01 jetta no start any help to narrow this down appreciated

speedy223

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2015
Location
east texas
TDI
alh tdi new beetle 98, alh jetta 01, bew golf 04 all 5spds
first time trying to start this thing. open to any suggestions. really want it out of my shop, preferably running. :)

car was bought as is with spun belt. old engine removed, installed spare engine
that I had that I did bearings (rod) on from one I took out of my wifes new beetle. Has new head gasket, new timing belt and all the goods, injectors from the original 01 jetta and pump from the new beetle which is a 10 mm.

I am open to any suggestions, but let me say this; I timed it with the cam lock, the flywheel mark and the pump pin, I did it on the bench in my shop before I installed the engine. I was able to put the plate onto cam, the pin into pump and the mark on flywheel lined up fine. I turned motor several times and checked it again and I was able to do all of the above again.

I get a click on the solenoid on the fuel pump when I turn key on. yes the car sat forever before I got around to putting engine in it. probably about a year.

I put some more fuel in the tank, filled the filter after changing it, changed the return tee with new o rings, have fuel coming out of the number one line when I crack it .

glow plug line comes on and goes off. car turns over fine and I just put in a new starter since I stole that one's while it was sitting, has nice battery, wont start. just turns over.

I cant imagine it is out of time since I checked it several times and I KNOW I had the pump pin in the hole not out of it the cam lock plate slides right in, and mark on flywheel perfect , but the fact remains the car wont start.

what could be causing this? if I have fuel at injectors when I crack them does it mean that it has to be timing or could this still be some weird electrical thing.

does fuel at injectors and car turning over when I crank it rule out any electrical problems that could cause no start?

fuel system was bone dry but I have messed with everything that could cause this so it is a mighty can of worms , just trying to narrow down my focus.

any advice gladly taken
 

STDOUBT

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 30, 2007
Location
Portland, effing Oregon
TDI
dos jettas
Wild first thought: have you checked/verified compression on all 4?
Don't want to second guess your work, but that's kind of why you're
posting so..
 

speedy223

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2015
Location
east texas
TDI
alh tdi new beetle 98, alh jetta 01, bew golf 04 all 5spds
no, I have not. lets talk about why though as a learning curve.

engine was previously running, suspected a minor head gasket leak but was running great. noted rod bearings were a touch worn. had an auto beetle I bought with bad transmission and 200k so I used that engine to put in the car it came from and set this one aside to go into the one I am using it for now. engine was running fine though, was only pulled for rod bearing work and it got a new head gasket too.

would take me a bit to get ahold of a diesel compression tester. it was put together with a new gasket correct holes and was tightened per arp instructions in the correct order.

. I can eventually check it but that seems to be the least likely thing that it could be since engine ran fine previous to it be updated with bearings and gasket. however if you have a good reason why it would be likely to be a compression issue I am always ready to learn.


I was thinking something electrical or fuel but I have never had this problem, only time car has ever not started after timing belt was when I didn't have plug in the middle connected securely one time.


all the same I am open to ideas


specifically: can the ECU cause this problem if there is 12v at the pump and starter is kicking over and glow plug lights come on or is it strictly limited to something mechanical like timing jump or lack of compression.

I am just looking for ways to narrow down which way I go as I troubleshoot this no start.

fuel seems to be coming out of injectors fine when cracked but I have never seen these injectors run, they are from an engine I have never seen start, same with ecu and lines and fuses and all that. only thing I have seen run is the engine block which is going in. and that had a new timing belt and head gasket and rod bearings put on.

clearly I have changed multiple things that could cause this on my known good engine and who knows what was wrong with car body and wiring that engine went into.


I would just like to get some tips on which way to go. I am pretty confident in my timing belt and my head gasket job but I am willing to check out whatever, admittedly I am human and not trained to this job just do it for mostly fun. I was hoping for ways to learn how to troubleshoot this problem efficiently using the facts I have like 12v at pump, fuel out injectors when cracked, lights on dash etc.
would like to learn a bit as I troubleshoot, nothing like a problem to really learn something that you wont learn as long as car is behaving itself. this is kind of new to me. never had a car not start after timing belt job before.

