TDI Town & Country

Frankendiesel

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2008
Location
Cedar Rapids, IA
TDI
2000 Beetle TDI
Back in Action!

I took Frankendiesel for a spin tonight; first time in almost a year! I struggled most of the afternoon with the silly brakes of all things. As you may recall, I had to splice two brake lines after one section corroded through. But after doing just that, I could not get the system to bleed at all. :mad: I read in the Haynes manual for the van that if you have ABS and you need to bleed the lines, you are to have it towed to an authorized repair shop that has a DRB II scan tool. Unbelievable. So anyway, I'm going to ask my Mopar Mechanic buddy tomorrow if he has said tool. Here's hoping. What I believe happend is the ABS pump accumulators drained through the line while I had it cut apart for surgery. I believe the pump needs to cycle its valves in order to get the air through the lines. Anyone confirm or deny that theory? The brakes still function somewhat, but the pedal drops to the floor for anything but light braking.

Another bug bit me tonight - fuel supply issues. After about 2 minutes of driving, the engine will stall and you have to hit the electric in-tank pump to get the fuel back up. I remember now that whenever I drove it last year, I had to run the electric pump all the time or the IP would starve. I'll probably just wire the pump's relay to a switched ignition wire. And for those who have kept track of this saga, you may recall my statement about wanting to disable the pump becuase of an explosion threat. Well, my friend who convinced me of that last year said tonight as we were kicking the tires, he changed his mind; let it run. :p

Boost - it does indeed appear to be regulating. I have no tach yet, so I'll have to guestimate here that around 4 grand, the boost hits 17 psi, then jumps back down to about 10 or below as RPM's increase. Does this sound right? I was anticipating the boost to stay regulated at a set pressure as the RPM's climbed. I must say, it did pull this hunk of iron pretty well up to when boost started to fade.

Timing - I timed it after the joyride tonight. It was a bit retarded, so I tweaked it to just above the magic line in VCDS. It might be just me, but it seemed to quiet down just a scosh after that as well. One thing I did notice tonight was that the accel pedal did not register 0% at rest. It registered 7.8% and the TDI Timing window flagged me that the engine was not at idle (the engine speed register was approx 1,100 RPM's). As some may recall, I am using a MKIV pedal as it was far cheaper and more readily available. I may have to put a resistor in series with the wiper to get that down to 0%. More experiments to follow.

A parting shot:



I got the emblem off a Benz in the Boneyard last year. Thought it looked kinda nice right there.
 
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Boost_virgin

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2006
Location
Sullivan MO
TDI
2000 Jetta
I like the emblem. It looks really good, and seems to match what is already there. Are you using a Waste Gate Turbo? If you are I would suggest get a boost guage, and a manual boost controler. Simple, no electronics to work out. If nothing else start with manifold pressure going to the waste gate. It will open at 5psi. At least that way it will not blow up.

Project looks awsome. If you get a chance you should post information on turbododge.com They love vans over there. Turbo Vans they go nuts. If they could read about your project I think they would come un glued. Project is going great.
 

Frankendiesel

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2008
Location
Cedar Rapids, IA
TDI
2000 Beetle TDI
I am using a waste gate turbo and I do have a boost gauge temporarily installed (T'd in with pressure line to ECU). You are the second person to recommend using a mechanical waste gate control. I'll look into that, but for now, it seems to be working. I'll go see if turbodoge.com is accepting visitors. :)
 

Boost_virgin

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2006
Location
Sullivan MO
TDI
2000 Jetta
heheheh, I think it's the second time it was recommend by the same person. Sorry I forgot it posted links about it eariler. Great project.
 

Frankendiesel

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2008
Location
Cedar Rapids, IA
TDI
2000 Beetle TDI
Fuel delivery issues continue to plague the Frankendiesel. I've discovered that if you run the elctric pump, it over-pressurizes the engine fuel loop as the T fitting at the filter is in local-loop mode. If/when the fuel warms up enough, then the fuel will loop back to the tank. My solution is to find a fuel pressure bypass (there should be one left over from the gas engine somewhere in the garage...) and have it prevent the elctric pump from over-pressurizing the engine loop. I'll experiment this week on that fix.

I had it out yesterday again; got it up to 60mph in 4th gear. It was hardly working; I'm guessing somewhere around 2,500 RPM's (forgot to take my laptop with me). Fifth gear might not see much action if this keeps up!
 

bikeprof

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 2, 2005
Location
Pagosa Springs, Colorado(YEAH!)
TDI
1996 Passat B4 Variant white, 1996 Town & Country 3.8 LXI
Gosh, Gosh, how nice when it ALL smooths out.

