Full loss of power after 40K mile maintenance

13TDIgirl

New member
Joined
Jan 27, 2016
Location
San Antonio, TX
TDI
2013 VW Passat TDI
New poster here but have had my '13 Passat TDI for 3yrs now. Never had any issues whatsoever other than a battery that died a week after its warranty of course lol.

This past Thursday, I take my Passat in for the routine 40K mile maintenance. They state I need other services not covered under my particular maintenance/warranty coverage, to include Diesel Fuel injection service, fuel filter replacement, and DSG transmission fluid exchange and filter replacement.

Fast forward to this past Monday, less than 96hrs after I receive my car back. As I'm driving my normal route, the RPMs shoot up to 6+, my car decelerates to 20mph suddenly from 50mph in traffic, and glow light plugs and check engine light come on.

Pulled to the shoulder, turned off the engine, and waited a few minutes. Restarted engine, let it idle for a bit (during this time, no warning lights on), and then begin to drive again. A half mile later, the same thing happens, glow plug and check engines lights again with sudden loss of power and RPMs shoot up to max. I had to do this 5 times just to pull in a parking lot and get myself away from driving in a 50mph zone going 15-20 so I wouldn't get hit.

Under the TDI goodwill package, I was able to get the car towed to the nearest VW dealership at no cost, which was the one that performed said maintenance listed above. They had a free loaner car ready for me and have now had my car for two days.

They state they are testing "fuel pressure." They all but accuse me of putting gas into the tank instead of diesel and that its my fault. Last fill up was diesel prior to my service, as proven by receipt records. So they're saying I could've driven my TDI for 4 days on gas and not diesel with zero issues until then? I can't imagine I would've made it THAT long without any change to the vehicles performance whatsoever.

So essentially, I feel this is their fault. The extras I paid for were fuel injection services. Four days later the fuel pressure is up and my car not functional. I don't find this to be a coincidence. I've since demanded full refund of the $658 I paid plus refusal to pay for whatever services it will take to fix this issue.

Any ideas on what else could've caused this? Or am I justified in feeling this is their error.
 

Ares

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2012
Location
Takoma Park, MD
TDI
2013 Passat SE
New poster here but have had my '13 Passat TDI for 3yrs now. Never had any issues whatsoever other than a battery that died a week after its warranty of course lol.

This past Thursday, I take my Passat in for the routine 40K mile maintenance. They state I need other services not covered under my particular maintenance/warranty coverage, to include Diesel Fuel injection service, fuel filter replacement, and DSG transmission fluid exchange and filter replacement.

Fast forward to this past Monday, less than 96hrs after I receive my car back. As I'm driving my normal route, the RPMs shoot up to 6+, my car decelerates to 20mph suddenly from 50mph in traffic, and glow light plugs and check engine light come on.

Pulled to the shoulder, turned off the engine, and waited a few minutes. Restarted engine, let it idle for a bit (during this time, no warning lights on), and then begin to drive again. A half mile later, the same thing happens, glow plug and check engines lights again with sudden loss of power and RPMs shoot up to max. I had to do this 5 times just to pull in a parking lot and get myself away from driving in a 50mph zone going 15-20 so I wouldn't get hit.

Under the TDI goodwill package, I was able to get the car towed to the nearest VW dealership at no cost, which was the one that performed said maintenance listed above. They had a free loaner car ready for me and have now had my car for two days.

They state they are testing "fuel pressure." They all but accuse me of putting gas into the tank instead of diesel and that its my fault. Last fill up was diesel prior to my service, as proven by receipt records. So they're saying I could've driven my TDI for 4 days on gas and not diesel with zero issues until then? I can't imagine I would've made it THAT long without any change to the vehicles performance whatsoever.

So essentially, I feel this is their fault. The extras I paid for were fuel injection services. Four days later the fuel pressure is up and my car not functional. I don't find this to be a coincidence. I've since demanded full refund of the $658 I paid plus refusal to pay for whatever services it will take to fix this issue.

