Renewable diesel

I was reading about renewable diesel recently. It is a low carbon drop-in ULSD replacement unlike biodiesel. It is available in California at Propel stations where they call it HPR. It sells for $4 a gallon which is slightly higher than regular ULSD. Has anyone here tried it?


https://cleancities.energy.gov/file...cCormick___Alleman_RD_Overview_2016_07_18.pdf


https://propelfuels.com/our_fuels
Clean Diesel Power


– Increased power and torque
– Higher cetane than regular diesel
– Cleaner combustion and emissions

Diesel HPR meets the ASTM D975
diesel specification for use in diesel engines.


The Benefits of Diesel HPR

Fueling with Diesel HPR Propel Diesel HPR is a premium fuel engineered to maximize performance of your clean diesel engine. Diesel HPR meets the ASTM D975 diesel specification (ULSD) for use in all diesel engines. Refined from recycled fats and oils, Diesel HPR outperforms both petroleum diesel and biodiesel in performance, emissions and value.


Performance Performance formulated Diesel HPR has a cetane rating up to 75+, 40% higher than regular diesel, for smoother combustion and a better ride. Diesel HPR combusts more efficiently, which means more power and torque for your rig. And unlike biodiesel, Diesel HPR provides uncompromised cold weather performance. Diesel HPR is additized to provide excellent lubricity in all driving conditions and exceeds ULSD lubricity specification.

Renewable Propel Diesel HPR is not biodiesel, however, it is manufactured from similar renewable biomass sources including recycled fats and oils. Refined from renewable biomass through advanced hydrotreating technology, Propel Diesel HPR meets the toughest specifications required by automotive and engine manufacturers. This allows Diesel HPR to be used by any diesel vehicle.

Air Quality and Environment The California Air Resources Board classifies Diesel HPR, also known as renewable diesel, as an ultra-low carbon fuel. The fuel can achieve a 40-80% reduction in greenhouse gas emissions compared to fossil diesel. In addition, Propel Diesel HPR:
- Reduces NOx emissions by up to 14% and particulates (PM 2.5) by 34% compared to petroleum diesel
- Is sulfur-free, aromatics-free and virtually odorless, in 100% renewable diesel form

Outperforming B20 Diesel HPR outperforms Biodiesel B20, delivering more power and lower emissions. Diesel HPR is made from 98% renewable content, while B20 biodiesel is 20% renewable and 80% petroleum. Unlike biodiesel, Diesel HPR provides uncompromised cold weather performance.

Yes I’ve been using it for a couple years. It’s great if you have a new diesel with DPF and stuff.

Less power.
Less MPGs. Expect about 10% less per gallon in my experience. My ‘09 Jetta 6MT consistently got 33 MPGs combined with it. My 2.8 Duramax 4x4 Canyon gets 23-24 combined on it.

Runs very smooth. Less diesel “knock”. Exhaust doesn’t smell as bad.

Tried it on my ‘03 golf 50/50 with D2 and I got a small leak on the return line to the IP. It seems that this stuff commonly causes leaks for members here. Coincidently I stopped using it and the leak I had went away.

Typically $0.10 a gallon cheaper than Chevron diesel #2.

Use of renewable diesel is increasing significantly in California.

https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=37472#

At $4 a gallon it would have a tough time competing anywhere else, except Hawaii maybe. D2 is only $2.94 here. No one would buy it.

Lightflyer1 said:

At $4 a gallon it would have a tough time competing anywhere else, except Hawaii maybe. D2 is only $2.94 here. No one would buy it.

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It’s subsidized by the state of CA which is why it’s the same price as D2. I suspect the actual cost of buying it is significantly higher.

I hate to say it, there is no such thing as " renewable Diesel ". You run it in your car and it's gone forever.

Just as there is no recycled toilet paper.

I've been using it in my 335d and alh golf, I notice right off the bat less MPG between 1-2 miles per gal, my cars starts right up, more quiet and less smoke, about more power I do not know, if someone can chime in it would be nice on that, it claims to have 75 cetane,

Maxrpm, you're obviously doing something wrong when you get 57 Mpg driving like your granny.
There are tons of people in these forum pages who drive 85 Mph and get 65 Mpg

It sounds like renewable diesel is unpopular on older TDIs. In my case with a 2015 GSW, should I buy renewable diesel at Propel when I drive through California (if the price is the same as regular diesel) or avoid it?

Jetta_Pilot said:

Maxrpm, you're obviously doing something wrong when you get 57 Mpg driving like your granny.
There are tons of people in these forum pages who drive 85 Mph and get 65 Mpg

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there are also a lot of people that made better mpg than me, that and did not have the mods that I had in my golf, at 250hp back then it was great getting 57mpg driving like a granny on a really bumped up TDI, it sure felt good.

