Mixing unleaded with Diesel in 2012 Jetta TDI

Lightflyer1 · Feb 8, 2013

tdiatlast said:
IIRC, HPFP complete repair is closer to $8k...some have even reported lower at indy shops...

I find it interesting that this dilution did not cause a failure. Many here have felt that even a few drops of RUG would be enough to destroy an HPFP. Hmmm...

JM Popaleetus and I had this discussion in my other thread. He said:

JM Popaleetus said:
And from what we've seen from past failures, and the levels of PSI that our HPFPs run at, no. Any lubricity or contamination issues enough to damage our PSI is going to damage it catastrophically. There really isn't any middleground here.

Yet here is half a gallon mixed in, driven on, and the consensus is not to worry. According to JM you would think a hpfp failure is bound to happen before the tank is empty.

SilverGhost · Feb 8, 2013

JM Popaleetus said:
Actually, the average repair bill for a catastrophic HPFP failure is ~$10,000.

You're wrong. The threadstarter was lucky the dilution amount was so little as to not affect anything.

Last customer that had this failure (oh, and that is a story in itself

) the quoted repair with parts and labor was $6,678. That was to repair the system per ElsaWeb in their mis-fueling repair guidelines. And this was quoted at a dealership.

I believe anything that lowers the lubricity below the damage point of the weakest part in the HP pump is bad. Whether that is water, gas, kerosene, waste oil, whatever.

Lightflyer1 said:
Yet here is half a gallon mixed in, driven on, and the consensus is not to worry. According to JM you would think a hpfp failure is bound to happen before the tank is empty.

I respect to the above quoted repair, the customer filled with gasoline and drove the whole tank out. That was sometime the last summer. It only now came into the dealer with a failed HP fuel pump (and the fuel reeks of gasoline again). The car saw several thousand miles after initially mis-fueling. Either he had a strong built pump, was very lucky, or this is more to this.

Jason

Conrad -JSW · Feb 8, 2013

Phrankentruk said:
Seriously? Where do you buy 2 stroke oil by the liter? That would treat a serious amount of gasoline.

To all the people that post something like, "I would have stopped right away" or, "You have to be careful", or "we all know this", these posts are offensive at worst and entirely unhelpful at best. Especially the last one. We all know it's bad to put gas in your diesel car (duh!), but do we all know where the line is of when we can run it & when we need to drain the tank? I think not. I certainly didn't until I, like the OP, got on the phone/web to check it out.

I am a gear head and really into all of my engines and I managed to do this as well. Exactly the same story with the green handle and all. I have 4 VW's so it's easy to drift into autopilot & not realize that this particular station has a different fuel coming out of the diesel-colored handle. And it's even worse than that, it was premium so it was separated - 3 handles, space, last green handle.

Mine is a 2003. I put in just under a gallon. I drove to the other side of the station & filled up with diesel. Then I filled it several times over the next few days to keep upping the ratio of diesel.

The real crime is that we have pumps that are designed so that you can cause major damage to your car from such an innocent mistake. And it doesn't have to even be you doing it. Service station attendant (New Jersey, I'm talkin' to you), other family members that don't drive that car much, lending your car to someone, etc. I just let my mom & step-dad drive our TDI for a couple of weeks & had a low-grade fear over this. It's just a stupid situation. Even if the pumps don't change, it wouldn't be that hard to design a system in the filler neck that wouldn't let you insert the smaller nozzle. Where are the VW engineers on this? And it's going to become more of an issue as more people drive diesels. Of course we'll all be going electric before too long so...

The best thing I've come up with is to paint the fuel cap red & use a Sharpie to write "Diesel!" on it. But this has caused me to go looking and guess what? They have green fuel caps that say "Diesel Fuel Only" on them. You can even get one with a lock so you can lock when you lend the car out. Put the key in the glove box with a big "Diesel" car attached to it. Notice it's green...like the pump...that wasn't diesel...

Where do you buy 2 stroke oil by the liter? Just about anywhere. I have gallon jugs of it for use in my snowmobiles.