There are electrical fuel pumps that you can adjust, also install a fuel gate(kinda like a T, but with adjustments/gradients, actually a LARGER return fuel line may just do the trick, larger volume return to the tank.

NICE!
 

CFM

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2006
Location
Wells, Maine
TDI
1995 Saturn with a 1997 TDI drivetrain.
I remember G60ing used a Holley fuel pressure regulator in one of his Corrado TDI's, set for 4 lbs if I remember right. I was going to do this with my Saturn TDI, but ended up making an internal bypass inside the fuel tank instead.

Pretty cool that you are driving it! I took mine out for a few blasts down the road on Saturday; the boost gauge got up to about 17-18 lbs. It pulls like a train!
 

Frankendiesel

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2008
Location
Cedar Rapids, IA
TDI
2000 Beetle TDI
Hmm. Seems like a drill press would be all that's needed to ream out the plastic T and have a DIY widget. I was wondering if I should bypass that, but I live up in the frozen north. After -30° weather last year, I think I want to have warm fuel, which means I need a fuel pressure regulator. 4psi sounds about right; my buddy was thinking 2 or 3. I'm kind of kicking myself now; the electric pump had a local bypass pressure regulator, but I disabled it <ahem> permanently. :(

CFM: My boost gauge last week was spiking at 17psi. Now it peaks at 15. I'm wondering what could have changed. :confused: My little wastegate controller might already be getting tired; the ECM sure pulses that little dude heavily. Anyway, I did have one question for you: How's the noise level from under the hood? I'm actually a little disappointed with the amount of intake noise and am considering making my own de-resonance tube. The exhaust might also need it's resonator installed; I opt'ed not to install that last year. It sounds nice outside the cabin, but at idle, it's a serious rumble inside!

Thanks All!
 

Frankendiesel

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2008
Location
Cedar Rapids, IA
TDI
2000 Beetle TDI
Update

Well, I've been driving Frankenvan around town the last few months and it is going quite well so far. One bug cropped up right away - front motor mount bushing looks like it is worn causing the metal mount to rattle against the frame rail. I get a LOT of vibration from this little issue.

The intake manifold is very loud without a resonator. I found a website that has an equation on how to tune/build your own reso cavity. I'll be trying that sometime soon to try to eliminate noise. I just couldn't fit the Jetta's airbox under the hood.

I was looking forward to pulling into the diesel stations and get weird looks from folks as I fuel up a minivan. Well, my lesson in humility continues as I haven't needed to fill up yet!! My odometer isn't working yet, but I'd guess I'm getting about 2X the fuel mileage as my gasser minivan is getting (it does about 19 to 20 in town). That darn fuel gauge just doesn't move very fast!

My clutch master cylinder needed to be adjusted a few weeks back as it was making that metal-on-metal binding noise and wasn't returning all the way. I didn't align the master to the push-rod quite right, so I had to take it out and redrill some holes to allow for adjustment. Seems to be OK now, but I did notice today it was squeaking again.

I don't remember if I posted this or not, but I bypassed the fuel temperature return loop at the fuel filter. It loops back to the tank full time now to prevent the in-tank pump from pressurizing the under hood loop. Seems to be working OK so far, but I'm thinking I might want to get a bypass fuel pressure regulator as other folks have suggested. Will have to see.

Travis
 

owr084

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 20, 2004
Location
Northern Virginia (NoVA)
TDI
Passat GLS, 2005, Stonehenge Gray
Nice. I yearn for a diesel minivan.

If anyone from VWoA is reading this - I want a 7 passenger minivan on a VW chassis (let's just try to forget about the Routan) with a diesel that gets more than 30mpg and costs less than $30K. Just let me know when I can place my deposit...
 

CFM

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2006
Location
Wells, Maine
TDI
1995 Saturn with a 1997 TDI drivetrain.
Haven't done much with the Saturn TDI project lately (I worked some insane hours this week), but I really admire how your swap turned out! I can't wait to put mine on the road!
 

Frankendiesel

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2008
Location
Cedar Rapids, IA
TDI
2000 Beetle TDI
owr084, that's exactly what lead me to put this thing together! There is just no excuse why no one has a diesel minivan in their lineup.

