B6 S4 bhw compound turbo build

Machineman

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2007 RS4 Titanium 3.0TDI & 2013 Touareg TDI & B6 S4 BHW Swap Biturbo
Yes as I already have the motor it's been sitting for 3 years the only issue is the 3l was never meant to go to a B6 platform
 

1.4TDI PD

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The B7 is almost identical to the B6 platform and it houses the 3.0TDI V6 i have a B6 2.5TDI and i think that you will be able to squeeze the 3.0TDI in as it"s size is very similar to the 2.5TDI. And the 3.0TDI has got huge tuning potential as it"s common rail and has got quite a big displacement. I wish you all luck with the project and looking forward to the build thread.
 

adamss24

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audi a4 2.5 tdi 98 quatrro 6speed
The B7 is almost identical to the B6 platform and it houses the 3.0TDI V6 i have a B6 2.5TDI and i think that you will be able to squeeze the 3.0TDI in as it"s size is very similar to the 2.5TDI. And the 3.0TDI has got huge tuning potential as it"s common rail and has got quite a big displacement. I wish you all luck with the project and looking forward to the build thread.
The issue is that almost everything is different between early 2.5 v6 tdi driveline on the b6 and 3.0 tdi on the b7 platform. Different gearbox, different wiring loom, different ecu’s, ABS pumps, etc. physical fitting of parts is just one part of the problem. The 2.5 tdi has also massive tuning potential, 300 Bhp is just a turbo + nozzle swap away. In the OP
Case jumping from a 8 cyl Petrol engine to a 4 pot diesel engine then to a 6 cyl diesel lump is quite a feat ! Hats off to you...
 
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adamss24

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audi a4 2.5 tdi 98 quatrro 6speed
The early b7 3.0 tdi was offered with manual transmission in 233 Bhp, the gearbox is quite different to the getrag 01E as fitted to the 2.5 tdi and a lot weaker. It was torque and Bhp limited compared to the automatic gearbox that was available with 240 Bhp on same platform. The flywheels are different between the 2.5 tdi and 3.0 tdi but I am sure that the OP is more than capable to adapt it somehow ! Best to source a whole 3.0 tdi from a b7 and graft that onto the s6 body...
Also to note is that 233bhp manual gearbox ran a KKK bv50 turbocharger and Siemens engine management, later auto’s were Bosch edc 16 and Gtb2260vk. I would look for a 2.7 tdi engine management, they came with Bosch edc16 and gtb1756vk, much much easier to convert...still same issues with driveline though !
 

Machineman

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2007 RS4 Titanium 3.0TDI & 2013 Touareg TDI & B6 S4 BHW Swap Biturbo
Hey adamss24 I actually have some questions for you I heard you're the 2.5 expert I also have a 2.5 TDI allroad but I swapped that I can't get running because of injection pump problems .. and as for the 3 liter TDI I have all of the parts Associated to put it into a B7 I imported these parts several years ago and it's all been sitting I have a harness and ECU edc16 from a bkn I also have a dual-mass flywheel and clutch from 3.0tdi b7 I think from a fitment point of view it will bolt right in the firewall on the B7 is actually a different stamping to clear the DPF filter that's not a concern I will be running one anyways obviously as B6 and B7 so very similar if not identical my only concern is wiring I do understand that these are different platform as far as Electronics go but I'm not overly concerned about full functionality as it's my toy car still messing with the idea of getting a B7 but my B6 is very nice and I have a lot of money into it ...
 
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1.4TDI PD

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2.5TDI V6, 3.3TDI V8,3.0TDI V6,1.9TDI PD100
The issue is that almost everything is different between early 2.5 v6 tdi driveline on the b6 and 3.0 tdi on the b7 platform. Different gearbox, different wiring loom, different ecu’s, ABS pumps, etc. physical fitting of parts is just one part of the problem. The 2.5 tdi has also massive tuning potential, 300 Bhp is just a turbo + nozzle swap away. In the OP
Case jumping from a 8 cyl Petrol engine to a 4 pot diesel engine then to a 6 cyl diesel lump is quite a feat ! Hats off to you...
The 2.5Tdi is a very strong engine but the injection pump VP44 is very limited it can't supplie more then 55mg/str because it's limited by the IP ecu. You can put bigger turbo on and bigger nozzles but it want be the same as a commonrail where you can easily adjust the injection quantity.
 

