Jeep WK CRDs?

ocshaman

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I'm looking for a larger vehicle, and the WK has been drifting through my head as an R/4WD vehicle for carrying more stuff. Does anyone have experience with them as a daily driver?
 

GoFaster

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The earlier ones (2007-2009) used a M-B engine, the later ones (2011-on) use a Fiat Powertrain engine which is the same one that the diesel Ram 1500 uses. There's not too many of them around.

I know someone who has the platform-mate Dodge Durango, current body style (2014-ish), although his has the Hemi engine. As far as I know, it has been fine - although very thirsty. For him, that one replaces a 1990s-era Durango with the old 5.2 (aka 318) V8 and 4 speed automatic, so the Hemi - 8-speed was an improvement ...
 

IndigoBlueWagon

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WK with the OM642 are a pretty rare vehicle. Owners seem to like them, however. And I know one guy who sold back his Touareg and bought a newer Grand Cherokee with the VM Motori (not Fiat, although the lineage of the engine is not altogether clear), and he likes it.
 

GoFaster

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VM Motori has gone through enough ownership changes to make one's head spin. As far as I can tell, as of right now ...

FCA owns Fiat Powertrain which entirely owns VM Motori, and both VM Motori and Fiat Powertrain developed that engine (called A630 or L630) according to Wiki. It appears that VM Motori (which is owned by Fiat anyhow) did the bones of the engine and Fiat Powertrain did the fuel injection and emission control part of it.
 

ocshaman

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WK with the OM642 are a pretty rare vehicle. Owners seem to like them, however. And I know one guy who sold back his Touareg and bought a newer Grand Cherokee with the VM Motori (not Fiat, although the lineage of the engine is not altogether clear), and he likes it.
Yes, only one pops up within 300 miles every month or so. Some stick around, some are gone pretty quick. Like the idea, but 20 mpg on the highway for a 4WD doesn't sound fun. Other choice is a 4WD BMW or a CR TDI that will need several thousand in work to get somewhat comparable power.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

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The big problem with the WK as I understand it is the short gearing. That kills FE. The X5 does better, and higher mileage ones of those are pretty reasonably priced these days. If you live in a state where you can delete the DPF and get rid of the Adblue system, they make good power.
 

ocshaman

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The big problem with the WK as I understand it is the short gearing. That kills FE. The X5 does better, and higher mileage ones of those are pretty reasonably priced these days. If you live in a state where you can delete the DPF and get rid of the Adblue system, they make good power.
Yeah, which is why I don't have one of either yet. The 2WD Jeep with different gearing would be nice, but the X5D would be 80 hp up stock, and 150 hp up with Malone tuning.

The access to swirl flaps on the X5D would be nice for water methanol, but it's still a German luxury car with alot of stuff to go wrong. And yes, certain things might come off "accidentally" while "driving".
 

Owain@malonetuning

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I really like the CRDs, but since the brand has been passed around so much some parts/diagnostic info might be tricky to find. The gearing is a little short if you find yourself over 80mph regularly, but if the price is right and you're comfortable working with them/know someone who will it's a solid buy. The prices seem to range wildly and some approach high mileage x5 territory, but they pop up for really cheap now and again.

Touareg has the best support/parts distribution but they seem to fetch a bit of a premium. The X5 is a whole different animal and drives very car-like; you have some good ideas there, although your significant other/wallet might not approve ;)
 
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yatzee

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Just bought a 2008 GC CRD with the OM642. I'm in the process of doing the alternator on it, there is a front ball joint to do and also a couple glow plugs. Pretty normal list!

Yes, it spins too quickly on the highway. The off road crowd love it, but the rest of us don't. You can swap complete 3.07 axles from a V6 model or a commander easily, but you have to have the correct scan tool to reprogram the tire size (the ones for the gassers don't work). When swapping axles, you might lose the trick 4wd system - mine has front and rear locking electronic diffs, so I'll have to get the R+P swapped instead.

Other than that, oil coolers leak (big job), swirl motors short (due to leaking turbo inlet seal), and turbo actuators can give trouble (rebuilt are available).
 

turbobrick240

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The gearing wouldn't be quite so bad if you threw some taller tires on it. It is a Jeep after all.
 

yatzee

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The gearing wouldn't be quite so bad if you threw some taller tires on it. It is a Jeep after all.
Normally, I'd agree, but the gearing isn't slightly bad - it's very bad. Off the top of my head, you're doing about 2600 rpm at 70 mph, whereas with 3.07 gearing, it would be under 2000. Bigger tires just can't do that.