I will check compression when able to if I have not run into a solution before then and I appreciate the suggestion but just not able to check right this moment so still looking for more direct ways to tell which way to go in my troubleshooting if someone can spare a thought

will double check timing next day off as well just to make sure but I know it was good when I put the belt one and it was good when I rechecked after a few rotations and I did that twice just to be sure. still anything could happen.
 
Last edited:

KLXD

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 22, 2009
Location
Lompoc, CA
TDI
'98, '2 Jettas
Sounds like you only bled #1 injector. Why not all four?

Getting any smoke out the exhaust? If you're getting fuel to the injectors you should be getting some white smoke even if it doesn't fire.
 

whitedog

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2004
Location
Bend, Oregon
TDI
2004 Jetta that I fill by myself
Is that fuel squirting out or just kind of meh? As KLXD mentioned, bleed all four injectors and make sure you are getting a good squirt of fuel out of each. If you good squirting, pull the glow plugs and crank. You should see a mist of fuel coming from the GP holes. If you have squirting at the lines but no mist, your injectors aren't working.
 

Vince Waldon

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 25, 2009
Location
Edmonton AB Canada
TDI
2001 ALH Jetta, 2003 ALH Wagon, 2005 BEW Wagon
I timed it with the cam lock, the flywheel mark and the pump pin, I did it on the bench in my shop before I installed the engine.
Just checking the obvious: the engine was bolted to the transmission on the bench when you did the timing belt?
 

Nevada_TDI

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 17, 2008
Location
Reno, sort of...
TDI
2001 Jetta TDI
I was going to ask did you vacuum bleed the pump at the return fitting? As far as fuel goes, a dribble at the injectors is not enough fuel, with a nut cracked there should almost be fuel fog under the hood from the pressure.
 

babydoll

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 20, 2009
Location
wv
TDI
01 jetta 5 spd 01 golf 5 spd cruze diesel 9 spd auto 17
just got a 01 running someone had converted from auto to 5 spd , they had put a aftermarket flywheel on it that had odd ball marks I used the wrong mark the first time, but checked again and found the right one, it fired right up, it turned thru buy hand but wdnt run.
 

speedy223

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2015
Location
east texas
TDI
alh tdi new beetle 98, alh jetta 01, bew golf 04 all 5spds
thanks for all the replies. I have been at work all day and have to work tomorrow and Wednesday as well but will try to check it a bit before I go.

answers to some questions. yes> transmission was bolted to the engine when I checked timing. everything done exactly as if it was in the car.

I did not vacuum bleed the pump per say but I have a 12v fuel pump I bought to prime an old tractor when it needed it and I hooked it up to fuel filter or past I should say and pulled fuel up and then to the return line and pushed some back. have done it before very successfully.

it seemed like it was spraying out pretty good from number one and yes I actually cracked number two and three briefly as well to ensure they were getting wet. I need to have someone crank it for me so I can watch them have been working on my own so cant really see what is happening.

I did not see white smoke from the exhaust. wondering if my injectors are any good, I have never seen these work.

thinking about borrowing the injectors from my back up jetta that is currently parked waiting for a timing belt but I know runs and drives fine to see if it makes any difference.

next step I guess will be to re recheck timing and maybe compression. but first I will try removing glow plugs and see how spray looks etc as suggested.

I will hopefully have enough time in the morning to pull glow plugs and look for the mist to see if it is enough fuel coming out as whitedog suggested I will add that to my list of ways to check fueling. thanks for the tip.

I will report back with results. thanks for all the help. I have never had this much trouble starting one before but then again I have never messed with so much stuff at one time and had so many X factors at one time.