Jetta_Pilot said:

I hate to say it, there is no such thing as " renewable Diesel ". You run it in your car and it's gone forever.
Just as there is no recycled toilet paper.

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You know we live in a closed system, right?
Burning the fuel produces water and CO2 which plants convert into biomass which
humans convert into fuel. So, renewable. Only the sunlight gets added along the way.
For that matter, toilet paper degrades into the same gasses that feed more trees, etc.

I use Propel Renewable diesel in both my '03 Golf and my '14 Golf. No issues whatsoever. It's a fantastic fuel - probably the best diesel fuel produced. However, keep in mind, lubricity is still a concern. Renewable diesel has slightly better lubricity than standard garbage ULSD fuel(IMHO, you should avoid ULSD fuel whenever possible), which means you should ALWAYS be using additives that enhance said lubricity at every fill-up. Especially for the new common-rail diesels that depend on the rather fragile CP4 fuel pump.

It's best to find a biodiesel supplier and mix in a quart or two of B20(B20 acts as the absolute best lubricity additive) with a full tank of renewable. On top of that, you could also add in a splash of Diesel Kleen, or Shaffer's Diesel Treat. This may sound a bit overboard, but believe me, it's needed if you want these mechanical parts to last.

Right. There are those who never use an additive and go hundreds of thousands of miles and never have an issue. Probably more than those who do use an additive. You just never hear them post. Your post makes it sound like the sky is falling, it isn't. ULSD isn't garbage and it is mostly the only thing available, anywhere. A little bio in it also does wonders for lubricity and a lot of ULSD is already sold with it today. No sky is falling posts needed. It sounds way, way overboard. You are new here so read up a little. Enjoy tdiclub!

lmao....and there is an abundance of documented evidence of many individuals who have suffered catastrophic fuel system failure. Simple research will show you that ULSD alone doesn't technically provide enough lubricity for Bosch CP4 HPFPs, nor is it properly filtered down at an acceptable level(the design of the CP4 piston and roller bearing absolutely depends on fuel filtered down as best as possible) - not nearly as well as HPR. There are countless posts on this subject, some of which are even on this very site.

To quote a user from another post, "USA ULS diesel fuel lubricity standard: 520 micron scar rating"(HPR is 500 Max, according to their spec sheet). "Bosch CP4 HPFP fuel lubricity minimum requirement: 460 micron scar rating (9/2009 publishing date)". So, unless you wish to gamble with lousy American ULSD fuel, and bring about the possibility of metal shavings in your fuel system taking out your injectors and aux fuel pumps, I suggest you play it safe and add the proper additives for the right amount of lubrication of moving metal components. HPR will help lower the possibility of pump failure.

I highly recommend anyone with a CR design engine study exactly how these CP3 & CP4 pumps work, to understand what the issue is. Again, I'm simply reiterating a VERY well known problem, and I believe, as an enthusiast, it is best to go the extra mile for these wonderful cars, even if the newer CR diesels have an Achilles heel. So, what is the problem with attempting to obtain a lubricity level that these pumps are rated for?

Just because the standard is 520 doesn't mean all the fuel coming out of pumps everywhere is at that. Go look at some of the random testing done and you will find that the vast majority are way below that. This study was done in 2014. The 2018 results will be coming out soon.

https://www.infineum.com/media/80722/wdfs-2014-full-screen.pdf

Because the majority of the fuel is already there. Just find some with any bio content in it and you are done. Most of the fuel has some small percentage anyway and it doesn't take much.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I certainly hope you are right. That would be great piece of mind. Either way, it can be difficult to tell just how much biodiesel exists at any particular fuel station, let alone what kind of biodiesel it is (soy is supposed to have the best lubricity). Here in San Diego, bio is becoming scarce(it's all over the place up north near San Fran), and I'm not entirely sure how much stations are adding into their mix of ULSD. Given that, I thought it logically sound to take it a step further and continuously ensure I'm running the absolute best fuel + lubricity possible, for engine health and environmental reasons - sure. But really, it's just an attempt to remain as consistent as possible, in order to help prevent potential failure. Yes, It's easy to get obsessive over it, but hey, don't we love our cars?

Personally, I like HPR a lot, and if anybody should chose to run it for any reason, keeping the EGR, intake, fuel filters clean for a much longer period of time is a compelling reason, I think.

Thank you for the warm welcome to TDIclub, I forgot to mention that previously.