In my master plan, i'll be running a tire that is 7% taller - not for off roading - I want to run a narrower tire to help with economy and in the snow.
 

oilhammer

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There are just too many to list....
MB spins the V6 faster in the Sprinters, too. No idea why. What would be neat is if you could swap the 5sp automatic for the newer 7sp G-tronic.
 

yatzee

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MB spins the V6 faster in the Sprinters, too. No idea why. What would be neat is if you could swap the 5sp automatic for the newer 7sp G-tronic.
yup, agreed. I've done quite a bit of research and i'm fairly sure i'll put in a 3.07 R+P into my truck early on. The issue is the speedo recalibration - the hypertech tool (the 1st that comes up when you google) doesn't work on the diesels - only on the gassers. With a proper pro scan tool (or a star scan), it should be possible to change the tire size.

I've got a Solus Pro and i do not have the option to change it. There is a video floating around saying that other Snap On scanners can, but no one online has confirmed it. An Auto Enginuity with the Chrysler add-on can do it, as can higher models of Autel. My next step will be to find someone who has 1 of these scanners and see exactly what i can modify
 

InfoSec

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I'm pretty sure that the jeeps with the om642 are 6-speeds, whilst my 2010 MB ML350 BT with the same motor, has the 7-speed. I routinely attain 30-33mpg hwy, and around 27mpg/mixed, and I don't baby it, either. It has been tuned/deleted, etc., and that helps, too. Before it's abc delete, I could muster about 31mpg @ 55mph. So very boring... it's a blast to drive now.
 

oilhammer

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There are just too many to list....
They are 5 speeds.

The Mercedes-Benz 5G-Tronic (also called 722.6) is an electronically shifted 5-speed overdrive automatic transmission with torque converter lockup (typically in gears 3,4,5) and 2-speed for reverse. It replaced the older 722.3 / 722.4 4-speed 4G-Tronic transmission and its 722.5 5-speed derivative.

Common transmission in a lot of MB and ChryCo products... even some V6 gas GC use these, as well as a bunch of the LX body cars.

The ZF sourced units replaced most these after Fiat's takeover (Fiat has no in-house slushboxes).

This is always a confusing thing for people I work with, since they also used some ChryCo 5sp automatics (some of which got changed to 6sp with a software update), so you have to be sure which transmission you are dealing with as to what service/repair they may need. They LOOK completely different, but to someone who doesn't know nor care to know....
 
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speed185187

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Not to pull you from the oil burning segment, but wife and I really love our 2018 outback 2.5 Limited. Haven't gotten it stuck yet and avg 25.2mpg. The eyesight adaptive cruise is the shiznit. :)
 

oilhammer

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There are just too many to list....
Oil burning and Subaru go hand in hand, LOL. I know that isn't what you meant, but boy oh golly those Subies can eat some oil. TSB after TSB. We service a bunch of 2015-17 Foresters, they all have dry dipsticks before their next service is due, then they eat a CVT and/or a front axle. :p
 

tikal

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Not to pull you from the oil burning segment, but wife and I really love our 2018 outback 2.5 Limited. Haven't gotten it stuck yet and avg 25.2mpg. The eyesight adaptive cruise is the shiznit. :)

Very close to the general population average for 2018 according to Fuelly.com for the 2.5L gas engine:


"Based on data from 268 vehicles, 7,067 fuel-ups and 2,590,486 miles of driving, the 2018 Subaru Outback gets a combined Avg MPG of 25.55 with a 0.09 MPG margin of error."



Do you have a previous diesel car (relatively similar) to compare in terms of performance under load/hilly roads, etc?
 

oilhammer

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There are just too many to list....
Nope. There are some of the ChryCo 545RFE 5sp transmissions that were later changed to the 65RFE 6sp, and the only difference is software. You can reprogram the older units with the 545RFE and make them choose all six gears, making them a 65RFE. The only difference is an improved torque converter which has nothing to do with the ratio changes.

And the use of these gears only applies in certain driving modes. They do goofy gear skips.