As for being on 'autopilot' and putting RUG in instead of diesel? That's the problem with so many folks. Driving around on autopilot and not paying attention to what they're doing. I've been driving a diesel since 2003 and not once have I even come close to reaching for the RUG pump handle when filling up. For the life of me I just can't understand how someone could confuse the two.

loco_unoTDI · Feb 8, 2013

I did this once here in North Florida on my 1986 Toyota Camry Turbo Diesel. UGh, I admitted it. All the diesel handles are green around here, well the gas station I came to had a seperate pump with a green handle. I filled up not knowing it was E85. Needless to say it took about a mile down the road before all power was lost, white smoke plumed from my tailpipe, and it was overheating. I limped it to the next exit at 20mph on the side of the highway, not knowing I had not put diesel in it. I had the car fixed at a diesel truck stop repair shop. They just drained the tank and new fuel filter, all was good.

I have never done that in my TDI. Never will.

Chris Tobin · Feb 8, 2013

Phrankentruk said:
Seriously? Where do you buy 2 stroke oil by the liter? That would treat a serious amount of gasoline.

To all the people that post something like, "I would have stopped right away" or, "You have to be careful", or "we all know this", these posts are offensive at worst and entirely unhelpful at best. Especially the last one. We all know it's bad to put gas in your diesel car (duh!), but do we all know where the line is of when we can run it & when we need to drain the tank? I think not. I certainly didn't until I, like the OP, got on the phone/web to check it out.

I am a gear head and really into all of my engines and I managed to do this as well. Exactly the same story with the green handle and all. I have 4 VW's so it's easy to drift into autopilot & not realize that this particular station has a different fuel coming out of the diesel-colored handle. And it's even worse than that, it was premium so it was separated - 3 handles, space, last green handle.

Mine is a 2003. I put in just under a gallon. I drove to the other side of the station & filled up with diesel. Then I filled it several times over the next few days to keep upping the ratio of diesel.

The real crime is that we have pumps that are designed so that you can cause major damage to your car from such an innocent mistake. And it doesn't have to even be you doing it. Service station attendant (New Jersey, I'm talkin' to you), other family members that don't drive that car much, lending your car to someone, etc. I just let my mom & step-dad drive our TDI for a couple of weeks & had a low-grade fear over this. It's just a stupid situation. Even if the pumps don't change, it wouldn't be that hard to design a system in the filler neck that wouldn't let you insert the smaller nozzle. Where are the VW engineers on this? And it's going to become more of an issue as more people drive diesels. Of course we'll all be going electric before too long so...

The best thing I've come up with is to paint the fuel cap red & use a Sharpie to write "Diesel!" on it. But this has caused me to go looking and guess what? They have green fuel caps that say "Diesel Fuel Only" on them. You can even get one with a lock so you can lock when you lend the car out. Put the key in the glove box with a big "Diesel" car attached to it. Notice it's green...like the pump...that wasn't diesel...

The BMW diesels use a system that the larger diesel nozzle triggers to open the flap and allow full insertion, but the smaller gas nozzles will not trigger. This is a system that VW and other diesel manufacturers should employ in their passenger cars. I don't think it is necessary in 3/4-ton and 1-ton trucks but if they ever do release 1/2-ton trucks they should use it with them as well.

The technology is there, other manufacturers are just too cheap to use it, VW included!!!

40X40 · Feb 8, 2013

Chris Tobin said:
The BMW diesels use a system that the larger diesel nozzle triggers to open the flap and allow full insertion, but the smaller gas nozzles will not trigger. This is a system that VW and other diesel manufacturers should employ in their passenger cars. I don't think it is necessary in 3/4-ton and 1-ton trucks but if they ever do release 1/2-ton trucks they should use it with them as well.
The technology is there, other manufacturers are just too cheap to use it, VW included!!!

VW has this very system in use on some current production (Passat?) models.

Bill

Chris Tobin · Feb 8, 2013

Then why not on all TDIs??? Especially with the CR HPFP issues???

40X40 · Feb 8, 2013

Chris Tobin said:
Then why not on all TDIs??? Especially with the CR HPFP issues???

Ask VW.

Bill

tdiatlast · Feb 8, 2013

Chris Tobin: Do a search. VWoA has taken ENORMOUS heat here for the restrictive filler neck.

vwdieseling · Feb 8, 2013

At least you caught it. The pump duse is an interesting engine. I hate to say this, but in the 1980's if you had an IDI 1.6 the VW owners manual recommended that if number 1 diesel was not available and number 2 was to mix unleaded gasoline to prevent gelling. In the pump duse this will cause problems. Just saying how things have changed. I always keep on my wife regarding our 1.9 TDI as far as making sure she puts diesel not unleaded into the tank. Hard on the IP. Wish it would have been a little cheaper on you. My how things change.