Any ideas on what else could've caused this? Or am I justified in feeling this is their error.
You would not get very from from the fuel station if you put gas in the tank, let alone drive for days.

It sounds like your engine has a runaway condition. Could be the turbo, the crankcase is overfilled, injection service, ...


I'm not sure what the "Diesel Fuel injection service" is. Did they put a bottle of injector cleaner in the tank, or hook up a machine to the fuel system? Hopefully they did not use a gas fuel injection service on a diesel.

The fuel filter, DSG fluid & filter are routine at the 40k service. If the extended maintenance is not covering the fuel filter and DSG, I'd cancel it and ask for a refund. They are probably providing cheaper oil changes and overcharging for other maintenance. My complete 40k service was just over $600.
 
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kydsid

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2012
Location
Texas
TDI
2012 Passat
If they say its gas tell them you want a sample pulled from the tank under your supervsion, sealed in a tamper proof package and sent to a laboratory for analysis. I did that with a dealer (not VW though) and it shut them up quick. You cant analyze a fuel by sight or smell and say it caused a problem with the fuel system.

PS there is no fuel system treatment or cleaning prescribed by VW during the 40k mile maintenance. If that was done Id be looking at the dealer and asking what they put in the fuel.

And you could have a non fuel related issue. Ask for the error codes pulled from the car.
 
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13TDIgirl

New member
Joined
Jan 27, 2016
Location
San Antonio, TX
TDI
2013 VW Passat TDI
Update

Just received contact from my service provider. No error codes found. No verifiable fault. And they could not replicate the problem.

????
 

ben2mx

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2012
Location
SoCal
TDI
2013 Passat SE
It sounds like the guy who did the injector cleaning used the one for gasoline engines, therefore that would explain some of the gas mixed with diesel. Why don't they just drain all fuel and remove fuel tank.

I mean you've had the car for 40k miles, you have filled it up plenty of times with the correct type of fuel. Why would you do it differently?
 

Mark SF

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 19, 2015
Location
SF Bay Area
TDI
2013 Passat TDi
It sounds to me like a transmission fault. It's dropping into neutral. They should check the transmission fluid level.
 
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ben2mx

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2012
Location
SoCal
TDI
2013 Passat SE
It sounds to me like a transmission fault. It's dropping into neutral. They should check the transmission fluid level.
True. They could of probably overfilled DSG fluid on the transmission?
 

LRTDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2002
Location
Red Sox Nation
TDI
RIP 16 GSW... Just the LR diesel now
Or failed to refill it properly after the service.

And of course its out of warranty, just to raise blood pressure even more.

Lesson is NOT to allow the stealer to BS you into anything more than the manufacturer says is needed. Their BS is just profit.
 

13TDIgirl

New member
Joined
Jan 27, 2016
Location
San Antonio, TX
TDI
2013 VW Passat TDI
Update::

Service manager called stating he had an update. I requested instead to speak to the shop foreman who did the repairs directly rather than play a game of telephone and maybe not get the entire story. He said the official diagnosis was "air in the fuel compartment." That the car was functional at times but would decelerate when I hit an air pocket because it was processing air and not fuel. Now I may be a petite, young, and naive looking young lady and have little knowledge about cars, but what little I do know allows me to know this made zero sense to me whatsoever. FOUR DAYS of driving correctly so the entire fuel system is lubricated throughout with diesel and I "hit air pockets???" I about lost it. I have no filter and said a few choice words :D I also made the suggested accusation that maybe your technician did my fuel service with the gasoline injection product and not the diesel injection product as suggested by another poster. This got his attention. They emptied my entire tank, redid the entire fuel injection service with the correct diesel product, and refilled my tank to Full with brand new diesel. I didn't need that much, only enough to drive it to the Mercedes Benz dealership down the road as a trade in. Their horrendous customer service through this situation was enough to push me away