Remember, most all the "old" conventional automatics that were 3sp worked basically the same. You had a low gear, an intermediate gear, and then the direct drive gear. 3rd's ratio was always 1:1. Then they started adding overdrive, which was just a second high/low transmission on the end. Overdrive only worked when the 3sp transmission was in direct drive. So this made a 4sp. But, if you turned the OD on in low or intermediate gear, you could have up to six speeds... from the same transmission. Which is exactly what some manufacturers did. They'll turn the OD on and off in the lower gears to "make" more ratios. Sort of like a "10-speed" bicycle only actually has 7 gears, 2 at the front, 5 at the rear.
 
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turbobrick240

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Back in the 80's GM put a 4+3 transmission in Corvettes. It was a 4 speed manual with push button overdrive that worked (until it didn't) in the top three gears. My Volvo 240's had a 4+1 overdrive that could be set up to work in all gears. The overdrive units were always the weak link in those transmissions.
 

speed185187

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I've never had a similar diesel suv to compare. It's always been one extreme or the other. My little Jetta TDI's (mid 40's) or my huge 1 Ton dually (low teens)
Do you have a previous diesel car (relatively similar) to compare in terms of performance under load/hilly roads, etc?
knock on wood..... 17,000 miles and doesn't burn any yet. :rolleyes: We did get an extended warranty letter in the mail saying our CVT is covered out to 100,000. Time will tell. Wife daily drives it 80 miles/day good mix of hwy/city and it's our family grocery getter.
Oil burning and Subaru go hand in hand, LOL. I know that isn't what you meant, but boy oh golly those Subies can eat some oil. TSB after TSB. We service a bunch of 2015-17 Foresters, they all have dry dipsticks before their next service is due, then they eat a CVT and/or a front axle. :p
 

oilhammer

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There are just too many to list....
I've never had a similar diesel suv to compare. It's always been one extreme or the other. My little Jetta TDI's (mid 40's) or my huge 1 Ton dually (low teens)
knock on wood..... 17,000 miles and doesn't burn any yet. :rolleyes: We did get an extended warranty letter in the mail saying our CVT is covered out to 100,000. Time will tell. Wife daily drives it 80 miles/day good mix of hwy/city and it's our family grocery getter.

Yep, the "apology letter" for unleashing these turds:



We see them like this constantly. They were sold out of them in North America over the summer, LMAO.

What I cannot figure out is, durability issues aside, how you can stand to drive them with this awful transmission? I could tolerate the oil burning (I know how to use a dipstick), and I could even tolerate the catalysts cracking (we do loads of those, too), and maybe with enough TLC I could put off the rampant undercarriage rust on all the fasteners... but I would HAVE to row my own gears in one of these. And even then, they still feel "cheap" to me. But hey, at least they'll replace your transmission for you before 100k miles. So they admit that anyway. Step in the right direction.

Best thing that could happen is Toyota puts the halt on these CVTs and just puts an Aisin box in there instead.
 
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jck66

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Thank you for the explanation - I never thought of an automatic transmission in that way.

Does this logic hold true for the ZF 6HP and 8HP transmissions as well? I have a 535d and I could swear that sometimes when I'm taking off from an "almost stop" the transmission feels like it sort of "slides" into gear. Hard to describe, kind of like letting out a clutch too slowly. Could it be transitioning in 2nd gear from non-lockup to lockup?
 

oilhammer

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There are just too many to list....
The newer 6 and 8 sp longitudinal ZF transmissions, at least in the German cars, seem to mimic a manual in their behavior. But what exactly is happening inside I do not know. I suppose you could drive it with a scan tool and monitor the gear applications and see.

I know they all have a pretty aggressive lock up strategy to make use of the modern engines' torque, especially the diesels.
 

DnA Diesel

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Normally, I'd agree, but the gearing isn't slightly bad - it's very bad. Off the top of my head, you're doing about 2600 rpm at 70 mph, whereas with 3.07 gearing, it would be under 2000. Bigger tires just can't do that.
In my master plan, i'll be running a tire that is 7% taller - not for off roading - I want to run a narrower tire to help with economy and in the snow.
2600rpm? Good Lord, that’s horrible! Is that just Jeep being lazy to get tow ratings, etc? I know there’s some tech difference, but if an OM642-powered W166 GLE can tow 7,300lbs, yet turn 1450rpm and get 30mpgUS at 70mph, the. surely a WK(2) has to be able to be set up to be close to that kind of performance?

Cheers

DnA
 
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