I am not a mechanic just an enthusiastic learner who enjoys it and my job is not this at all so any help from real gear heads is appreciated. I want to learn more every time I do a job and I have found mistakes and problems are some of the best although occasionally costly teachers.

thanks for all the help. keep the advice coming please I will report back as able with what I have found and definitely when I fix it.

one last question for the night: if it it is getting fuel at least in some way at the injectors can it be any kind of fuse or computer issue or is that completely ruled out once I can prove it is getting fuel past the pump : ie solenoid is being tripped with 12v on the pump? I mean it is that simple right, if there is fuel present it has to be either not enough to fire the injector due to air or bad injector or the timing is off or the compression is off...no other thing could possible cause this?

thanks again
 
Last edited:

hollowhead

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 24, 2015
Location
cope,sc
TDI
2003 Jetta wagon 5 speed(2)2000 vw beetle tdi automatic
Have you tried adjusting the timing on the IP?
 

speedy223

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2015
Location
east texas
TDI
alh tdi new beetle 98, alh jetta 01, bew golf 04 all 5spds
yes, I did crank it all the way advanced and then as a last ditch effort all the way retarded with no crank or change. I centered it again. I think it is just spitting too much air still, I have not yet looked at it, work has been a real bear and I still have to work tomorrow but I am going to hit it hard Thursday and post an update.

I will be pulling glowplugs and checking for mist and all that good stuff and will post updates
meanwhile thanks for all the tips, please keep them coming
 

hollowhead

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 24, 2015
Location
cope,sc
TDI
2003 Jetta wagon 5 speed(2)2000 vw beetle tdi automatic
You may be moving it too much. A little movement makes a lot of difference.
 

Prairieview

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 9, 2017
Location
Too close to Sturgis 'ithole
TDI
Two 2000 Beetles, 2002 Jetta, 2002 gas avh Jetta, fleet of older 1.6 turbo and non's
Personally, I'd set aside my "....I know I did this and that right....." thing and take time to ensure the pump timing pin is INDEED going into the hole.

I had timed the earlier 1.6 diesels for many years when I performed my first alh time job. I could not get the Beetle to start over and over. And, that was due to being "beside" the timing hole with my drill bit end which I was using as a pin (and still do).

The pin will "feel" like it is in the right spot when it is not.....it can be beside the hole as there is a void in the casting.

I would release the tension on the belt and start over with the pump pin.

As far as priming goes, for many years (and the older diesels prime the same) all I have ever used is a very clean plastic tipped gear lube bottle (nipple-end style) and a piece of 5/16 fuel line and some rags for any spillage. I set the bottle with diesel and some dexron mix on the upper fender/shock area with rags under it (make sure no rags can fall into the belts) and attach the fuel hose to the "input" side port of the filter.

If you are starting with a new empty filter, you simply squeeze the bottle (not too hard, Godzilla) and you will feel the filter fill and the bottle will need replenishing.

Once the filter is filled, I go put the ignition key on to open the pump solenoid....apply some long term squeeze to the bottle.......loosen the fuel delivery hard lines (eye wear....gloves) and roll over the engine and get a mess which will need to be cleaned up with warm water and dish soap later once the engine is up and running.

Refill my gear lube bottle for the last time, and start the car and watch the gear lube bottle collapse. Shut off the car, quickly replace the standard soft fuel lines to the filter.....and fire up the car. And, yes, I always give any of these VE pumps some throttle when rolling over.

This overly-simple way of approaching this works for me all the time and will continue into the future.
 

speedy223

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2015
Location
east texas
TDI
alh tdi new beetle 98, alh jetta 01, bew golf 04 all 5spds
sounds good, I will be checking this and several other things on the list tomorrow.

make no mistake I WILL be rechecking mechanical timing after I look at the fueling issue with some of the suggestions previously posted assuming it doesn't fire up.

I am not saying I cannot make a mistake however, when you are setting timing on the bench as opposed to in the car itself it is really easy to make sure you are going in the hole. I mean I could see it perfectly and my pump pin would slide right in to the proper depth, no doubt about where it was going, cam lock plate would slide in and timing mark on transmission was spot on.

rotated it about 3-4 times and rechecked with all the same as listed above, spot on.

that is why I am so confident about my timing but again, believe me I will recheck it if fueling doesn't fix it.

tomorrow I am going to recheck prime, pull glow plugs look for mist and move on from there.

will post updates

as to moving pump timing... I had it centered at first, no joy, advanced it all the way no joy, retarded it all the way no joy, then recentered it. still no joy.

has new starter, new battery. turns over neatly.

again, will update tomorrow after noon definitely will post what fixes it.

