BEW perfect daily turbo ?'s GTB,GTC,GTD

Been doing plenty of reading on here and would like some input on best turbo considering my goals. Lots of posts on "what turbo should I run" but turbo technology ..and modders discoveries.. tend to evolve fairly quickly every few months as new OEM hardware is released into the market and experimented with.

So far, as of today (mid-2015) the top contenders for my goals stated below appear to be;
1) GTB2056VL w/ Kinugawa billet wheel (thx Alcaid)
2) GTC1444VZ (thx for the excellent review FUB)
3) GTC1549VZ (CR170/177)
4) GTD1449VZ (CR185)
5) GTD1549VZ (CR184, application ?)
6) GTD1752VRK (CR187/190, BMW X3d, 2.0d)

I was set on the GTB2056VL & wheel, but then began leaning toward the GTD1449VZ due to all the technological advances. However, Honeywell's tech info recommends the GTD17 series for the 1.9-2.0 liter size engines ..even though VW installs the GTD14 series on their new 2.0d engines (??).

Latest "D" generation = extended tip, 850C/1500F sustained egt's, billet wheel, ceramic bearing, "internal" stop screw (sounds like a pain to adjust).

Im not worried about vacuum converting, exh. manifolds, or oil/drain lines, these can all be welded or fabbed up without too much trouble.

Tools
2005 BEW PD Jetta/Golf
Colt Stage II
DLC1019 nozzles
2.5" FMIC
PD150 intake (retained ASV, ditched the EGR & cooler), *SDI "scroll" intake is also an option - I have both.
3" DP & exhaust, hollowed out Cat. with relatively quiet muffler (for somewhat stock appearance and sound).
Tune: undetermined yet. Probably Malone, Kerma etc. - will choose after turbo selection.
DRW 6 speed or stock 02M with .658 5th gear mod. (on the fence here).

Goals
50+mpg steady highway @ ~1800rpm, 42-48mpg City.
~185-200hp, ~400ftlbs.
Max rpm = 3600-3800 rpm
very good power with excellent transient response/spool up and efficiency.

viking427 said:

5) GTD1549VZ (CR184, application ?)

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Not aware of this one.

TDIMeister said:

Not aware of this one.

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My Spanglish is off today. I thought they were referring to a GTD1549VZ, but it looks like they were referring to the GTC1549VZ in the Mk7 Golf "GTD" model.


.."No estoy seguro al 100%. Pero el tdi 150 monta un GTD1446 VZ que sopla a 1.35 bares.
El tdi 184 el GTD 1549 VZ que trabaja sobre 1.5 bares aprox. "..

I'm no turbo expert, but my gut says that you'll not make 200HP @ 3600 RPM on 1.9L without going compound or smoking like a tire fire while still retaining "excellent transient response, spool up and efficiency"

Get the compressor and turbine maps for your list of turbos, do the math and see which ones support 20-25 lb/min air at 3600 RPM and even begin to spool (not to mention transient response) at 1800 RPM.

Stay single and pick your compromise (wow, that's a loaded statement ) or go twins and have the best of both worlds (this just keeps getting worse )

GTB1756VK and don't look back. Should do 200bhp with virtually no lag over stock

Gtb2056vl moded to fit or gtb2060vklr, reasonable spool with good egt when pushed hard + loads of tuning potential once you got bored of the daily driver/stock power situation ! I would not bother much with billett wheels, i used many combinations so far and i don't find them too different from the stock cast wheels... If anything, all billet wheels i tried surged earlier than stock wheels...

Interesting topic!
A charging rpm gtb2060vklr ??

Thanks guys. Maybe 200hp at 3600-3800 rpm is a bit of a "lofty" goal Im sure 180 would keep me appeased for a few months. I actually considered the GTB1756VK since its frame seems to be the swiss army knife (1756/2056/2260) of turbos with its swappable CHRAs and thus favored by tuners. My reservations come from reports the VK's spool slower than the VL's on the 1.9/2.0L due to larger trim. Ill have to review the feedback on the GTB2060VKLR again, I hadn't considered it thinking it was similar slower spool as the VK, but not as bad as the VZ (MB 320). Its my understanding the billet wheels are lighter (benefiting spool) but with less mass sounds like they might tend to surge easier, good to hear some real world experience. Im pulling maps now. I was drawn to the latest crop of GTC/GTD units due to their (touted) technical advances, but very few reports on them yet from tuners, Im guessing due to them being relatively new and expensive for experimenting. FUB, twins sound perfect, but I heard they were expensive, tough on internals and reduce life expectancy/ endurance

Compressor trim does not influence spool time greatly.

200 HP @ 3600 RPM represents a BMEP of 26 bar. Not crazy high in and of itself, but given the shape of a typical TDI torque curve, peak torque BMEP will likely be north of 35 bar and that's definitely high unless tuned down. Meaning: You'll likely be limited by peak cylinder pressure with a stock compression ratio more than anything else...

Any of the listed turbos will support the target power; the question is what are more important factors you want and what is the nature of your driving habits - do you want to prioritize for headroom for further power increases in the future, or do you want fast transient response? Excepting the small minority of the time when you want maximum acceleration performance, do you tend to drive your car and use a lot of revs or do you (like me) tend to use the tallest gears for fuel economy? Your MPG target suggests the latter. I'd go with a GTx14/15 in that case.

DLC 1019's are also not the correct nozzles for a PD...

Thanks Miester, this is about what I kept coming back to, something in the GTx15/17 range. Tough to keep your true goals/needs in check with all the talk of big power, big turbos etc 'round here ..Ive let my wants overtake my needs in other motorsports in my life with mostly disappointing results after wasting too much time and money. Id like to get it right the first couple attempts this time. It amazing how much they're squeezing out of those little high PR huffers on the latest models. Nozzles - yup, notes got crossed. I plan on PP1043, I don't think Ill need the R783s ..yet.

It's much easier to tune down injector nozzles by physical calibration or ECU mapping than to tune up and force a wider injection duration than optimal.

I have not read any downsides of the R783 with regard to low-load driveability and smoke. That being said, I would go with the R783s to calibrate/map to your target. There are places where it is appropriate to have headroom for the future and others where it is less so. Again, know thyself.

One turbo that not on your list and should be a prime consideration is the GTB1749VZ from the 385 HP V8 TDI. Having 2 turbos per engine, each would therefore support 192.5 HP from the factory. They're not easy to find but do come up occasionally for sale on eBay, or one of our esteemed European vendors should be able to source one for you. Though not in the Garrett designation, it is reported to have ball-bearings too. I have posted elsewhere the P/N and engine code where it is used, try searching the "turbo technical database" thread stickied at the top of this forum.

Anyone knows comp inducer on the bmw 1752 vrk ball bearing? stock 190hp but maybe they where thinking on the safe side and it flows in reality 225-230hp without overspeeding with haze? (2.1 bar at 4k rpm on 2.0 tdi commonrail)

Rub87 said:

Anyone knows comp inducer on the bmw 1752 vrk ball bearing? stock 190hp but maybe they where thinking on the safe side and it flows in reality 225-230hp without overspeeding with haze? (2.1 bar at 4k rpm on 2.0 tdi commonrail)

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Contact IonutTurbo (AVD Turbo, Romania) on this board for dimensions of the GTD1752VRK, I think he's the only one that had/has one in his hands to measure up. These are not offered in North America so you'll likely need to get someone from Europe to inspect one. Report back here with dimensions if you find them, to add to the knowledge base.