JM Popaleetus · Feb 8, 2013

Lightflyer1 said:
Yet here is half a gallon mixed in, driven on, and the consensus is not to worry. According to JM you would think a hpfp failure is bound to happen before the tank is empty.

Not only are you taking what I said completely out of context, you apparently cannot read.

Any lubricity or contamination issues enough to damage our PSI is going to damage it catastrophically.

I agree with the consensus to not worry. The HPFP survived, the contamination wasn't enough to kill it so therefore it's probably fine.

GoFaster · Feb 9, 2013

I think ALL of the current TDI models use the filler neck restrictor.

It does not help that in the USA, a lot of diesel pumps have the incorrect nozzle on them.

Lee Braselton · Feb 11, 2013

The diesel pumps are usually the dirtiest, I never rely on the color of the handle, always look for the spilled diesel or dark spot on the pavement near the pump.

Phrankentruk · Feb 11, 2013

The diesel pumps are usually the dirtiest, I never rely on the color of the handle, always look for the spilled diesel or dark spot on the pavement near the pump.

That would imply conscious brain activity which, of course, is not happening when one performs this trick.

Lightflyer1 · Feb 11, 2013

Rely on the word diesel on the pump.

ottomatic · Feb 11, 2013

Conrad -JSW said:
Where do you buy 2 stroke oil by the liter? Just about anywhere. I have gallon jugs of it for use in my snowmobiles.

As for being on 'autopilot' and putting RUG in instead of diesel? That's the problem with so many folks. Driving around on autopilot and not paying attention to what they're doing. I've been driving a diesel since 2003 and not once have I even come close to reaching for the RUG pump handle when filling up. For the life of me I just can't understand how someone could confuse the two.

X2 Since 1986.
However on a bridge job where I was foreman part of the deal was I got my truck (86 F250 6.9) filled up when I needed it. The fuel guy made the mistake of putting gas instead of diesel. He put about 8 gals of gas in my 38 gal tank.
I caught it as walking up to BS with him.. Well he topped it off with diesel & that 6.9 gained about 50 hp.. Truck had about 30k @ that time.
Never had a problem & truck ran fine to 450K when it was stolen.
Course that had a different injection system.

Abacus · Feb 12, 2013

Conrad -JSW said:
Where do you buy 2 stroke oil by the liter? Just about anywhere. I have gallon jugs of it for use in my snowmobiles.

.

I keep a gallon of it in the back of the car and add it to every tank on all our cars, always have and always will. It's too expensive by the liter. And yes, I know the OP has a CR, I wasn't suggesting adding it, just that it can be found easily just about anywhere.

I can see how it'd be easy to confuse the handles, up here there are yellow, green, and black handles on the diesel pumps, and green or black on the RUG pumps.

The OP did the right thing here, which is what made her feel comfortable. When in doubt, it's better to err on the side of caution.

Jeepaholic · Feb 17, 2013

I always know if I'm at the diesel pump. See, the filthy pump handle dripping with diesel, as well as the floor-dry/diesel mud on the ground is another tip off haha.
Why the heck are diesel pumps soo nasty?

Phrankentruk · Feb 17, 2013

Because oil doesn't evaporate (or at least not quickly) like gas.

40X40 · Feb 17, 2013

Jeepaholic said:
I always know if I'm at the diesel pump. See, the filthy pump handle dripping with diesel, as well as the floor-dry/diesel mud on the ground is another tip off haha.
Why the heck are diesel pumps soo nasty?

Phrankentruk said:
Because oil doesn't evaporate (or at least not quickly) like gas.

Bingo!

Bill

VWBeamer · Feb 17, 2013

All diesel has some RUG in it and all RUG has some diesel in it. I think the OP wasted 540 bucks. If anything throw a little 2 stroke oil in it.

Back to my assertion that all fuel is contaminated to some degree. The fuel is refined and then pumped to a distribution center ( google plantation pipeline). There is a common pipe that all fuel but some certain specialty fuel are pumped through. For example they may pump a few 100K gallons of unleaded, then they start pumping diesel. The fuel that is most mixed is called mixed fuel and sold to power plants or other industrial customers that can burn it. But fact is all the fuel is mixed to a degree.

But let's say that did not happen, you some how got 100% diesel at the distribution point, where it is loaded on a fuel truck. That truck is not dedicated to one type of fuel. It might carry diesel one load, Rug the next load, premium the next load. The driver dumps the fuel, but unless the truck is sitting perfectly level, there is always 15 -20 gallons left at least. Also consider these drivers get paid by the load, so they are not going to wait for the last drop to trickle out either.