I use both on my 4 TDI cars, my mk4 Jetta, CR 15 passat use D2, and my mk4 golf and 335D HPR, I can tell you that passat has used D2 and already got 100K and no issues so far, no additives added either, my other 3 cars I use additives diesel kleen and ashless 2 stroke oil,

my analogy is D2 is great and so far HPR too, I try to stay away from no names gas stations when it comes to fill up D2, and look for busy stations so I can get a fresh batch of D2

I use both on my 4 TDI cars, my mk4 Jetta, CR 15 passat use D2, and my mk4 golf and 335D HPR, I can tell you that passat has used D2 and already got 100K and no issues so far, no additives added either, my other 3 cars I use additives diesel kleen and ashless 2 stroke oil,

my analogy is D2 is great and so far HPR too, I try to stay away from no names gas stations when it comes to fill up D2, and look for busy stations so I can get a fresh batch of D2

I'm glad to read that you have gone that many miles with your Passat, and that it has been worry free. Makes me feel a bit better about my '14 golf!

Keep in mind, I never said these CP4 pumps suffer a 100% failure rate if the recommended lubricity isn't reached(I believe Bosch calculated that running these pumps consistently on a fuel with a wear rating of 520, the lifespan is nearly cut in half. Of course, due to how much fuel quality seems to vary from station to station, this wouldn't really be the case outside of a lab). I am, however, merely suggesting it might be best to keep everything well within the original specifications drafted up by Bosch engineers, if you are at all worried about it. All I have to show for this effort thus far is absolutely no metal shavings anywhere in the fuel systems of any of the diesels I've ever owned, so that's enough to make me happy. BTW, Diesel Kleen is great.
Check this out:

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1784831

In-depth analysis of all the different additives and their HFRR values

The "Spicer" report you refer to has been discussed here already for years. Bio was the winner there and if you see 2% resulted in a 415 micron improvement, better than any of the others. That is why I said if you find a fuel with bio in it at even very small percentages, you will probably not have to worry. My local station sells fuel that is "up to" 20% bio. I don't worry about lubricity. When not using my local station I try and find one that just has any bio content. Not hard to do. Some states don't even mandate anything under 5% be posted at all. So you may be getting some bio percentage and not even know it. Good luck with you car but the issue you were so concerned about, isn't in reality.

Lightflyer1 said:

Right. There are those who never use an additive and go hundreds of thousands of miles and never have an issue. Probably more than those who do use an additive. You just never hear them post. Your post makes it sound like the sky is falling, it isn't. ULSD isn't garbage and it is mostly the only thing available, anywhere. A little bio in it also does wonders for lubricity and a lot of ULSD is already sold with it today. No sky is falling posts needed. It sounds way, way overboard. You are new here so read up a little. Enjoy tdiclub!

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I agree.

My 2000 Jetta (son owns it now), is at 371k miles. I probably never added more than 20 ounces of anything to its fuel. The IP and Injectors are original. It still gets over 50 mpg tank after tank! I believe the body will be gone before the fueling system fails at 500k miles!

Some fuel additives are no more than snake oil.

I agree 100% that bio-diesel is an extremely good lubricant. However, it is not available everywhere and I have no plans to drive out of my way for it.

I've only used bio one time that I am aware of. I used it in the ALH engine in my Vanagon one time (100% bio as I recall). I stopped at an exit and was very low on fuel. The station I pulled into had bio. So, why not! I filled the tank. About two months later the rubber grommets for the vents on the fuel tank were leaking..

EDIT: Quite different than MAXRPM, I've never preferred one brand over another and generally purchase where it's the cheapest.

Bio diesel is a non entity east of the farm belt. I drive north to south FL every yr as well to Ohio and south to Alabama. Never see bio diesel on Rt95 and 77.

I just buy a gallon of PS for 18.00 and add 6 ozs with each fill up. Cheap insurance . Worked on my TDIs for 10yrs.

I always love hearing stories about how far these cars will go. I too, have an ALH engine in a golf, and it’s a fantastic little motor. The Bosch rotary pump is a much more robust design when compared to the cp4, or maybe we could say that it’s much less susceptible to fuel lubricity differences. At one point, I seem to recall fueling stations in Southern California specifically stating how much bio is mixed within their fuels. This appears to have gone away, hence my confusion/concern.

biodieselboy said:

I always love hearing stories about how far these cars will go. I too, have an ALH engine in a golf, and it’s a fantastic little motor. The Bosch rotary pump is a much more robust design when compared to the cp4, or maybe we could say that it’s much less susceptible to fuel lubricity differences. At one point, I seem to recall fueling stations in Southern California specifically stating how much bio is mixed within their fuels. This appears to have gone away, hence my confusion/concern.

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B20 is readily available at many truck stops in CA. I never use it and find straight D2 at other stations for a higher price.

