Oil extracting question

surroundsound64 · Dec 27, 2013

This is my second time to use the extraction method (both times on this car.) the first time was trouble free. This time it seemed very difficult to get all of the oil out. Finally I got all that I could, only put 4qt back in it and it seems well over full.

I have an oil extractor I purchased from harbor freight. It seems to work find except that I'm not seeing any oil in the stand pipe outside the tank to tell exactly how much came out, but the internal level came up. I suspect there is just some debris in the stand pipe filler.

My question, how far should I have to insert the probe to be able to get all the oil? I can insert it considerably farther than the dipstick goes but apparently for whatever reason that doesn't work.

Thanks

Softrockrenegade · Dec 27, 2013

Insert it until it hits the bottom of the oil pan. I also recommend replacing your harbor freight extractor with a pela 6000.

dzcad90 · Dec 27, 2013

I've never had luck with extraction - I never seem to get it all out. I may give it a shot again with the Passat, but I don't hold high hopes.

I know this is a polarizing issue, but I still prefer to get under there and see what's going on. Living in a condo though, extraction would seem to benefit me more as jacking up / ramping the car up is kind of a chore in a single car garage. (Not to mention it's verboten by the homeowners association, but that's never stopped me before...)

dieseldorf · Dec 27, 2013

surroundsound64 said:
I have an oil extractor I purchased from harbor freight.

Which model?

JSWTDI09 · Dec 27, 2013

I believe that 2 things are important when extracting oil.

1) inserting the tube. This can vary depending on the type of car. Usually you just push it in until it stops. When you hear it sucking air, you wiggle it around to see if you can find a lower spot. This process can be made more complicated by #2
2) oil temperature. The oil should be warm, but not too hot. If the oil is too cool, it will not flow as well and it will be harder to suck it out of the engine. However, if the oil is too hot, it can soften the plastic tube and make it more likely to bend when it hits bottom. This can actually cause you to go beyond where he oil is.

I usually drive around until the car is fully warmed up, then park in a level spot and let the car sit for an hour or more. I give it plenty of time for as much oil as possible to drain back into the pan and cool down a bit. Also any slope can make a difference. When draining the oil the car should be level or front end up, when extracting, the car should usually be level or slightly rear end up hill. You drain from the back of the oil pan, you usually extract from the front of the oil pan.

Have Fun!

Don

30_Yr_Dsl_Veteran · Dec 27, 2013

surroundsound64 said:
My question, how far should I have to insert the probe to be able to get all the oil?

My Smart car has NO oil pan drain, and changing the oil is a PITA!

What I did, was open up a coat hanger, and used it to measure where the bottom of the oil pan is, then use that length to mark the inserted tube with a piece of tape to that same length.

surroundsound64 · Dec 27, 2013

dieseldorf said:
Which model?

http://m.harborfreight.com/6-1-4-qu...r-46149.html?utm_referrer=direct/not provided

surroundsound64 · Dec 27, 2013

JSWTDI09 said:
I believe that 2 things are important when extracting oil.

1) inserting the tube. This can vary depending on the type of car. Usually you just push it in until it stops. When you hear it sucking air, you wiggle it around to see if you can find a lower spot. This process can be made more complicated by #2
2) oil temperature. The oil should be warm, but not too hot. If the oil is too cool, it will not flow as well and it will be harder to suck it out of the engine. However, if the oil is too hot, it can soften the plastic tube and make it more likely to bend when it hits bottom. This can actually cause you to go beyond where he oil is.

I usually drive around until the car is fully warmed up, then park in a level spot and let the car sit for an hour or more. I give it plenty of time for as much oil as possible to drain back into the pan and cool down a bit. Also any slope can make a difference. When draining the oil the car should be level or front end up, when extracting, the car should usually be level or slightly rear end up hill. You drain from the back of the oil pan, you usually extract from the front of the oil pan.

Have Fun!

Don

This may be it. It was cold last night, low 30s, and I had a long drive I had to make today (275 miles.) so I was in a hurry to warm it up and get it changed. I am aware there is a narrow temp band I'm supposed to extract it from. I just made a large pass around the block to warm it up but not get it hot. Maybe I didn't get it hot enough. Either way, I'm going to need to suck some out when I get home.

