What you have to do is do tests that are done before total failure. You have to get enough testing done to catch the development of problems before total failure.I do failure analyses on marine propulsion systems as part of my business. Often an analysis has been sub'd out to a metallurgy lab with an electron microscope. Rarely does that reveal anything worthwhile. Failed bearings are so chewed up that any hints of a cause are lost. Dimensions can't be verified, hardness has changed, surface finish lost, etc. Sometimes the report ends up stating "for some reason the bearings ate themselves", although I have to use somewhat different wording if I want to get paid.
Picking through a failed HPFP will likewise probably not reveal a cause.
But if anyone has a failed pump they want to send me, I'd love to go through it!!
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Here is the same statement by VLS GUY. He just calls it "in a time series". Investigation must be done in steps. Since there are failing HPFPs the testing must be done. If one person loses waranty that is a small price to pay for a solution. Of course I do not want to go buy a car for testing LOL. But, you never can tell when one may be donated.The ultimate situation is to do inspections on a few HPFP's in a time series. Unfortunately we seldom get this sort of data in failure investigations.
As far as rebuild parts are concerned, as your VW dealer or better yet talk to DFIS.
Here is a statement which I suppose says. Try a modification and after a time check re-check, and see how it is doing (wear patterns, metal analysis etc)I would not think the HPFP is worth rebuilding. I would be using the rebuild procedures to arrive at procedures to conduct the failure investigation.
I agree that Lubricity is evident on the cam/ roller interface. We also must determine if is lubricity problem for the fuel or the metal being used for either the cam or roller is the problem. Poor material design choice or bad process quality control during manufacturing could be the problem. In other words besides looking at diesel fuel quality the metallurgy of the parts need to be looked at as well.
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Is this a total failure? Does rotation occur early or late in the failure?On the samples I have had here, it really looks like the roller/piston somehow cocked sideways in its bore. The cam has a severe wear spot right in the center.
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I do think demonstrating correct modifications that work might get some attention from owners and possibly VW.I don't think Bosch would take kindly to some upstarts telling them that their design has problems. This particularly true since they have several dozen computer simulations and lab run time telling them this just shouldn't happen. Never mistake a simulation or the lab for actual operating conditions or problems like this result.
Bosch likely was asked to come up with a cheap, compact design and this pump was the result.
One thing I was wondering about: If the pump gets warmer than it should what does cooking the diesel fuel do to the lubricity of the fuel and those lubricity additives to the fuel particularly after shutdown? Anyone know?
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Veteran Member nhdoc
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Nashua, NH
TDI(s): '10 Jetta TDI Cup
The first rule of product design is to design a product robust enough to operate under the conditions it is likely to encounter in the field. Any product which doesn't meet that goal will likely have very high rates of failure in the field and I believe this is what VW has with the HPFP design. It has no factor of safety built into it and was designed so close to the edge of failure that encountering fuel in the field which isn't "flawless" is probably causing many of them to self-destruct. But that's not our problem as owners, it is their problem. I have said this before, but fuel in the field is very often contaminated with water, low concentrations of gasoline, rust, dirt, dust, grit, grime, whatever. If not we wouldn't need fuel filters at all. VW knows this, they have been making diesel cars for decades and know sometimes fuel isn't perfect. In the past the systems have been robust enough to "absorb" the issue, usually without the owner even realizing there was less than perfect fuel in his car.
Even when accidentally refueled with gasoline older systems were robust enough to be able to be drained and refilled with no long term consequences.
Great post at the end of a locked thread.
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If I missed a person who has gotten this all together excuse me.
So two main HPFP approaches?
1... Modify, test, and eventually improve the stock design units.
2... Ask for a heavy duty replacement from VW.
I think dweisel might have hit on one design improvement. Install a bronze (or other material) sleeve in the HPFP roller housing assembly bore.
This all does not mention the level of additives to bring the fuel up to spec. so a stock HPFP would survive. This also does not mention the level of additives to protect in case of mixed fueling using a stock pump. A level probably beyond reason, and a level that would overpower the exhaust treatment and not be possible.
The final solution is to improve the pump some and find a legal and accepted additive package. IMHO
eddif