Does the whole "Air pocket" thing make sense to anybody? Or are the BSing me because I was a young looking lady there without my husband and they thought they could give me the runaround
 

jimbo1mcm

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2015
Location
CT USA
TDI
2015 SEL TDI PREMIUM Blue 2015 SEL TDI PREMIUM's Silver and Blue
I think you were feeding it fuel the wrong way with your accelerator. Do you "pump" the pedal when you are driving? Just kidding.LOL. They served you a load of BS on a platter!!! Glad you hammered them.
 

pparks1

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2013
Location
Westland, Michigan
TDI
2013 Passat TDI SE
In response to the air theory, do a search on whether it's necessary to prime the fuel pump when you do a fuel filter change. Some say, just refill the canister and you will be fine. Others are adament that air left in the system will destroy the HPFPs and cause massive problems. And the fuel filter is part of the 10k service.

I would be very skeptical of this fuel injection cleaning bit. Do not remember others getting this offered, I certainly didn't at my 40k.

Enjoy your MB, those things cost a fortune to fix when something goes wrong. While a TDI isn't exactly cheap to fix, its nowhere near the level of the MB.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
 

740GLE

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 19, 2009
Location
NH
TDI
2015 Passat SEL, 2017 Alltrack SE; BB 2010 Sedan Man; 2012 Passat,
Any air pocket would have been noticed after the first 10 min drive, not 4 days of driving.

I'm more concerned about the Revs shooting up to Redline, that's DSG issues right there. From the OP sounds like they didn't opt to have the DSG serviced, yet the cost for 40K indicate an expensive 40K w/o DSG service.

Also if the Glow plug light comes on, there is zero chance there is no stored codes, it just never stops with the dealer.

People wonder why dealers get a bad rap.

BTW how much you get for your trade at the MB dealership?
 

Lincoln

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2014
Location
Seattle, WA
TDI
2013 Passat TDI SE 6 Speed MT
In summary:
1) They told you that you need a service you didn't need (fuel injector service).
2) They did something that caused pretty severe drivability problems, most likely - it's possible something else went wrong coincidentally.
3) They attempted to make you believe that you had done something wrong to cause the problem.
4) They claim to have found no error codes, which seems highly implausible since the glow plug light was on.
5) They identified the problem as "air in the fuel compartment," which is obviously ridiculous.

Sounds like those guys are a combination of dishonest and incompetent. Have you checked to see whether there are any TDI gurus near you, who could take a look? Or another dealership in the area? I'd do that before trading in, personally, particularly since TDIs aren't doing so well on trade right now. I'd also get on the phone with VWOA, both to report that dealership and to see whether they may be able to help you get the vehicle properly diagnosed and repaired, if necessary. You're only just out of the bumper-to-bumper, and I'm sure they'd like to avoid losing a customer to MB.
 

kydsid

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2012
Location
Texas
TDI
2012 Passat
Make sure to take the Mercedes over to the VW dealer and show it off. Ha

Glad you got a resolution thst worked for you.
 

13TDIgirl

New member
Joined
Jan 27, 2016
Location
San Antonio, TX
TDI
2013 VW Passat TDI
"Official" diagnosis was HPFP failure so that was replaced. We decided not to trade in; Mercedes offered $9k and that was being generous because they said they aren't resellavle until the issue is fixed so it would sit on the lot for god knows how long. We are gonna sit on it, wait for whatever the upgrade is to fix the emissions issue, then my husband will use it and his truck to trade both in for a new vehicle for him.

I did do the DSG service suggested so I would like to think that's not the issue. But I also did the fuel pump services requested and look what happened. To me this seems like a dealer specific issue and doesn't taint my love for VW. I'm just a little bitter over the poor customer service and shifting of the blame back on to me.