FormerOwner · Dec 27, 2013

Simply drive it to operating temperature. Park it at a slight decline, and wait about 15 minutes. The majority of oil will be at or around the dipstick with this move. Then proceed to use your Pela 6000 to suck out the oil through the dipstick. SIMPLE.

Rico567 · Dec 28, 2013

FormerOwner said:
Simply drive it to operating temperature. Park it at a slight decline, and wait about 15 minutes. The majority of oil will be at or around the dipstick with this move. Then proceed to use your Pela 6000 to suck out the oil through the dipstick. SIMPLE.

And by "Park it at a slight decline," I take it that you mean with the front end of the car LOWER than the rear. Correct?

nord · Dec 28, 2013

While I'm not totally against "extraction", I generally recommend against. The drain plug remains the best way to remove old oil and going this route provides added benefits.

1. Belly pan removal gives you the chance to do an inspection of the underside of your engine and drivetrain. I believe this to be almost as important as the oil change itself.

2. Plug removal and inspection will give you an immediate clue as to the internal health of your engine. (We don't like to see "chunkies" here.) I usually place a piece of filter media in the catch basin. Anything caught in the media is worthy of inspection.

3. Minor spills can easily be cleaned up. (They happen to all of us.)

4. Plug removal assures that as little old oil as possible remains in the engine. No matter how we parse our reasons for extraction, the fact remains that there's a huge difference between an ounce or so of remaining old oil versus a pint or more.

My opinion of course. Maybe it matters. Maybe it doesn't.

jgeorge · Dec 28, 2013

Yes- park the car so the front is lower than the rear- ie When i change it in the driveway I back up into the driveway as it is sloped so the nose of the car is down and the oil pools at the leading edge of the oil pan where the dipstick is situated.

surroundsound64 · Dec 28, 2013

I'm aware of the advantages and disadvantages of extraction. I also am aware of how and how not to tighten a drain plug. I simply want to know how far others need to insert the tube.

kydsid · Dec 28, 2013

I park on an incline and push the tube till I hit the bottom back side of the pan. I have always extracted over 4 liters of oil very easily with this method. And it take 4.5 to 4.8 quarts to read full when filling so I'm confident I get as much as a regular drain.

jgeorge · Dec 28, 2013

Hold the dipstick up against the tube you will be using and mark that length off. To this add a couple of inches. When the overall length is inserted it should be pretty well bottomed. If a little more is needed just push a little farther . You should feel it bottom out. If the inserted tube has a natural curve to it insert the tube with the curve facing the foreward face of the oil pan.The tube will want to follow the face of the pan down to the bottom. With the curve facing the rear and in( my first extraction) the tube either got hung up in the baffle or glanced off the bottom and changed direction resulting in 3/4 of the oil being extracted. I then added instead of measuring what came out first. My bad. This procedure is done by "feel" so don't just stuff the extraction tube in. Hope this helps.

surroundsound64 · Dec 28, 2013

kydsid said:
I park on an incline and push the tube till I hit the bottom back side of the pan. I have always extracted over 4 liters of oil very easily with this method. And it take 4.5 to 4.8 quarts to read full when filling so I'm confident I get as much as a regular drain.

jgeorge said:
Hold the dipstick up against the tube you will be using and mark that length off. To this add a couple of inches. When the overall length is inserted it should be pretty well bottomed. If a little more is needed just push a little farther . You should feel it bottom out. If the inserted tube has a natural curve to it insert the tube with the curve facing the foreward face of the oil pan.The tube will want to follow the face of the pan down to the bottom. With the curve facing the rear and in( my first extraction) the tube either got hung up in the baffle or glanced off the bottom and changed direction resulting in 3/4 of the oil being extracted. I then added instead of measuring what came out first. My bad. This procedure is done by "feel" so don't just stuff the extraction tube in. Hope this helps.

Thank you. Yes, I did line the dip stick up with the extraction hose. When I insert it that far I feel a lip. I can move it around a little and insert it another 6" or so until it will not go any farther. However, that far in doesn't seem to pull any out. No gurgling and no fluid, almost like it's getting crimped or something but I don't see any evidence of that. Maybe the issue was that the oil was just not warm enough to flow freely. I'll try again with hot oil (not immediately after shut down hot) and see what happens.

