Bottom end blow out

spatuality

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2010
Location
Ontario, Canada
TDI
2006 1.9L Jetta BRM MKV 5MT
Hi forum,

Short version:
The bottom end of my Jetta clunked a few times and dropped what smells like transmission fluid everywhere.

Useful info:
2006 1.9L BRM 5M. 250k KM. Stock clutch/dmf has been rattling at idle for a couple years. Slight slipping of clutch felt a couple times this year. Transmission fluid changed at 236k KM in May with Fuchs Titan Sintofluid FE 75w. Slight clunk felt when foot off accelerator in 2nd for the last year, but figured it was LCA bushing, maybe an engine mount. Never had a leak of any kind.

Long version:
Wife was out with the car, put it into neutral stopping at a light, and there was a big clunk, like when you drop the clutch in gear while holding the brake. But the enginge did not stall. No hiccups with the engine at all she says. Not even an engine light. Put the car into first, couldnt make it move. Shut it off/on 3 times, still wouldnt move. Blocking busy intersection at this point, and freaking out she called me. The car had been off for a couple minutes at this point. I had her start it, it went into gear, and she drove the 3KM home without issue.

Parked in the driveway, and saw fluid dripping steadily behind the bottom engine cover. Started it up no problem, reversed a few feet, putting it into first felt 'empty', like the clutch wouldnt engage. It clunked and I put the clutch in again, then genty let the clutch out in first, and drove it 20m into the garage.

Car is now on jackstands, oil absorbant powder and oil drain pan under it. I will get under it in a couple hours to pull off the engine tray.

I'm making a guess the DMF failed and the clutch wont engage on the bits that are left. There must be some transmission lines inthe bell housing that got hit with shrapnel? But the engine is running normally. Not even CEL. I would of thought it would shake and shudder like crazy, or rattle very noticably.

Any initial direction where to look to figure out what happened?
 
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spatuality

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2010
Location
Ontario, Canada
TDI
2006 1.9L Jetta BRM MKV 5MT
With all the fluid coming out, what else likely got hit to cause a leak?

Just a seal somewhere, or bent / pierced something?

Just trying to plan for what to order.

I figured a SMF, clutch, throwout bearing, fork, and now I guess transmission fluid.

Maybe a rear main seal now too? Hopefully the shaft isnt bent...
 

banshee365

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 4, 2012
Location
FL
TDI
06 Jetta
If you had a catastrophic flywheel failure it’s possible that’s your trans case is cracked which is where all of the fluid is coming from.
 

aja8888

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 25, 2007
Location
Texas..RETIRED 12/31/17
TDI
Out of TDI's
You really need to take it apart to assess the damages before ordering anything. The transmission case could have been compromised or a shaft seal is leaking. The bell housing could be damaged also.

There would be no engine codes indicated since it's a manual transmission. Most codes are emission related anyway.
 

legendman

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2004
Location
19
TDI
2006 Jetta 5sp
Just did mine and looked the same, the followers had dishes in them.
Went with the ID parts billet cam and used the myturbodiesel writeup.
 

spatuality

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2010
Location
Ontario, Canada
TDI
2006 1.9L Jetta BRM MKV 5MT
Sitting on the engine tray is shrapnel.

Theres a hole matching the shrapnel on the right rear lower side of what I guess is the transmission bell housing?

I just noticed the picture looks like there's 2 holes. I'll have to get inder here again later to see.

Pictures below.

Is this bell housing replaceable, and the internals cleanable?

Costs are probably about to exceed resale value...





 
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spatuality

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2010
Location
Ontario, Canada
TDI
2006 1.9L Jetta BRM MKV 5MT
Thanks for the quick replies everyone. You're awesome.

So if the shaft isn't bent, a new SMF, clutch, throwout bearing, fork, transmission fluid and all the replacement bolts a clutch kit comes with.

A used 5sp transmission. I'm guessing a gasket of some kind and a few more bolts.

Maybe a rear main seal and crank position sensor while I'm in there.

It's got the brm cam shaft and lifter tick, and a bit of oil escaping the turbo.

