Turbo Charger gone again??

Ford does JIT now to all major company's do that if they want to be competitive.

mikeyinpa said:

Not that VW has a massive problem with turbos and all of our Passats will need a new turbo in the next few days.

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Just like not all of the rest of the CRs will need an HPFP tomorrow, but that doesn't mean there isn't an issue there... No one said the sky was falling, but completely dismissing the issue sounds like something VW would do (not Fred's community).

People take things way too seriously over text sometimes, I swear!

Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2

JaredC01 said:

So if the turbo really is gone (and twice now), then VW has yet another serious issue on their hands with the Passat's CR engine... Twice now they've dropped the ball on the CR, first on the HPFP and now on the turbo. What's next?

I wonder what the chances of a runaway on the new Passat when the turbo blows? I'd rather face an HPFP failure with the car dying on the side of the road than a runaway engine from a blown turbo any day of the week.

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I'd say your entire post is, well, VERY serious. You're correct, all of us here DO take what people say very seriously, especially when the statement is as extreme as your opening sentence above.

No, the ISSUE is serious... As is the issue with the HPFP. You're the only one over the past couple of pages that's been taking what I say and turning it into 'the sky is falling' posts.

Stop twisting my words, and back on topic please.

JaredC01, my point is, we still don't know what the problem IS. The OP says he wastold the turbo "seized up." What does THAT mean? What caused it to seize up? There are many variables at play here.

We don't even know if the techs servicing this car are competent. Several posts above have already stated that VWoA replaces turbo assemblies w/o even bothering to diagnose WHAT caused the SYMPTOMS of a failure. The fact that the replacement turbos aren't readily available is a red herring, and could be caused by many supply-side issues...transport, poor planning, maybe even the fact that VWoA didn't feel the need to have replacement turbos available because of the extremely LOW risk of failure in this model TDI.

Yes, the ISSUE is serious, for the OP, and for any of us unlucky enough to have a turbo problem. The ISSUE is NOT serious for the rest of the 10s of thousands of 2012-2013 Passat TDI owners that do NOT have turbo problems.

This thread hasn't even determined WHAT the "ISSUE" is that caused the turbo failure in the OP's car. Until that has been properly defined, and there is much more proof of a trend, there's no way to know if there is any sort of design/manufacturing flaw in the Passat TDI turbo.

I'm sorry you're so defensive about your posts. I've only asked you to consider that your posts are needlessly alarmist...oh, and I never said "the sky is falling"...

Again I'll refer to the HPFP issues on the other CR models... Would you consider that issue serious, even though it's in the 1% range for all of the CR models sold between 2009 and 2012? Just because the percentage is small doesn't mean the issue is non-existent, or not a serious one... Clearly that's lost on you (which is ironic considering the second car in your signature has the potential for the HPFP issue).

For the record I never quoted you in saying the sky is falling, I quoted it because it's a saying... I stated that your posts are trying to make it seem like that's what I'm saying.

Please do me the courtesy of reading my posts before you comment on them.

There are 3 turbo "failures" (one of them a double failure), for unknown reasons, posted in this thread. Three "failures", for yet unknown reasonsout of 10s of thousands of cars on the road, do not constitute a problem.

The HPFP problem you keep referring to is completely different in scope than this, so there can be no comparing the two. The turbo problem you keep trying to justify will remain a non-problem until there are many, many more failures reported here or elsewhere.

I'm sorry you can't understand this. I'll try to leave you alone now, although I'm sorry this spurious discussion even exists, cluttering up an otherwise helpful forum.

The turbocharger on these cars is probably one of the most robust parts of this car based on its design simplicity and materials of construction. In the history of VW's turbos, only a very small percentage fail, and typically due to using the wrong oil or just plain wearing out. This situation is so far from the HPFP issue that it shouldn't even be thought of in the same context.