Thanks for the feed back.

jgeorge · Dec 28, 2013

Oil temp is key- not scalding but definitely hot. Also depending on the capacity of the fluid extractor( mine's 9 litres ) it needs quite a few pumps for good flow. Usually 20-30 to start and periodically a few more. Near the end of extraction I move the tube up and down when gurgling can be heard as more is always pulled out.

rustycat · Dec 28, 2013

I just finished a 5k mid cycle oil change using the Pela pump that was also used in the following link.
http://www.myturbodiesel.com/1000q/a6/TDI-oil-change-vacuum-extractor.htm

Skimax · Dec 28, 2013

I haven't done our new /13 passat TDI yet as it has only has about 3.3K. I have been using a Pela extractor on our 2000 Passat GLS gasser and 07 Mazda 3 for years. 2000 passat has 140K mazda 3, 77k both are running fine, aren't using oil and have have good oil test sample results. It is so much easier using the extractor. I usually just extract it right after drive home 20 miles from work when the oil is good and hot and nothing has settled out. After it starts sucking air I wait a few minutes and then pump up a vacuum again several more times. A couple times I've pulled the drain plugs and only about a tablespoon of oil comes out so I'm confident extracting is working for me. It's easy to pour the used oil into an empty jug and recycle it at my local repair shop( state inspection, etc) where it is used in a waste oil burner to heat their shop. The owner there appreciates it and gives me a break now and then.

As a side note the 2013 Mack Pinnacle tractor, with a MP7 engine, I drive at work comes with a dedicated port for extracting the used oil, the factory recommended method for servicing the engine.

FormerOwner · Dec 28, 2013

@Rico:

YES! A decline points the front of the car downward; an incline is the opposite. I suggest waiting 15 minutes for 2 reasons: gravity, and temperature of the engine declining. The instruction manual of the Pela specifies to NOT insert it into a hot motor.

psd1 · Dec 29, 2013

Ordering a pela 6000 ASAP. Anyone know of a great source other than Ebay?

JSWTDI09 · Dec 29, 2013

psd1 said:
Ordering a pela 6000 ASAP. Anyone know of a great source other than Ebay?

Here's one other option (and it a TDIClub supporter):
http://www.idparts.com/catalog/adva...ela&osCsid=fvs3pg15qtoeuusb784csacbl0&x=0&y=0

Have Fun!

Don

r11 · Dec 30, 2013

Beware of clone extractors using softer tubes - these simply collapse onto themselves when vacuum is created. I think Pela has metal mesh inside of the extraction tube that keeps it from collapsing. It also keeps it straight so that it doesn't kink.

FormerOwner · Dec 31, 2013

@R11: The Pela has a metal insert that is NOT mesh. It's actually a metal tube that is inserted inside of the rubberized plastic tubing. The metal goes inside of it several inches and then the rest of the hose is made of the rubber / plastic type of material (almost urethane and/or flexible plastic perhaps...).

gcodori · Dec 31, 2013

It looks like idparts sells replacement tubes if anyone is interested.

dlb · Jan 1, 2014

FormerOwner said:
@Rico:

YES! A decline points the front of the car downward; an incline is the opposite. I suggest waiting 15 minutes for 2 reasons: gravity, and temperature of the engine declining. The instruction manual of the Pela specifies to NOT insert it into a hot motor.

Used my Pela for yrs on a hot engine..... Never an issue and works perfectly every time....

FormerOwner · Jan 1, 2014

@dlb Congrats.

TomB · Jan 3, 2014

surroundsound64 said:
I'm aware of the advantages and disadvantages of extraction. I also am aware of how and how not to tighten a drain plug. I simply want to know how far others need to insert the tube.

Based on the original posting we cannot assume you know everything about the oil change procedure.

What leads to that comment is that you added 4 liters of oil without checking the level in between each container and that you added oil without checking the amount actually withdrawn. These simple double checks save hassles.

KITEWAGON · Jan 3, 2014

Great tip on putting the car at a slight decline. I've done mine on level ground and felt like I should be getting an extra 1/4 to 1/2 quart. I bet I was missing a little bit of oil in the back of the pan.

dlb · Jan 3, 2014

FormerOwner said:
@dlb Congrats.

thanks pal .... now my day is complete

Oil extracting question

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