diffas

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European B7s (atleast with engines ASB/BKN) 3.0tdis came with Getrag upgraded 466 as under name vag code 0A3, holds holds at least same power and has better syncros compared to 01E. I wouldnt be worried about that. Weaker link IMO is the DMF, since it starts usually stutter past 550nm. Also euro versions ASB and BKN use bosch edc16cp, so siemens probably for over seas or maybe not.

What comes to vp44 its just newer pumps that have heavy duration limiter on their ecu.
It's quite a shame nobody cracked the vp44-ecus since pumps itself are capable well over 600hp. Even with the smallest 6mm plungers 400hp+ is no joke. I like more 2.5tdis since they are more lively and rev happy compared long stroked big brothers. Cr system in 2.5tdi would be something beyond awesome. :p
 

Machineman

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Yes I agree I I like the 2.5 tdi's as they're very simple motor might is the ake 180 version and I'm not modifying it off right now because it's my reliable daily driver I'm going to end up ordering a brand new vp44 from germany can anyone comment whether a remanufactured pump from Germany is good ? Or should I send my old pump to diesel Bob in the UK for rebuilt ? Also my dual Mass flywheel still in my 4 cylinder twin turbo and I 80 pounds of boost I'm guessing the torque is somewhere over 500nm and it doesn't shutter at all I find with dmf once you find a good one you keep it
 

Machineman

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This is my 2.5 tdi allroad this is one of the only Allroad 2.5 in North America the engine I got was brand new crate engine from Germany :) it has zero kilometers on it so I figured it should be good for 200,000 kilometers before any serious issues and I will keep the oil changed every 5000 kms with synthetic
 

diffas

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You should able to repair your vp44 on canada, since its quite common pump in tractors and specially in cummins engines. Worth to ask. Usually it's only quantity adjuster transistor that fails but depending how much miles it has on it, it might need also mechanical repairs too.
 

1.4TDI PD

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European B7s (atleast with engines ASB/BKN) 3.0tdis came with Getrag upgraded 466 as under name vag code 0A3, holds holds at least same power and has better syncros compared to 01E. I wouldnt be worried about that. Weaker link IMO is the DMF, since it starts usually stutter past 550nm. Also euro versions ASB and BKN use bosch edc16cp, so siemens probably for over seas or maybe not.

What comes to vp44 its just newer pumps that have heavy duration limiter on their ecu.
It's quite a shame nobody cracked the vp44-ecus since pumps itself are capable well over 600hp. Even with the smallest 6mm plungers 400hp+ is no joke. I like more 2.5tdis since they are more lively and rev happy compared long stroked big brothers. Cr system in 2.5tdi would be something beyond awesome. :p
Maybe you could modify the 3.3TDI V8 common rail injection system to work on the 2.5TDI the 3.3TDI V8 is basically just a extended 2.5tdi block it uses the same pistons the heads are longer but the same and the injectors should fit in the 2.5TDI heads you would need to block off the 2 injector ports on the fuel rail and install the high pressure pump in place of the VP44 and modify the ecu system a bit.
 

Machineman

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Which I have a spare set of lines and rails
And I also have a spare CP3 and a cp1
 

1.4TDI PD

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You could use a set of 3.0tdi fuel rails and cp3 or cp1 pump. The only problem then would be the ecu because the 3.3tdi uses dual ecu setup and each ecu controls 4 injectors the ecus are identical to what the 2.5tdi uses so you would need to do some rewiring and remaping and it should work in my opinion.
 
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Machineman

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You could use a set of 3.0tdi fuel rails and cp3 or cp1 pump. The only problem then would be the ecu because the 3.3tdi uses dual ecu setup and each ecu controls 4 injectors the ecus are identical to what the 2.5tdi uses so you would need to do some rewiring and remaping and it should work in my opinion.