I was today at my VW dealer and asked service manager about the turbo failures, he said that he didn't see for long time on new or newer VW Jetta, GTi, Passat combine. But some old one have this problem due wrong oil or overheating components as mentioned above.

By now it should be approaching 100,000 Passat TDI's on the road.

phlfly said:

I was today at ny VW dealer and asked service manager about turbo failures, he said that he didn't for long time on new or newer VW Jetta, GTi, Passat combine.

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???? missing some words in your post?

phlfly could you please try and put some wording together in your posts before posting? Your posts are composed very badly and are difficult at best to understand. As you are an aerospace engineer this shouldn't be too hard or asking too much.

Done, sorry.
Actually he recommended to cool down before sit down for minute or less, just idle while you get yours thing together like cell phone and ect.
Also about that exhaust filter, so the car should be driven for 40 min and at least 60 mph so that regeneration process is started. If it's impossible than he said take a car for the drive on hwy for hour or so. Well it's a little inconvenient to me, but whenever there is.

Bottom line, physics dictates that turning off the engine in the middle of an active regen is risky business. I'm not saying that is the cause of the aforementioned turbo failures - who knows.

VeeDubTDI said:

Bottom line, physics dictates that turning off the engine in the middle of an active regen is risky business. I'm not saying that is the cause of the aforementioned turbo failures - who knows.

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Can't be that risky or there would be some sort of alarm going off to alert you to it.

Regards

Nebelwerfer said:

Can't be that risky or there would be some sort of alarm going off to alert you to it.
Regards

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I'm not sure if I would make such a blanket statement, while you might be right, it isn't a bad idea to let the engine cool or complete a cycle, it certainly isn't going to harm anything.

My 2005 SuperDuty didn't have all the complicated emissions equipment that modern clean diesels do but my understanding is the following:

1. Regen cycles are meant to clean the exhaust system and burn off excess waste that accumulates there.

2. Regen cycles are typical accomplished by the use of an additive and or heating the exhaust to much higher levels to burn off those unwanted particles.

3. During the regen temperatures typically go up 400-500 degrees in the exhaust system including in the turbo. (I could be a little low on these numbers.)

4. After a regen cycle completes the cool down occurs quickly because there is still exhaust moving through the system pushing the excess heat ouf of the exhaust.

5. Now I could be wrong here but I believe the turbo is lubricated and to some degree cooled by oil which is pumped through the turbo when the engine is running.

6. Shutting down the engine instantly stops this supply of oil flow and extends the cool down time because exhaust gases are no longer carrying away the heat. This causes the turbo to continue spooling down without oil being pumped through for lubrication and could lead to unnecessary wear.

The arguments go back and forth over some of these points and I'm no expert but I don't think it's a bad idea to give any turbo engine gas or diesel a few seconds to cool down. If it's a diesel in a regen cycle I would go a step further and allow it to complete the cycle, cheap insurance.

I also wouldn't have faith that the manufacture would put in safeguards for every system. It's been mentioned in other posts that putting out too many warnings and too many special instructions to TDI owners could affect sales.

CajunJosh,
Welcome to the club. I'll bet you're excited about your prospective purchase.
I think the overall consensus is that the Passat TDI is proving to be quite robust, but comparing it to your 2005 SuperDuty is risky, as I'm certain the systems are very different.
Others will weigh in, but one thing in your post is incorrect. During a regen on these motors, temps top out in the 1200f range. My EGTs, while cruising on the highway in 40-50f ambient, hover in the 600f range. For the regen, there is no additive, but extra fuel is injected in the exhaust stroke to raise the temp of the exhaust.

1200f degrees, in the very tight confines of the Passat engine bay, is indeed scary, if not for the turbo, than for the ABS unit which is close by. While I won't lose any sleep over it, 1200f, even with the gobs of air being moved by the fans, should be considered as a bit risky when shutting off the car.