Current update; I found out my VSS didn't have +12 or Gnd. That wiring was completely missing on my Mitchel Manual schematics, so naturally I didn't hook them up! :rolleyes: (Anyone remember the pictures of the wiring harness I had to completely reassemble?) So maybe tomorrow, I'll get those hooked up and see if I can get the Chrysler computer to at least recognize the speed signal (calibration to come later). I'll bug my '98 Gasser and make sure it isn't too strong of a signal first though. I'm going to have trouble with the tach signal, I can tell that already. My other electrical engineer friend and I poured over the Chrysler schematics. We see no tachometer insertion point short of tearing the instrument cluster out and feeding the gauge directly. I assume there is some sort of DAC on the instrument cluster (the gauges don't act like stepper motors, so I'm assuming it's a simple analog gauge). Anyone ever had one apart? It appears the VW signal could possibly drive a gauge directly (+12Vpk square wave). So perhaps with a frequency converter, I can feed it a properly calibrated signal directly.

CFM, it occurred to me the other day that there is a far easier way to calibrate your tachometer - just look at the OBDII stream. The ECU knows exactly what's going on.
 

compu_85

Gadget Guy
Joined
Sep 29, 2003
Location
La Conner, WA
TDI
... None :S
I think all the gauges in the Dodge cluster use stepper motors. If you hold the trip / reset button in as you turn the key on you can make it do an output test.

-Jason
 

ChubsAuto

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Mar 10, 2008
Location
Central Illinois
TDI
2005 TDI Passat, 2003 Jetta Sedan
I just recently replaced a cluster in a customers 98 caravan due to an intermittent CCD bus communication issue, I saved the circuit board out of it if you would like one to experiment with.
 

Frankendiesel

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2008
Location
Cedar Rapids, IA
TDI
2000 Beetle TDI
The next generation up of Chryslers can do the gauge cluster test, ours does not.

Didn't get around to fixing the VSS today. Maybe sometime this week.

dewhite, I'll PM you. That sounds like a great idea.
 

ChubsAuto

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Mar 10, 2008
Location
Central Illinois
TDI
2005 TDI Passat, 2003 Jetta Sedan
http://www.kolumbus.fi/juha.niinikoski/CCD_bus/ccd_display.htm
There is an article about the CCD bus system and how to hack into it, if you could write data to the CCD you could fully control your cluster and just about anything else in that van. It would require some programming and some circuit building but it may be the simplest way to make everything work properly and look factory.
 

Frankendiesel

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2008
Location
Cedar Rapids, IA
TDI
2000 Beetle TDI
dewhite2485@hotmail.com said:
http://www.kolumbus.fi/juha.niinikoski/CCD_bus/ccd_display.htm
There is an article about the CCD bus system and how to hack into it, if you could write data to the CCD you could fully control your cluster and just about anything else in that van. It would require some programming and some circuit building but it may be the simplest way to make everything work properly and look factory.
Yeah, I've actually been to that page when looking for CCD bus information. He's pretty much the only guy out there who has done much with this bus. Anyway, he can listen, but can't talk. No one I've found knows the protocol to talk, only listen. There are a few CCD chips I've found datasheets on, and they don't even talk about the protocol. It seems Chrysler has either put enough bars around this bus to keep it proprietary, or no one has enough interest in hacking it. :rolleyes: I'll go with plan A, driving the gauge directly for now. Otherwise, if anyone else knows a CCD hack, let me know. Just like you said, if you can talk on the CCD bus, you can pretty much control the whole van! :cool:

FYI, filled up tonight with diesel. I'm going to use the trip odometer function on my GPS to get fuel mileage data. I'll try to get 100 or miles or so before I fill up and run the numbers.

TLG
 

compu_85

Gadget Guy
Joined
Sep 29, 2003
Location
La Conner, WA
TDI
... None :S
Frankendiesel said:
The next generation up of Chryslers can do the gauge cluster test, ours does not.
When did the next generation start? 99? That's what my mom's is, it does the test fine.

-Jason
 

Frankendiesel

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2008
Location
Cedar Rapids, IA
TDI
2000 Beetle TDI
Actually the next generation started with the 2001 model year. I know they redid the interior somewhere in that 2000 model year though, so that doesn't surprise me.
 

Frankendiesel

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2008
Location
Cedar Rapids, IA
TDI
2000 Beetle TDI
Help - My fuel gauge is stuck on F!!

According to my trusty GPS, I've driven almost 97 miles since filling up. The fuel gauge needle....hasn't budged. Amazing. I'll go fill up tomorrow and get some data to post.