Ironically you’re recommending Biodiesel to be used in modern HPCR diesels yet B20 is not compatible with many if not most light duty engines. I once looked at an ‘03 ALH that was on its 4th injector pump at 100k miles due to bad or contaminated Biodiesel. Anybody who intentionally uses Biodiesel is taking a big risk IMO. It’s not worth it.

Bio in small concentrations is what I’m speaking of - the reason why a mixture of B20 is bad has to do with injector wear from very high fuel temperatures at the nozzle. As Lightflyer1 pointed out, many stations are already adding in bio with their fuel. I was in error to assume this wasn't the case. The numbers and calculations Bosch came out with concerning ULSD fuel are only relevant to that fuel only. The numbers go right out the window when fuel distributors start mixing in bio for lubricity.

So here's my point, and then I'll shut up. I do not believe Propel mixes any bio with their HPR brand of fuel. Therefore, we can only assume that at any given time, their fuel has a documented wear rating of near 500. This might be better or worse than other available fuel in the area. If the OP plans on using HPR, it might be best just to mix in something else along with it just to be safe.

biodieselboy said:

I use Propel Renewable diesel in both my '03 Golf and my '14 Golf. No issues whatsoever. It's a fantastic fuel - probably the best diesel fuel produced. However, keep in mind, lubricity is still a concern. Renewable diesel has slightly better lubricity than standard garbage ULSD fuel(IMHO, you should avoid ULSD fuel whenever possible), which means you should ALWAYS be using additives that enhance said lubricity at every fill-up. Especially for the new common-rail diesels that depend on the rather fragile CP4 fuel pump.

It's best to find a biodiesel supplier and mix in a quart or two of B20(B20 acts as the absolute best lubricity additive) with a full tank of renewable. On top of that, you could also add in a splash of Diesel Kleen, or Shaffer's Diesel Treat. This may sound a bit overboard, but believe me, it's needed if you want these mechanical parts to last.

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Not to mention you are using Propel which claims to only meet the max of 500 scar rating similar to ULSD max scar rating (ASTM D975 - 520). Yet complain about regular diesel which is additized to below that which Propel is in most instances. Usually in the 200 to 300 range. Finding B100 anywhere now days if tough. B20 or less at the pump is widely available if wanted. Dump in an additive if you need one to make you feel better.

I was making the erroneous assumption that ULSD fueling stations were no longer adding bio. After further research, I will gladly concede that real world lubricity numbers are most likely well below 520, as bio is still mixed in. So, I retract my initial complaint about D2. I still have no wish to use it, because I like cleaner burning fuel.

You have a late model tdi with some of the best emissions controls available today. It is already one of the cleanest running cars out there. I would say HPR really isn't helping that much and at what cost? What is the price difference between diesel and HPR? Since the advent of ULSD the fuel is much cleaner than it used to be.

Currently, HPR here in San Diego is $3.79, which is pretty competitive in this area. I like the idea of burning renewable fuels - I do not like fossil fuel. Personal beliefs aside, HPR still is a much better filtered and controlled fuel when compared to D2(I know this to be factual, as all clear inline filters I’ve used on older diesels stay clean for much longer when using HPR). According to reports posted, it does burn cleaner in any engine, regardless of emissions equipment. So yes, these CJAA engines are very advanced, but they’ll burn even cleaner when using renewable.

CleverUserName said:

B20 is readily available at many truck stops in CA. I never use it and find straight D2 at other stations for a higher price.
Ironically you’re recommending Biodiesel to be used in modern HPCR diesels yet B20 is not compatible with many if not most light duty engines. I once looked at an ‘03 ALH that was on its 4th injector pump at 100k miles due to bad or contaminated Biodiesel. Anybody who intentionally uses Biodiesel is taking a big risk IMO. It’s not worth it.

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Biodiesel is also hygroscopic and has a different viscosity than D2. This is the biggest issue IMO and creates significant risk in using it with a HPCR system as they are extremely sensitive to both water and viscosity. Besides the inconsistent QC.

Lightflyer1 said:

You have a late model tdi with some of the best emissions controls available today. It is already one of the cleanest running cars out there. I would say HPR really isn't helping that much and at what cost? What is the price difference between diesel and HPR? Since the advent of ULSD the fuel is much cleaner than it used to be.

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HPR is great for post 2008 emissions controlled diesels. Less soot means longer time between DPF regenerations and less EGR valve and intake fouling. You will also notice it takes longer for your oil to turn black after an oil change. As with all high cetane fuels, there is an unfortunate slight loss of power, felt as reduced low end torque and the resulting fuel economy loss.

I don’t use HPR in my ALH but it works great in my 2.8 Duramax and CBEA.