Thanks TDI, I'm actually hoping to pick up a TDI SE with NAV next Friday if the numbers are right. Sad those as it means saying goodbye to my 2013 Mustang GT Premium

If your info is correct then my numbers are just a little off and the difference in your car between regen and normal operation is actually closer to 600 degrees. I know the systems are quite different, I just wanted to paraphrase my current understanding of the newer technology. Even with the big trucks people who used them as grocery getters without ever putting the engines under load (towing) often experienced some of the same problems with the engine not getting hot enough to burn off waste in the exhaust system and turbo.

Too bad VW didn't install heat extractors on the hoods like they have on the Mustang. Guess that would have looked way to aggressive on a family sedan.

...duhh...I just re-read your post. You never said temps go up TO 500-600f, but go up 500-600 ABOVE normal EGTs. Sorry about that.
Good luck with your purchase. I would recommend you make sure the tires on the car are compatible with the road surfaces around Austin. The OEM Hankooks are very noisy on anything but smooth road surfaces, and some dealers are willing to swap them out.

tdiatlast said:

...duhh...I just re-read your post. You never said temps go up TO 500-600f, but go up 500-600 ABOVE normal EGTs. Sorry about that.
Good luck with your purchase. I would recommend you make sure the tires on the car are compatible with the road surfaces around Austin. The OEM Hankooks are very noisy on anything but smooth road surfaces, and some dealers are willing to swap them out.

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I might look into that, I'm already trying to twist the dealers arm behind their back on the trade and getting the Passat's price down by $1000 so I might just have to deal with it. I wish I would have checked to see if it had the Michelins when I took it out for the test drive two weeks ago.

just drive easy your last few miles then shut her down normally. this isnt a BT (big turbo) audi or anything.

CajunJosh said:

Thanks TDI, I'm actually hoping to pick up a TDI SE with NAV next Friday if the numbers are right. Sad those as it means saying goodbye to my 2013 Mustang GT Premium

If your info is correct then my numbers are just a little off and the difference in your car between regen and normal operation is actually closer to 600 degrees. I know the systems are quite different, I just wanted to paraphrase my current understanding of the newer technology. Even with the big trucks people who used them as grocery getters without ever putting the engines under load (towing) often experienced some of the same problems with the engine not getting hot enough to burn off waste in the exhaust system and turbo.

Too bad VW didn't install heat extractors on the hoods like they have on the Mustang. Guess that would have looked way to aggressive on a family sedan.

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Your trading off your Mustang GT for a Passat! Do you need the 4 doors and a back seat I imagine? I am thinking the new ford taurus sho looks like a nice car.
As far as turbos cooling off I been waiting for turbos to cool on tractors and trucks with turbos since back in the early 70's there have been warnings decals in the cabs on letting the diesel motors Idle for a few minutes before shutting down after coming off load. But I am starting to think that these new diesels are a totally different animal. After reading some posts on here about how high exhaust temps get during a regeneration I am thinking if you do not have the scan gauge or phone app to monitor exhaust temps and regeneration and you shut down during a regeneration even after a few minute idle there is a good chance the turbos will be damaged if the regeneration has not finished. I have scanned back through the last month of messages on the new passat tdi forum and I found 9 turbo failures last month. If we are going to keep our passat I am thinking we will have to get a scan gauge mounted in the car to monitor the egt's and train the wife on how to handle the shut down when egt's are high. This really takes the practicality out of the car as sold with no warnings about egt's but that's just my opinion.
Still waiting for our Passat with 9,000 miles to get the turbo replaced been 2 weeks now. They didn't have a turbo in North America and it had to be shipped from overseas.

phlfly said:

I talked to my friend, he has shop and about 35 years of experience in the car racing, so he told me the conventional oil would burned and crystallize, becoming sharp and harder the metal, so it would eat the bearing, now days with synthetic oil, it does not happen anymore, so cooling turbo is good thing to do but unnecessary.

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And I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

VeeDubTDI said:

And I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

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Hahaha! Winner winner, chicken dinner!