I have changed bearings, head gasket, has different injectors that I have never seen run and I have never seen this car run only the block I put in it from another car.

so many x factors present here and I am sure it is probably a dumb one that I missed as I went along.

as to the fuel it is old, it had about a quarter tank or less, I put in 5 gallons of new diesel and a jug of diesel Kleen since I figured it needed refreshing, I will examine it in more detail if I cant get it to crank tomorrow.

thanks again for all the help.
 

Franko6

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
May 7, 2005
Location
Sw Missouri
TDI
Jetta, 99, Silver`
When working on a pump that sat for a long time, we empty the pump of fuel and refill it with Diesel Purge. We have caps that came off of the end of the injection pump return line that fit in place of the injector lines, but you can reattach the fuel lines. After whatever time you have alloted (a minimum of 24 hours), we remove our injector caps (or remove the injector lines) with the glow plugs removed, prime the fuel filter and run the starter to pump all the diesel purge and any junk it loosened up out of the pump. Afterwards, wash the hoses off to keep them from swelling.

It is possible you got some goop from your old fuel into the injectors themselves. Before running the engine, the fuel lines and tops of each injector should be blown out with compressed air. If they are tested and either don't fuel out of all 5 holes or will not 'Pop', you may need to either clean or replace the nozzles.

Prairieview has a somewhat complicated method of priming the pump, but I'm sure it works. We use a vacuum pump, either mechanical or electric, and pull the fuel into the pump from the fuel return line off #4 injector, which goes to a banjo fitting on the injector pump. The return line goes to the high point of the pump, so it should remove all the air from the fuel filter and pump. In order to suck fuel into the system, all lines need to be tight and the return fuel line from the fuel filter to the fuel tank needs to be clamped off, or you just draw air from the top of the fuel tank.

When fuel begins to bubble into the return line, your pump is full enough prime the injectors.

Then, each injector line should be opened up 1/6th turn and if you leave the glow plugs out, the fuel will quickly get to the top of the line nut on the injector. As each line spurts fuel, tighten the line on top of the injector. Look under the hood as you operate the starter. You will see fuel spurt up. If it doesn't, you may have an injector pump issue with a sticking or damaged Injection Quantity (IQ) device. If it's just a priming issue, the engine should now start, although long layovers can be very difficult starting.

In order to assure you are not underfueling the pump, loosen the one security screw and the other three torx screws that hold the IQ box in place. Two things; 1. We make the security socket from a 7mm 1/4" drive 6 pt socket. A die grinder and a carbide 'christmas tree' cutter quickly makes the triangle shape, for what many are charging $40 for... If you like, we will send you one, made to order for $7+ shipping. Cut and fit until you can tap the modified socket into place.
2. Mark the location of the IQ in relation to the body of the injection pump with a scratch awl, two marks in the front; two in the back as a reference from where you started.

Loosen the lid just enough that a small plastic or leather mallet will move the lid. Move the IQ toward the left side of the vehicle for more fuel; toward the right side for less fuel. If it stumbles to life, be prepared to move it for less fuel, as it's likely to stumble and miss-fire from excess fuel. At least, you won't be wondering if there is enough fuel.

The other concern is a non-operating power relay, or 109. These can die without warning. The year you are working with are prone to this failure, which is easily diagnosed.

Remove the positive (HOT) lead from the battery and turn the ignition key to the RUN position. With a short test lead, find the fuel shut-off solenoid on the injector pump's head. It has a single black wire with a nut that attaches it to the shut-off solenoid. Jumper the test wire from the HOT lead on the battery to the top of the solenoid. It should click. Now, return the HOT battery lead to the battery and within 3 seconds, touch the jumper wire to see if the fuel shut-off clicks. It should not click, as it should be already engaged. The reason for the removal of the battery cable is I am not fast enough to turn the key on and run to the front of the car before the 3 second default 'power off' happens to the solenoid.