Dealership stopped returning my calls about a request to be refunded for all services I originally paid for that caused these issues to unfold so I filed an official complaint with corporate against the dealership and their case manager is taking care of communication between me and them from now on because they may be able to ignore my calls but they can't ignore a call from corporate
 

tadawson

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2013
Location
Lewisville, TX
TDI
2013 Passat TDI SEL, 2015 Passat TDI SEL
That really does sound like goober user the wrong (unneeded) fuel system product, and tooefed your HPFP . . . sorry, I hope they make you whole . . .

- Tim
 

Ares

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2012
Location
Takoma Park, MD
TDI
2013 Passat SE
Mercedes offered $9k and that was being generous
I got that much for a 10 year old 4Runner with 100k. :(

Dealership stopped returning my calls about a request to be refunded for all services I originally paid for that caused these issues to unfold so I filed an official complaint with corporate against the dealership and their case manager is taking care of communication between me and them from now on because they may be able to ignore my calls but they can't ignore a call from corporate
File a complaint with BBB, any local or state consumer services. I'd also post an accurate review/experience on Google, Yelp, Edmunds, etc. Some dealers are very responsive to their online presence and ratings.
 

740GLE

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 19, 2009
Location
NH
TDI
2015 Passat SEL, 2017 Alltrack SE; BB 2010 Sedan Man; 2012 Passat,
Best of luck, sounds like you are on the right course!

Keep dealer and VWoA over the heat for what happened.

Air in fuel compartment, ha! that's such a good one.
 

Lincoln

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2014
Location
Seattle, WA
TDI
2013 Passat TDI SE 6 Speed MT
Almost definite they put gas in while doing the fuel injection service (that your TDI does NOT REQUIRE). My dealer (second one, after deciding first one was incompetent like yours - luckily I'm in an area with several VW dealers) told me that nearly all HPFP failures they've seen have been the result of gas getting into the fuel one way or another - they have the fuel analysis to prove it. Most HPFP failures stopped after VW put in the guard that prevents a gas nozzle from fitting into your tank, but that won't stop a truly determined idiot who works for the dealership.

What I think is fair in your case:
You pay for services that were performed legitimately as part of 40k maintenance (i.e. all but fuel injection service).
They pay for all subsequent repairs/parts/service/towing/loaner vehicle expenses that came about because of their mistake.

If they're smart and want to keep a customer, they'd also offer a big discount on your next service by way of apology for screwing up last time. But if you're smart, I'd look for a local guru instead, regardless of how big the discount they offer is.
 

tdiatlast

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 21, 2009
Location
Fort Worth, Texas
TDI
2009 Sportwagen (boughtback); 2014 Passat TDI SEL (boughtback)
I'm confused. How would a HPFP failure cause/allow an engine to repeatedly over rev while in gear??? There still must be something going on with the DSG, right?

OP: Once you've satisfied the $$$ and liability issue, I'd strongly recommend finding another tech to work on your car. While it's good you've got corporate involved, it sounds to me like you're still stuck with incompetent service.
 
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nord

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2010
Location
Southern Tier NY
TDI
All turned back to VW. Now a 2017 Hundai Tuscon. Not a single squalk in 10k miles.
Sometimes I wonder... Is there a chance that some dealerships hire from a pool of Quick Lube rejects?
 

kydsid

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2012
Location
Texas
TDI
2012 Passat
Sometimes I wonder... Is there a chance that some dealerships hire from a pool of Quick Lube rejects?
Oil change tech at a desler is the same pool. I was one once. Fluids, wiper replacement, tires etc. Put it this way you had to have seniority to be the shuttle van driver.
 

jimbo1mcm

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2015
Location
CT USA
TDI
2015 SEL TDI PREMIUM Blue 2015 SEL TDI PREMIUM's Silver and Blue
Oil change tech at a desler is the same pool. I was one once. Fluids, wiper replacement, tires etc. Put it this way you had to have seniority to be the shuttle van driver.
Maybe someday they can work up to using a torque wrench.
 
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