I don't think such a small amount is reason to panic, and I would add some kind of lubricate to every tank.

VWMax · Mar 2, 2013

Don’t feel bad and the old TDI Jetta’s will run on gas!!

My wife filled up my 2002 Jetta TDI with diesel drove 200 miles and stopped at Amoco and topped off the tank with Gas. Cranked the car and drove 350 miles home. When she arrived she told me the car was running funny...go figure..Not knowing the story about Amoco I went out and started the car it ran…. but not very good??? drove it in the garage lifted the hood and it was hot!!. Shut it down removed the hose from the fuel filter and guess what I smelled GAS!! Not a pleasant talk with the wife.

Anyway changed the oil and filter, drained the fuel tank flushed all the lines and replaced the fuel filter. Filled her up with Diesel and it cranked. That was 150k miles ago and the car is still running well with excellent fuel mileage. The only thing I think that saved the engine was the mix….. I guessing 8 gals of Diesel and 4 gals of Gas kept it from exploding. I do expect the life of the fuel pump and engine to be shortened.

Dimitri16V · Mar 5, 2013

0.42 gallons of gas ? seriously, wasted $$ to the dealer

tdiatlast · Mar 5, 2013

Dimitri16V: Buy a CR. Add 1/2 gallon of RUG to your tank of diesel. See how far down the road you get.
Post your results here.

bockegg · Mar 6, 2013

node_one said:
I've yet to see a green handled diesel pump - all in my area are yellow, black or grey

Learn to read the signs and don't assume.

Every diesel pump where I live is green. I made it simple for my family and I. We drive nothing but diesel autos, and I fuel it.

JSWTDI09 · Mar 6, 2013

bockegg said:
Every diesel pump where I live is green. I made it simple for my family and I. We drive nothing but diesel autos, and I fuel it.

You are lucky that in your area you can count on color. However, it is not a good idea to teach your family to go by nozzle color. In other parts of the country they do not follow this "standard". I have filled my car with diesel fuel from Green, Yellow and Black pump handles (nozzles). Make sure you family learns to read the signs. Counting on color to choose pump handles will eventually cause big trouble if anyone in your family ever leaves your immediate area. Unfortunately, there is no standard in the US about what color pump handles should be. Teaching people to go by pump color is a dangerous way to go.

Have Fun!

Don

4ePikanini · Mar 6, 2013

In South Africa it is a low paid wage to be a pump attendant., so naturally not the brightest or most attentive people work there.

Not a single fill up goes by without me getting out of the car and double checking that it is actually diesel they are pouring into the tank.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk because forumrunner keeps crashing on ios 6

spartanmanor · Mar 6, 2013

tdiatlast said:
Dimitri16V: Buy a CR. Add 1/2 gallon of RUG to your tank of diesel. See how far down the road you get.
Post your results here.

Probably ok in his 01. Not so with the 2012.

bockegg · Mar 6, 2013

4ePikanini said:
In South Africa it is a low paid wage to be a pump attendant., so naturally not the brightest or most attentive people work there.

Not a single fill up goes by without me getting out of the car and double checking that it is actually diesel they are pouring into the tank.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk because forumrunner keeps crashing on ios 6

Wow, I'm so glad we have self-pump everywhere in PA. That would make me nervous.

kjclow · Mar 6, 2013

Conrad -JSW said:
Where do you buy 2 stroke oil by the liter? Just about anywhere. I have gallon jugs of it for use in my snowmobiles.

As for being on 'autopilot' and putting RUG in instead of diesel? That's the problem with so many folks. Driving around on autopilot and not paying attention to what they're doing. I've been driving a diesel since 2003 and not once have I even come close to reaching for the RUG pump handle when filling up. For the life of me I just can't understand how someone could confuse the two.

I pulled into either a BP or Shell station around here a while back. All their pumps had three hoses, yellow, green, and black. Got out of the car and swiped my card. Then started looking for which nozzel was diesel. They were all gasoline at different octanes. That station did not carry diesel. cancel transaction. Back in the car and down the road about half a mile. I've pulled the diesel hose while starting to refuel the Passat. caught myself before the nozzel hit the filler neck. My other car and truck fill on the left side, so it's easier to remember.

Mixing unleaded with Diesel in 2012 Jetta TDI

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