Is there a reliable source of rebuilt transmissions for this car? Or pointers to know if a used one is ok? Worth sticking in a 6sp and/or LSD diff while I'm in there?
 

spatuality

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2010
Location
Ontario, Canada
TDI
2006 1.9L Jetta BRM MKV 5MT
It's not worth trying to clean out whatever is inside that bell housing? Too likely to have metal bits all over it? Housings aren't available in their own?

Just trying to wrap my head around options for this few thousand dollar repair.

Or maybe it's time to part out what's left and move on.
 
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banshee365

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 4, 2012
Location
FL
TDI
06 Jetta
I would replace the trans and cam and keep driving. If your followers are making nosie you are well beyond needing a cam and arguably oil pump.

And don’t touch the rear seal if it’s not leaking. It requires an expensive special tool to install
 
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tactdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2010
Location
North Carolina
TDI
2005.5 Jetta
Look into a 6SP manual transmission swap. I did, for a little more money than sourcing a used transmission,
I purchased a kit from one of the vendors that posted conversion kits in the Vendor forum. Included everything but transmission
and brake fluid.

While I had the transmission out, I replaced the EGR Cooler, much easier to get to all the bolts and
coolant hoses with the trans out.
 

spatuality

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2010
Location
Ontario, Canada
TDI
2006 1.9L Jetta BRM MKV 5MT
Look into a 6SP manual transmission swap. I did, for a little more money than sourcing a used transmission, I purchased a kit from one of the vendors that posted conversion kits in the Vendor forum. Included everything but transmission
and brake fluid.
Can you please let me know who you got the swap kit from? Interested.

I might take this opportunity to throw in a 6sp and a lsd diff to cure the 1 wheel drive.

Even more interested in a reliable source for a transmission, and tips on how to know its any good before installation.
 

tactdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2010
Location
North Carolina
TDI
2005.5 Jetta
I ordered the conversion kit from Darkside Developments in the UK

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=373687

It does sound unusual to order the kit and parts from the UK, pay shipping, and wait, but the price was really not that far off sourcing items locally.
In my area, I would have to drive several hours to a recycle yard to pick up the transmission, may have had to source out the drive axles from a different yard,
order a new clutch and flywheel (SMF), and some misc bolts. Made sure I got the transmission mounts and shifter bracket, clutch lines, and starter from the recycle yard.

I am happy with the parts they supplied, yes, it was a leap of faith with them on the quality of the transmission. They did ship the transmission drained of fluid, their reasoning being, to help prevent a leak/mess during shipping, and to allow them to check the condition of the fluid, about the best anyone can do without opening up the gearbox.

They stood behind their products, when the shifter end to the transmission was too large, they sent another of the correct size, and when the CV joint was bad (only could tell once installed on the car and driven), they supplied a new joint for the drive axle.

Car drives and shifts great, I am waiting for the warmer weather and summer fuels to figure what the 6th gear gets me for MPG.

If you go with a 6SP upgrade, a few pointers.

The shift cable locating bracket on the transmission is different than the 5sp, you will need the 6sp bracket

You can reuse the 5sp cables and maybe the cable ends (depends on the size of the shifter pins on the 6sp trans).

The Golf Club shifter and secondary shifter on top of the trans is different between the 5sp and 6sp, obviously you will need the parts from the 6sp

Transmission mounts are different between the 5sp and 6sp, but the 6sp bolts to the chassis, just uses different size bolts.

The 6sp uses a clutch slave cylinder inside the transmission, you will not need the 5sp clutch slave, but you can make the clutch lines connect to the 6sp by straightening them out, or you can use the 6sp lines from the clutch master.

Read up on how to bleed the 6sp clutch slave, one suggestion I found was to fill the internal clutch line with fluid and cap before installing the transmission, helps to make the bleeding the air out easier.

Remove the output flanges on the 6sp transmission and plug the holes with a paper towel, prior to installing the transmission, helps to maneuver the trans around the control arm mounting points.

While the transmission is out, if the EGR cooler is leaking and needs replacing, now is the time to replace it, makes it much easier with the transmission and drive axles out of the way.
 

Ol'Rattler

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 3, 2007
Location
PNA
TDI
2006 BRM Jetta
Useful info:
2006 1.9L BRM 5M. 250k KM. Stock clutch/dmf has been rattling at idle for a couple years.
Not even CEL.
You drove it until the DMF failed even though you were given 2 years of fair warning. If it was the differential that failed the car would not move.