Does the 2.5 TDI ECU have injector drivers thou ? As it's not required for a rotary pump technically I may be wrong 3.3 TDI injectors I'm assuming or solenoid based so they be easier to control
 

adamss24

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audi a4 2.5 tdi 98 quatrro 6speed
This is my 2.5 tdi allroad this is one of the only Allroad 2.5 in North America the engine I got was brand new crate engine from Germany :) it has zero kilometers on it so I figured it should be good for 200,000 kilometers before any serious issues and I will keep the oil changed every 5000 kms with synthetic
What is the issue the allroad engine doesn’t run ? As diff as mentioned, vp44 pumps can be easily repaired and with 3 plungers head and larger injector nozzles they can inject a lot of fuel. No dpf to worry about, simple electrics, clutches that can cope with over 500 Bhp are readily available but let down by the DMF-it starts to rumble as torque increases. Add a pair of cam roller heads, a modern turbo and a solid inter cooler/4 bar map sensor and it becomes a very nimble car !
As for the 3.0 tdi, get emission/IMO off, simplify the engine harness (intake manifolds flap delete, EGR off, etc.) and you should get it running pretty easily. The marine version of the v6 3.0 tdi has no emission implements so getting a tune for that might be an option. I can see that fabrication is your forte, you should have it running pretty easily once you sort the electrics ! Good luck with it !
 

Machineman

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The issue is I swap the car I haven't been able to get it running the injection pump on it was also brand new but this motor sat for 17 years with stale fuel ..... the car is throwing dtc codes for pump communication errors and measuring block 18 shows 0 pump volts also my ECU immobilizer has been deleted so I don't believe they require syncing the pump ???
 

1.4TDI PD

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Does the 2.5 TDI ECU have injector drivers thou ? As it's not required for a rotary pump technically I may be wrong 3.3 TDI injectors I'm assuming or solenoid based so they be easier to control
I don"t know if the 2.5tdi ecu has the injector drivers but the 3.3tdi injectors are solenoid based but they are working on 80V instead on 12V so each ECU is only able to control 4 injectors. I think that you could use the same dual ECUs on the 2.5tdi because most of the sensors are the same on both engines you would just need to disable two injectors so that there wouldn"t be any fault codes. You can find more about the 3.3tdi engine and injection system here https://drive.google.com/open?id=1t9fJyDA7i5skdw0IisPgTDcT5nva0FlD https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Cie5mY2GKRNhk2blALXiA8qjr1sHfdKX
 

adamss24

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audi a4 2.5 tdi 98 quatrro 6speed
The issue is I swap the car I haven't been able to get it running the injection pump on it was also brand new but this motor sat for 17 years with stale fuel ..... the car is throwing dtc codes for pump communication errors and measuring block 18 shows 0 pump volts also my ECU immobilizer has been deleted so I don't believe they require syncing the pump ???
Later AKE injector pump require immo matching, YOU will need immo code and follow the procedure from Rostech website... you should get it to work...
 

adamss24

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audi a4 2.5 tdi 98 quatrro 6speed
What year is your allroad ? If measuring blocks 18 show 0 volts in field two then the immo on the pump is active. I suggest you look in measuring blocks 50 to see if the immo is active... try and get something cheap like vag tacho or supervag tool reader and read the immo in the instrument cluster, then follow the procedure in Ross tech wiki on fuel pump matching...
 

Machineman

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The issue is the car swapped so the issue is ecu doesn't match the cluster anyways I have all the tools you're speaking of and I have all the skcpins as well we allroad is a 2005 ecu is 2002
 

adamss24

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Try it, as I said, use the pump swapping/ecu swapping tutorial from rosstecb wiki. Plenty info there. I think you did not transfer the vin tot the new ecu and thus the pump info doesn’t match the ecu info !
 

adamss24

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audi a4 2.5 tdi 98 quatrro 6speed
Try it, as I said, use the pump swapping/ecu swapping tutorial from rosstecb wiki. Plenty info there. I think you did not transfer the vin tot the new ecu and thus the pump info doesn’t match the ecu info !
 
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