The whole point: If you do not get power to the fuel solenoid, you will get a minor amount of fuel, but not enough to start the engine. If the key is cycled and for a 3 second interval, the fuel solenoid clicks, you have a failed 109 power relay and it should be replaced. The power relay operates both the fuel solenoid and the IQ. The solenoid is easier to access for the diagnosis. Failed 109 relays will leave you scratching your head.

Third check: The IQ operating arm... Remove top IQ cover and you can see the operating arm that sets the amount of fuel by moving a 'wiper arm' that moves the stop collar on the injector pump shaft. Same 'Key On', Battery Cable Removed' situation, touch the HOT cable to battery. There is a device that looks like a wiper arm that will shoot clockwise to it's limit, then return to a position about 1/4 open. This would be normal. If the arm does not travel it's limit, goes all the way back to the start point, or returns very slowly, you have an IQ device issue. Sometimes, it is not repairable. Sometimes it is gooped up and will not traverse correctly. If the IQ does not respond after cleaning in a ultrasonic cleaning tank, it is not generally repairable and it should be replaced.

Although it could possibly be 'old' fuel, we have started cars that ran normally with 5-year-old fuel with little concern.

Let us know if we can be any additional help.
 

speedy223

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2015
Location
east texas
TDI
alh tdi new beetle 98, alh jetta 01, bew golf 04 all 5spds
wow, that is pure gold. I worked on it today as much as time would allow.

I did the remove glow plug test and it did not look like much fuel coming out of the holes.

I reprimed it and it almost started.

then I got frustrated and rechecked mechanical timing and it was on. so that is a third positive yes it is on.

I then hooked my 12v lift pump up to it and ran hot to the solenoid and had the wife crank it.

after a bit it fired up and started running...yay...except she shut it off before I could check anything.

trying to not to cry I crossed fingers and attempted another start. battery was weak.
damn.

so put it to trickle charge and walked away.

went out a little bit ago to recheck it and pleased to note that the Bendix is now seemingly not engaging the starter. what I get for putting an Oreilly starter in it.

so I am done for the day, have to work next two then off for a week and I plan on getting this piece of german love and joy to start.

thanks for the tips on starting it, that stuff on checking the relay is gold.

I was lost on how the clicking was working, I could tell it was hitting but I was clueless what it was supposed to do thereafter. I will do that exact sequence on it next time I am off and see what is the deal.

I am encouraged because it did fire off and start to rev up but before I could make a basic assessment my better half shut the key off because I really can t say why... she said it startled her to hear it start...lol... I guess I should laugh at that,,, as long as she has been watching me start it I guess I should have been startled too...

I really like to learn and this problem however frustrating has been so far very educational.

thanks for all the tips. wish there was someone nearby who was TDI competent but sadly East texas seems to be kind of short of anyone who does TDI … if I had a cummins I would have no shortage of places to go to...

Frank I am going to be sending you a head soon from a block that spun a belt I will let you know when I am sending it..thanks for the tips on the car
 

speedy223

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2015
Location
east texas
TDI
alh tdi new beetle 98, alh jetta 01, bew golf 04 all 5spds
update:

got home from work, had new starter from exchanged part.

hooked it up, eliminated fuel system by hooking straight to a jug of fuel, put 12v pump in pull line of jug and connected it to help push it a bit and it fired right up.

thanks for all the help. I have learned some new things about this motor due to this problem. everyone's input is greatly appreciated
 

speedy223

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2015
Location
east texas
TDI
alh tdi new beetle 98, alh jetta 01, bew golf 04 all 5spds
it must not have been initially I sure thought it was.
i put this motor in a car that had been sitting for 15 months with engine out and i am sure that had a lot to do with it. first time i didn't work on a car that had been recently running.
think it was that and then maybe once it was my starter was failing and not turning engine over quick enough.

I put a new starter in after the Bendix failure and it fired right up but again, this was an OReilly starter...no OEM good one. have not been impressed with their rebuilt starters although on other vehicle types I have had no problems.
 
Top