) 1725 miles in 24 hours! The road trip argument against EV's is losing relevance. I personally like to turn in for the night after around 800-900 miles of driving.
Tin Man
Top Post Dawg
- Joined
- Nov 18, 2001
- Location
- Coastal Empire
- TDI
- Daughter's: 2004 NB TDI PD GLS DSG (gone to pasture)
Sounds like it turns into an adventure like a road rally or dungeons and dragons to find the right combination of road, charging stations, and ancillary services. I can see myself doing this especially when there is time to stop on the way. Prefer 4 hours at a time anyway....
turbobrick240
Top Post Dawg
- Joined
- Nov 18, 2014
- Location
- maine
- TDI
- 2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
I believe they did the driving on the german autobahn. It does seem like a much more fun record than some boring hypermiling challenge. I wonder at what point efficiency and speed balance out. I suppose it all comes down to the charge rate.
Tin Man
Top Post Dawg
- Joined
- Nov 18, 2001
- Location
- Coastal Empire
- TDI
- Daughter's: 2004 NB TDI PD GLS DSG (gone to pasture)
41 Inconvenient Truths on the "New Energy Economy"
IT "experts" predicting BEV solutions being similar to improved efficiencies in information tech are "like comparing apples to bowling balls:"
https://fee.org/articles/41-inconvenient-truths-on-the-new-energy-economy/?utm_source=zapier
My feeling is that future CO2 sequestration tech has more of a chance than eliminating "fossil fuel generated CO2" in energy-based economies of scale but I dunno....
IT "experts" predicting BEV solutions being similar to improved efficiencies in information tech are "like comparing apples to bowling balls:"
https://fee.org/articles/41-inconvenient-truths-on-the-new-energy-economy/?utm_source=zapier
My feeling is that future CO2 sequestration tech has more of a chance than eliminating "fossil fuel generated CO2" in energy-based economies of scale but I dunno....
Last edited:
Tin Man
Top Post Dawg
- Joined
- Nov 18, 2001
- Location
- Coastal Empire
- TDI
- Daughter's: 2004 NB TDI PD GLS DSG (gone to pasture)
THE “NEW ENERGY ECONOMY”: AN EXERCISE IN MAGICAL THINKING
I think diesel looks good so far for now....
Last edited:
compu_85
Gadget Guy
A new VW microbus has been "coming soon" for the past 15 years. I'll believe it when I see it.
And if it does happen, I hope they've improved their energy efficiency compared to the eTron. With the Audi getting <2 mi/kWh, I'd think a brick shaped bus would do similar... which would set the car up to fail in the market.
-J
Lightflyer1
Top Post Dawg
Solar charging may get a boost if this new tech works out. 80% efficiency instead of 22% are the claims.
https://phys.org/news/2019-07-carbon-nanotube-device-channels.html
"Naik said adding the emitters to standard solar cells could boost their efficiency from the current peak of about 22%. "By squeezing all the wasted thermal energy into a small spectral region, we can turn it into electricity very efficiently," he said. "The theoretical prediction is that we can get 80% efficiency."
Nanotube films suit the task because they stand up to temperatures as high as 1,700 degrees Celsius (3,092 degrees Fahrenheit). Naik's team built proof-of-concept devices that allowed them to operate at up to 700 C (1,292 F) and confirm their narrow-band output. To make them, the team patterned arrays of submicron-scale cavities into the chip-sized films."
That would amount to 1/4th of the panels currently used for the same power.
https://phys.org/news/2019-07-carbon-nanotube-device-channels.html
"Naik said adding the emitters to standard solar cells could boost their efficiency from the current peak of about 22%. "By squeezing all the wasted thermal energy into a small spectral region, we can turn it into electricity very efficiently," he said. "The theoretical prediction is that we can get 80% efficiency."
Nanotube films suit the task because they stand up to temperatures as high as 1,700 degrees Celsius (3,092 degrees Fahrenheit). Naik's team built proof-of-concept devices that allowed them to operate at up to 700 C (1,292 F) and confirm their narrow-band output. To make them, the team patterned arrays of submicron-scale cavities into the chip-sized films."
That would amount to 1/4th of the panels currently used for the same power.
bwilson4web
Well-known member
The team ran laps between two, 3d party, high-speed, DC chargers with higher charge rates than Tesla SuperChargers. Each segment charged to just 50% which is a Tesla technique to maximize charging rate. Back of the envelope, the team were running ~90 mph on the Autobahn. I don't know how much their charging sessions cost.
For USA trip planning, the trip time as a function of cruise speed and charging follows this graph:
So I validated the model in a round trip, benchmark between Athens AL and Nashville TN:
- 85.5 mi each way, 171 mi total
- 73 mph cruise speed gave 61.3 mph trip speed with charging
- 26 min charging for $7.18 SuperCharger costs
- 2:20 min driving at 73 mph
A gas/diesel car will travel the same distance with faster refueling, ~5 min., than the Model 3 charging, ~13 min. But compared to our former Prius, the Model 3 is cheaper to operate. The Model 3 also has dynamic cruise control and steers within the lane. The car does +90% of the driving.
Bob Wilson
turbobrick240
Top Post Dawg
- Joined
- Nov 18, 2014
- Location
- maine
- TDI
- 2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
You won't have to settle for just good and cheap for long. The model 3 is capable of much faster charging at the V 3 superchargers that are beginning their rollout.
German_1er_diesel
Veteran Member
Yes, but if you go fast, the battery will be too hot for fast charging.
rotarykid
Top Post Dawg
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2003
- TDI
- 1997 Passat TDI White,99.5 Blue Jetta TDI
you also loose charge in a shorter distance from the load created by required battery cooling systems, especially in hotter weather.....that is charge lost off the top of what is available for use to prevent battery damage leading to shorter service life span....
bhtooefr
TDIClub Enthusiast, ToofTek Inventor
FWIW, their target speed was 170 km/h, which is about 105 MPH. However, they had issues with weather and traffic that slowed their average speed down.
Lightflyer1
Top Post Dawg
Didn't I read here somewhere that fast charging also shortens battery life.
tikal
Veteran Member
From what I read for the Kia Soul EV, stay below 70 MPH and avoid at all cost to do fast charging to get the most life out of the batteries (perhaps close to 10 years is possible). I wonder how Kia will handle the 10 year battery life if they suspect the owner is speeding and/or fast charging often. How would they know to deny warranty and claim 'operator error'.
03TDICommuter
Veteran Member
Guessing they could have bin counters in flash that would store 'interesting' events.
oilhammer
Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Yep, all that is easily recorded. Just like the Bosch EDC in the Cummins engines records idle time and the like.
El Dobro
Top Post Dawg
DC charging does that, but usually most charging is done at home or work with AC charging.
compu_85
Gadget Guy
Not with a Model 3, it's got a much higher capacity cooling system than the S / X.
-J
ToxicDoc
Veteran Member
It's taken 50 years to get to mid 20%. While even 50% would be nice, I'm not holding my breath for it in my remaining lifetime.
turbobrick240
Top Post Dawg
- Joined
- Nov 18, 2014
- Location
- maine
- TDI
- 2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
Closer to 150 years, but look at the progress in the last 20 years. Efficiency has gone way up, while the cost has come way down. The top tech often starts out in space programs, then finds its way into consumer applications. Apollo 11, 50 years ago today! Now mankind is nearly prepared to step away from fossil fuels.
- Status