Errata:

If you stall the engine, you have to turn the key off, then back on & crank. If you simply try to recrank, it will NOT fire. Is this just me? I know in the VeeDubs, there is a mechanical stop in the ignition tumbler that prevents you from turning the key to re-crank.

When I first start it up, the ECU is ignoring the accelerator pedal until you mash it once. Then it will recognize it and bring the idle down. I know this is because I'm using an ALH pedal, I just don't quite know to fix it. I've already put a resistor in series with the wiper to bring the idle down. I may need to put one in series with the element. Anyone...??? :confused:

I wired up +12V to the VSS yesterday, but I couldn't get a waveform to show up on the oscilloscope at the dash cluster harness. I need to fire up VCDS to see if the ECU is seeing anything.

There is some strange surging issues when you shift too early into the next gear. Most notably in the 2-3 and 3-4 shift. It will really surge badly - you have to let up on the clutch to stop it. I remember reading the guy with the Lupo-Insight hybrid was having surging issues and made them go away when he hooked up the brake lamp signal. I need to try that.

Travis
 
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owr084

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 20, 2004
Location
Northern Virginia (NoVA)
TDI
Passat GLS, 2005, Stonehenge Gray
Frankendiesel said:
If you stall the engine, you have to turn the key off, then back on & crank. If you simply try to recrank, it will NOT fire. Is this just me? I know in the VeeDubs, there is a mechanical stop in the ignition tumbler that prevents you from turning the key to re-crank.
That's not a bug, it's a feature ;) It's coded that way to prevent you from destroying the starter and the associated gears if you try to start a running engine.
 

Frankendiesel

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2008
Location
Cedar Rapids, IA
TDI
2000 Beetle TDI
You Can't Weld This

Had a major failure on Thursday. :( One of the half shafts snapped in two on my way home. Pulled out into traffic, put the screws to it, and it snapped. Right at the weld. Found out after some quick research that you should not cut and weld half shafts. The steel is treated to flex like a torsion bar. The welding must have hardened the steel cause it snapped clean at one of the welds. So my next step is to try to find a shop that can spline the two, then assemble them with a splined coupler and hold the coupler on with clips. That should work, but I'm open to any other suggestions.

Thanks,

Travis
 

owr084

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 20, 2004
Location
Northern Virginia (NoVA)
TDI
Passat GLS, 2005, Stonehenge Gray
I don't know about a splined coupler. Wouldn't that just add an additional stress point to the shaft (ione on each side of the coupler)? Like you mentioned, the shaft should flex like a bow. Now you've added a coupler which will have different characteristics than the shaft and will not flex the same way.

What about cutting down a longer shaft by lopping off the end?
 

Tdi Kick

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2009
Location
GTA
TDI
91 Sidekick AHU, '05 Passat Variant BHW, '03 Passat Variant BHW 4MO
Me! Me! I know this one!

This is me waving my hand at the teacher excitedly!:D:D

Frankendiesel said:
If you stall the engine, you have to turn the key off, then back on & crank. If you simply try to recrank, it will NOT fire. Is this just me? I know in the VeeDubs, there is a mechanical stop in the ignition tumbler that prevents you from turning the key to re-crank.

When I first start it up, the ECU is ignoring the accelerator pedal until you mash it once. Then it will recognize it and bring the idle down. I know this is because I'm using an ALH pedal, I just don't quite know to fix it.

There is some strange surging issues when you shift too early into the next gear. Most notably in the 2-3 and 3-4 shift. It will really surge badly - you have to let up on the clutch to stop it. I remember reading the guy with the Lupo-Insight hybrid was having surging issues and made them go away when he hooked up the brake lamp signal. I need to try that.

Travis
Believe it or not, I have the same "problem" with the AHU in my 'Kick. If I happen to stall it, It will not start unless I cycle key OFF then crank. I can crank it all day and it wont fire until re-cycling the key. This has nothing to do with saving starter gears. The starter still engages.;)

As for the "ignoring" the go-pedal, I had a similar, though not exact problem: Mine would start, and then drive like 10 feet, then just return to idle. Not STALL, mind you, just idle, leaves you hanging:rolleyes:. Release the pedal, press again and would drive all day long like nothing happened... Until you parked and switched off, went for pizza etc, and then started up again... ONLY on the FIRST press of the go-pedal after starting, did this happen.

I also had surging issues. I dont recall them being EXACTLY the same as you describe, yet most definitely there.