If you are going back with a SMF do not put a 6 speed in it. The syncros in a 6 speed are fragile and will not hold up well to a SMF. Besides that, there is no real advantage to having one more gear except if you just like to shift more often. The 5 speeds syncros do hold up very well to a SMF.

Why would a grenaded DMF set a CEL? There is nothing on the tranny or clutch that the ECU monitors.
 

spatuality

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2010
Location
Ontario, Canada
TDI
2006 1.9L Jetta BRM MKV 5MT
I ordered the conversion kit from Darkside Developments in the UK

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=373687
Thanks for the detail. This is super useful to know.

I knew about Darkside as a performance and turbo company, but I'll have a look at their transmission options.

I found a local mechanic that has a 5sp for $650 cad. Still have to wait on clutch, flywheel, and bolts, and it's more expensive than shipping a transmission from the UK. Probably won't get this local one.
 

spatuality

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2010
Location
Ontario, Canada
TDI
2006 1.9L Jetta BRM MKV 5MT
You drove it until the DMF failed even though you were given 2 years of fair warning.

If you are going back with a SMF do not put a 6 speed in it. The syncros in a 6 speed are fragile and will not hold up well to a SMF.

Why would a grenaded DMF set a CEL? There is nothing on the tranny or clutch that the ECU monitors.
It was an occasional extra tick or rattle sound that wasn't consistent. More when it sat idle for a long time in traffic like at a border crossing. It would go weeks without a sound. Definitely not like a couple of the videos I've seen that rattle like a bag of marbles. A flywheel replacement was coming, but it didn't look like an explosive finale was so close.

Interesting info about the 6sp. They don't have the sam dmf issue, and get converted to smf?

Cel info just for completeness. In looking at other catastrophic failure threads, it looked like one of the most common questions.

Thanks for the info. Keep it coming!

This is all new to me, and exceptionally helpful. I know theres other similar threads, but it always feels different when its you. :)
 

turbocharged798

Veteran Member
Joined
May 21, 2009
Location
Ellenville, NY
TDI
99.5 black ALH Jetta;09 Gasser Jetta
You drove it until the DMF failed even though you were given 2 years of fair warning. If it was the differential that failed the car would not move.

If you are going back with a SMF do not put a 6 speed in it. The syncros in a 6 speed are fragile and will not hold up well to a SMF. Besides that, there is no real advantage to having one more gear except if you just like to shift more often. The 5 speeds syncros do hold up very well to a SMF.

Why would a grenaded DMF set a CEL? There is nothing on the tranny or clutch that the ECU monitors.
According to the picture, that is a classic diff cross pin walk out failure. Been happening on VW 5 speeds for many years. There is a roll pin that holds the spider gear pin in and sometimes it shears and the pin comes out and punches a hole into the transmission.
 

Ol'Rattler

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 3, 2007
Location
PNA
TDI
2006 BRM Jetta
According to the picture, that is a classic diff cross pin walk out failure. Been happening on VW 5 speeds for many years. There is a roll pin that holds the spider gear pin in and sometimes it shears and the pin comes out and punches a hole into the transmission.
My bad then. Sure explains why the OP didn't hear the classic sounds of a DMF heading for failure.
 

Mike_04GolfTDI

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 19, 2003
Location
Richmond, BC, Canada
TDI
Mine: 2019 Golf R DSG, Wife's: 2015 Golf Comfortline TDI
With all the fluid coming out, what else likely got hit to cause a leak?
Transmission input shaft seal, or a cracked gearbox.

Edit: Now that I've seen the picture, I guess the fluid is coming out of the gaping hole.

A welder could probably fix that, if nothing else is wrong. Or you just need to put a used transmission in it.
 
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spatuality

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2010
Location
Ontario, Canada
TDI
2006 1.9L Jetta BRM MKV 5MT
I replaced the transmission with a scrap yard unit.

New smf and clutch also.

There was metal bits everywhere inside and outside the transmission.

Just too many possibilities for future problems. Though I'm sure there's a few parts in there that are usable.

Now I'm trying to figure out why the clutch pedal is clicking to the floor with no hydrolic pressure: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?p=5408786#post5408786

Anyone want a transmission 'core'? Near Toronto.
 
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