BOTH the go-pedal and surging problems went away when I hooked up brake and clutch switches. I dont have them on a brake LIGHT signal, I wired them up thru micro switches to ground. Jackbombay posted with the hookups for cruise control, I followed that. I have no need for cruise, yet it solved these challenges. I have no idea if or how your alh pedal plays in to this, though...

PS---> I havent read the WHOLE thread, so If I've posted something mentioned before, I apologize.

37 mpg!??! WOW!

Thats Awesome! What's this thing weigh?

Cheers!
 

CFM

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2006
Location
Wells, Maine
TDI
1995 Saturn with a 1997 TDI drivetrain.
When I built the axles for my Saturn TDI, I had some bushings machined that the Saturn axle end was pressed into; I TIG-welded the bushing at the end, then pressed it into the hollow VW axle and welded that together.

Not sure what to tell you about the surging; on mine, the motor doesn't like to loaf along below 1500 rpm. I'm going to change the timing belt on it and see if I can get a VAG-com to dial-in the injector pump, pretty sure that it's off a bit. Otherwise it runs great!
 

jjordan11

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2008
Location
Lehi, UT
TDI
1988 Audi 80 quattro PD130, 1982 Westfalia TDI
Along with the clutch & brake pedal switches, the surging could possibly be caused by the injection quantity (like CFM stated). Whenever we've done any modifying to our AHU/1Z vehicles I always have to fine tune the IQ through the Adaption (channel 1 from memory). I believe there are some pretty good write-ups on how to adjust it. If not drop me a pm and I'll help.

I used to not be able to cruise in 5th gear at around 1000 rpms (35-38mph) it would surge and start bucking pretty badly, but after playing with the IQ it's able to go just fine at any rpms.
 

Frankendiesel

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2008
Location
Cedar Rapids, IA
TDI
2000 Beetle TDI
Half Shaft Failure Analysis

Here's some picture of the carnage:





Thanks for your input everyone. I'm working with some mechanical engineers to figure out the best way to get these half shafts setup properly. I read some forums on racing pages about welding half shafts...they say don't do it. CFM, does TIG welding induce a lower temperature on the welded material? If so, yours might be in a little better shape. It took about 500 miles for mine to snap. Right now, we're leaning towards repairing (with a longer bushing to compensate for the broken piece!) and then annealing them both to neutralize the localized hardening effect. At least, that's our theory for now.

Also, thanks for all the input on the surging. I'll try to get the brake and clutch switches wired in properly. Right now, I have the clutch switched 'bypassed.' That is, a jumper in the connector so I can start it! IOW, the ECU thinks the clutch is depressed all the time. If that and the new AHU pedal don't make the surging go away, I'll look at the injection adjustment as recommended.

Thanks again!
 

Frankendiesel

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2008
Location
Cedar Rapids, IA
TDI
2000 Beetle TDI
Tdi Kick said:
This is me waving my hand at the teacher excitedly!:D:D
Yes, Tdi Kick, please share with the class. :D
Tdi Kick said:
Believe it or not, I have the same "problem" with the AHU in my 'Kick. If I happen to stall it, It will not start unless I cycle key OFF then crank. I can crank it all day and it wont fire until re-cycling the key. This has nothing to do with saving starter gears. The starter still engages.
Yeah, weird huh. For now, it's just an anomaly. I can see my wife in traffic trying frantically to restart it. :confused: More training required...
Tdi Kick said:
As for the "ignoring" the go-pedal, I had a similar, though not exact problem: Mine would start, and then drive like 10 feet, then just return to idle. Not STALL, mind you, just idle, leaves you hanging:rolleyes:. Release the pedal, press again and would drive all day long like nothing happened... Until you parked and switched off, went for pizza etc, and then started up again... ONLY on the FIRST press of the go-pedal after starting, did this happen.
Well, that's similar. This *should* disappear altogether when I get my AHU pedal installed (and brake/clutch switches wired in). I'll have an AHU go pedal for sale sometime soon.
Tdi Kick said:
I have no need for cruise, yet it solved these challenges.
NO CRUISE?! :p Yeah, I don't have a pressing need either until this bucket of bolts is proven to be reliable.
Tdi Kick said:
37 mpg!??! WOW! Thats Awesome! What's this thing weigh?
Yes, I'm quite pleased with the initial numbers. That's mostly in-town driving too. Curb weight is about 3,800 lbs. Which is about 400 lbs lighter than my 300SD!
 
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